Ace Queen

[meservery 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (Button) (t3510)SB (t4960)BB (t8958)UTG (t7445)UTG+1 (t4086)MP1 (t6430)MP2 (t3670)CO (t5295)Hero's M: 15.60Hero's BB: 23.40Preflop: Hero is Button with A , Q UTG bets t300, 1 fold, MP1 calls t300, 2 folds, Hero...Just moved to table. Nothing on UTG. MP1 seems a little active. Probably about 50 players left.

[BeaverStyle 1]

My default is to shove here... not having any reads on a big stack UTG... I might muck it... but shove is good imo.Folding is pretty tight, especially in $4.40's... I'd check the HH's real quick to see if UTG has been opening a lot or got lucky to win his stack... and make the decision based on that.

[MNmiracleCJS 0]

I certainly want to raise and the only raise we can make is to shove.

[Shark527 0]

I certainly want to raise and the only raise we can make is to shove.

I don't see anything else. I'd hope to pick the pot straight up pre that way.since ante's don't come in for another two rounds, you could also fold and afford to wait but overall I'd rather gamble here.

[qnshustler 0]

Hate those spots, I don't think either folding or shoving is that terrible...am I alone in thinking that its also not terrible to flat and see a flop since we have position and don't have any reads on villains?

[SwolyswoND 1]

I really really hate a shove here. Opener was UTG, we have no reads so the minraise could mean strength as easily as it could mean weakness, we have > 20 BBs, and we're on the button. AQ is the nut low if we get called. Why not just flat and play some poker? You're only shoving flop if you connect, and 9/10 times if you get called there, you were getting called PF anyway.

[Init2WINitHI 0]

This is a minraise from utg with no reads - something is hinky - sounds like he's either slowplaying something big or he has no flippin clue about bet sizing - more likely the former than the latter. I either flat and then see what the flop brings or fold (only because AQ is such a trouble hand) more likely flatting.

[TrueAce13 18]

I hate this spot b/c it is a 4.40.I actually would flat. And then go broke once the A or Q hits for TP

[rrumsey 0]

Hate those spots, I don't think either folding or shoving is that terrible...am I alone in thinking that its also not terrible to flat and see a flop since we have position and don't have any reads on villains?

No, its a close call but i think we have a big enough M to flat and go broke to KK or AA when we do spike our A or Q but it is close. Also this hand concerns me because not only do i wanna put UTG on a decent hand but the flat from 2nd position almost seems to invite a repop but its a $4 tourny and u have no notes so i say flating is the safest way to go.

[Dhall901 0]

Contrary to everything that I believe in that's good and holy...I have to say shovel this one.

[outsider13 0]

I'd prob flat here as well with AQ and go broke like TrueAce said if you spike A or Q as top pair. No doubt I'd shove AK though.

[Vinny_Barberino 0]

I really really hate a shove here. Opener was UTG, we have no reads so the minraise could mean strength as easily as it could mean weakness, we have > 20 BBs, and we're on the button. AQ is the nut low if we get called. Why not just flat and play some poker? You're only shoving flop if you connect, and 9/10 times if you get called there, you were getting called PF anyway.

I loved this line of reasoning, this is the perfect answer. I am never folding AQ on the button here ever, but we gotta take the flop, I don't think the fe of pushing and getting called by a random UTG is worth the risk.

[tbrick412 0]

shove shove shove shove you have a mediocre stack and you arent going anywhere fast and this is a good hand, especially over tard limpers in a 440

[qnshustler 0]

I'm glad to see others agree that its OK to flat and see a flop with AQo here. To all the shovers: given the caliber of play in the 4.40's, your lack of reads on the villains, and the fact that your stack size is still OK to play with against these donks if you flat and miss, I just think its a bit more prudent to flat and see what develops. With around 50 fish left theres no need to risk stacking off with AQo. I'd shove with an M<10 probably but not here.

