TrueAce13 18 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Villain: 13/10/4 over a small sample. Seemed to be a thinking player been raising my blind when folded to him. Hero: Running 26/20. I've been very active raising IP, making 3bets. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopHero (BB) ($17.55)UTG ($10.55)MP ($2.90)CO ($9.20)Button ($10.70)SB ($20.65)Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q4 folds, SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.10, SB raises to $4.90, Hero??? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Villain: 13/10/4 over a small sample. Seemed to be a thinking player been raising my blind when folded to him. Hero: Running 26/20. I've been very active raising IP, making 3bets. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopHero (BB) ($17.55)UTG ($10.55)MP ($2.90)CO ($9.20)Button ($10.70)SB ($20.65)Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q4 folds, SB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.10, SB raises to $4.90, Hero??? "Villain: 13/10/4"This is an ugly spot. There is no "right" play here. Maybe just fold and play more hands. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 You're really deep, which makes this interesting.Based on the 13/10 I lean toward a foldYou've been active and it's BVB, so maybe he's just playing back at youI just don't know, in BVB I'd for sure stack off for 100bb but 175bb deep I'm just not sure... Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Easy fold imo. Someone running 13/10/4 has earned the right to bluff us. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 just too deep to be stacked off to a thinking player. I mean the only way the math is close is AK, AQ, and JJ are in the range and I just don't think so. I may consider even folding KK this is horrible for Q's Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 wow that's rly sick cuz of how deep you are. It's so tough because you don't know if villain thinks YOU'RE a thinking player, may consider you're playing back at him light for raising your bb so often. His 4-bet is so large, I almost feel like he's got a smaller to mid pair or AQ/AK more than KK/AA, and he's trying to protect against Ax and Kx. I think shoving and folding are both viable options... I'd probably fold in this situation. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Villain's stats may be meaningless, depending on sample size. Also, we are bvb.I think this deep, calling preflop and shoving over villain's flop bet on a non A or K board is fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Danege 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Its not THAT deep, only 170bb's... Link to post Share on other sites
Danege 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I think this deep, calling preflop and shoving over villain's flop bet on a non A or K board is fine.Is that cause he's going to call with AK? Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Stats are a little sick, but villain's range opens up enough against your defending range (since he's been raising your blind frequently) to make shoving profitable imo. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Is that cause he's going to call with AK?Exactly. Calling and shoving on a non A or K board is the worst of the three options imo Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think by shoving we're flipping a coin with a slight edge: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.244% 45.94% 01.30% 221837028 6288336.00 { JJ+, AJs+, AQo+ }Hand 1: 52.756% 51.45% 01.30% 248456028 6288336.00 { QQ }As we add more pairs (TT/99/88), the edge obviously gets larger. By the time 88 enters the range, we have a 60% edge and really shouldn't be folding. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 I think by shoving we're flipping a coin with a slight edge: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.244% 45.94% 01.30% 221837028 6288336.00 { JJ+, AJs+, AQo+ }Hand 1: 52.756% 51.45% 01.30% 248456028 6288336.00 { QQ }As we add more pairs (TT/99/88), the edge obviously gets larger. By the time 88 enters the range, we have a 60% edge and really shouldn't be folding.I dunno, I think it's a little unrealistic to say he'll stack off with AJs and AQo every time or even often. I don't doubt that he'll 4 bet them a good % of the time, but the difference between that and calling a shove with them is huge, and that's where we get the edge in this range from. Sure, we'll win a $5 pot when he folds those hands, but it's not the same as the equity we gain when he calls it off with them.On the flip side, if we think he'll also 4-bet/fold TT, 99, and 88 we *might* just pick up enough equity to break even.Also, just because he's been stealing doesn't mean his 4-bet is automagically adjusted to us "defending." It certainly gives us reason to 3bet with more speculative hands, but I don't think it affects his 4bet-call range at all. Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Call and get it in on non ace/king high boards. Link to post Share on other sites
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