[BeaverStyle 1]

My reason for pushing here is that there is already 825 in the pot (about 25% of our current stack), which we can consider dead money because the monkeys in $4.40's who play what seems to be every hand will almost always fold their trash to shoves. You really need to check the HH's in situations like this to see if they've been active. I suppose flatting is an option, but it opens up the possibility of sb and bb calling the minraise (which will absolutely happen here like 90% of the time, ZOMG POT ODDZZZ!), severely lowering our equity in the pot. Then, we're basically bleeding 2 bbs of our 23 bb stack when we miss the flop, and go broke the times we flop big but get out-flopped. Therefore, we'll basically need the "perfect" scenario post flop w/ AQ to really feel comfortable with our hand. We can avoid any/all of the potential post-flop marginal situations if we simply shove pre-flop w/ ample FE w/ a premium hand.I really think we need to shove AQ in situations like this in $4.40's for the reasons stated above.

[qnshustler 0]

My reason for pushing here is that there is already 825 in the pot (about 25% of our current stack), which we can consider dead money because the monkeys in $4.40's who play what seems to be every hand will almost always fold their trash to shoves. You really need to check the HH's in situations like this to see if they've been active. I suppose flatting is an option, but it opens up the possibility of sb and bb calling the minraise (which will absolutely happen here like 90% of the time, ZOMG POT ODDZZZ!), severely lowering our equity in the pot. Then, we're basically bleeding 2 bbs of our 23 bb stack when we miss the flop, and go broke the times we flop big but get out-flopped. Therefore, we'll basically need the "perfect" scenario post flop w/ AQ to really feel comfortable with our hand. We can avoid any/all of the potential post-flop marginal situations if we simply shove pre-flop w/ ample FE w/ a premium hand.I really think we need to shove AQ in situations like this in $4.40's for the reasons stated above.

AQoff just isn't "premium" enough IMO. If we get called we are crushed or flipping (I don't see a worse ace calling) and our stack is big enough and the competition weak enough that we shouldn't desire to flip. I do agree with some of your logic, I think the chances of both blinds flatting is probably more like 65-75%, but thats splitting hairs. What is the "perfect" flop? An ace or a queen and 2 bricks, no? If so I'd take a chance to hit it and if I miss and have to fold I'd be fine moving on with a 21 BB stack.

[Fade2241 0]

100% agree with Beaver and I'll state why.UTG is a fairly big stack. I am a 4.40 pro (meaning I've played prolly way more than anyone here at a huge +ROI) and when I have any kind of big stack I minraise hands like 10 9 suited all the time and people flat with hands like AQ, and I out play them a majority of the time post flop lmao. It's why they're so profitable, nobody is aggressive in spots where they should be. This is def a spot where we should take our shot to pick up some dead money.I bet if I ran this HH by Xmachine888 he'd say shove all day long too.

[BeaverStyle 1]

AQoff just isn't "premium" enough IMO. If we get called we are crushed or flipping (I don't see a worse ace calling) and our stack is big enough and the competition weak enough that we shouldn't desire to flip. I do agree with some of your logic, I think the chances of both blinds flatting is probably more like 65-75%, but thats splitting hairs. What is the "perfect" flop? An ace or a queen and 2 bricks, no? If so I'd take a chance to hit it and if I miss and have to fold I'd be fine moving on with a 21 BB stack.

There are some flaws in this thinking, imo. (not personal, just my opinion on your analysis) The statement "if we get called we're behind or flipping" simply isn't true in $4.40's.Besides, look at our play. If we shove 3500 here, the pot is currently 825, so villain will have to call 3200 into a 4625 pot. I mean, if this isn't a spot for a squeeze shove in a $4.40 w/ AQ... I don't know what is. Villain should be calling us relatively tight, but considering this is a $4.40 donkament, he's going to call us with more marginal hands, hence MAKE A MISTAKE, which is what we want our opponents to do, and do it regularly in $4.40's.After writing this response, I really think flatting is a bad idea, considering the potential pot we can win w/o a flop or showdown or potential double up.

[qnshustler 0]

100% agree with Beaver and I'll state why.UTG is a fairly big stack. I am a 4.40 pro (meaning I've played prolly way more than anyone here at a huge +ROI) and when I have any kind of big stack I minraise hands like 10 9 suited all the time and people flat with hands like AQ, and I out play them a majority of the time post flop lmao. It's why they're so profitable, nobody is aggressive in spots where they should be. This is def a spot where we should take our shot to pick up some dead money.I bet if I ran this HH by Xmachine888 he'd say shove all day long too.

You are a 4.40 pro and this is what you do with a big stack...fine. Why would you ever assume to know anything so specific about how a complete unknown plays?

[TrueAce13 18]

Beave and fade....all should know that I love jamming in soooo many situations. But here to a unknown donktard of a 4.40 I don't want to get too invested PF with AQ b/c of the reason I think we can flat and outplay our villain post-flop. If we bink and A or Q for TP, we are goign broke, no doubt. At the same time, we still have a decent stack for a 4.40 if we miss. There are also flops that can come such as KTx or brick flops that he can check and we can take the pot right there and get him off of AK or the same hand if he holds that. I know it is a small percentage of a donks range, I just don't think we want to get too invested with still a decent stack.Though---in game, I'm probably shoving

[qnshustler 0]

beaver, I agree with you also to an extent, but when you say "considering this is a $4.40 donkament, he's going to call us with more marginal hands" I think you are just assuming too much. We don't KNOW anything about the villain, and while I of course agree that the 4.40's are huge donkfests it wouldn't be wise to assume every unknown player is just an idiot waiting to make a mistake, lol. Plenty of decent thinking players like us play these too.TrueAce echoes my feelings on the hand, which, based on all the convo is not clear-cut either way I don't think. In my first response I said that I don't think shoving is terrible and I still stand by that, I just would still prefer the flat and try to hit a flop or outplay with position.

[Shark527 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP2 (t7170)MP3 (t5579)Hero (CO) (t2361)Button (t2405)SB (t1850)BB (t1090)UTG (t2970)UTG+1 (t2660)MP1 (t4705)Hero's M: 15.74Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A1 fold, UTG+1 bets t300, MP1 calls t300, 1 fold, MP3 calls t300, Hero raises to t2361 (All-In), Almost the exact same situation. This was only a few hands after first break. Would anyone also flat in this hand? Flatting and folding would still leave us at 2k

[Shark527 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00+$0.40 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP3 (t6920)CO (t6204)Hero (Button) (t4526)SB (t2405)BB (t1400)UTG (t10690)UTG+1 (t2770)MP1 (t2985)MP2 (t3580)Hero's M: 20.12Preflop: Hero is Button with A, QUTG calls t150, 2 folds, MP2 calls t150, 2 folds, Hero calls t150, SB calls t75, BB checksFlop: (t750) K, 5, A(5 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets t150, Hero raises to t567, 2 folds, UTG calls t567, 1 foldTurn: (t2034) 8(2 players)UTG checks, Hero checksRiver: (t2034) 5(2 players)UTG bets t1500, Hero calls t1500Total pot: t5034UTG has somehow gotten a big stack from card donk racking people. Flatting in position a better play for this situation? Does anyone disagree with the line?

[qnshustler 0]

Shark, I would make a separate post for your hands.First hand I could go either way depending on opp's stats, but would probably rather shove because 1)there is more money to steal in the pot than in the hand we started this topic with, and 2) the 2 mp's who flatted the original raise make it harder for the original raiser to call your shove / your shove looks even stronger because its going into 3 opps instead of 2. And on a smaller note, AQs is a slightly better hand than AQo.Second hand, I raise preflop to punish the limpers. As limped, you HAVE to raise much more on flop. Pot it, board is way too dangerous and the min bet mp2 can easily be a draw or weaker ace with outs against you. Shove turn if it isn't all in on flop already.

[Fade2241 0]

You are a 4.40 pro and this is what you do with a big stack...fine. Why would you ever assume to know anything so specific about how a complete unknown plays?

You are missing the point of why I threw that in there. My point is that people are so passive pre & post flop, they play their hands face up. Go ahead and play your hands face up, have fun being a break even player. I am all about picking up dead money and we have a great shot to do so here. When you have a clear cut opportunity to dictate the action and gain equity, do it! The 'ZOMG Oh no, what if he calls?!?' crowd will always disagree with me and I'm okay with that. I am just offering my POV as a successful player, that's all. Take it or leave it.