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The thread that I started about Daniel N was kind of awkward because 1,000 people viewed it in the first few hours, and nobody disagreed with what I said. Then Daniel responded and went on a tirade calling me "stupid." Methinks the poker pro doth protest too much. But even after that no one disagreed (how could anyone?). One of the mistakes Daniel made was in thinking that he could retain the status of elite poker player without participating in poker sites, online training sites, speaking engagements, and other publicity. In the post-Moneymaker era of 2009 when there are thousands of poker players with the skill to win a WSOP bracelet any player needs the exposure to get their name out there and the money for tournament buy-ins to have a shot of running deep. It is unfortunate to see someone sell-out in every possible way for a small piece of the pie when a few years earlier he could have done something small--become "the face" of a poker site for instance--and made the same piece. Longtime FCP members will remember that I repeatedly gave Daniel this advice, and he told me he didn't need to or want to participate in the commercialization of poker. He was a poker pro and all he wanted to do was grind. Who would have thought that a "troll" on the internet would see the financial landscape of an industry better than one of its most successful participants?gmanshade

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The thread that I started about Daniel N was kind of awkward because 1,000 people viewed it in the first few hours, and nobody disagreed with what I said. Then Daniel responded and went on a tirade calling me "stupid." Methinks the poker pro doth protest too much. But even after that no one disagreed (how could anyone?). One of the mistakes Daniel made was in thinking that he could retain the status of elite poker player without participating in poker sites, online training sites, speaking engagements, and other publicity. In the post-Moneymaker era of 2009 when there are thousands of poker players with the skill to win a WSOP bracelet any player needs the exposure to get their name out there and the money for tournament buy-ins to have a shot of running deep. It is unfortunate to see someone sell-out in every possible way for a small piece of the pie when a few years earlier he could have done something small--become "the face" of a poker site for instance--and made the same piece. Longtime FCP members will remember that I repeatedly gave Daniel this advice, and he told me he didn't need to or want to participate in the commercialization of poker. He was a poker pro and all he wanted to do was grind. Who would have thought that a "troll" on the internet would see the financial landscape of an industry better than one of its most successful participants?gmanshade
You keep saying the same crap without even attempting to back it up, so lame.
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You keep saying the same crap without even attempting to back it up, so lame.
If someone is more adept than I am at searching the FCP site just look for threads in which both Daniel and I post. I tried to do this and I come up with thousands of threads, which is not accurate. But I promise you that someone can find and post the relevant threads.In terms of my claim about Daniel N: it is pretty obvious that in 2004-2006 he could have easily signed with one of the poker sites, and that he could have invested in building the "Daniel Negreanu" brand rather than betting hundreds of thousands of dollars on prop bets and golf (especially when he is by no means a skilled golfer). When you look at his blogs from this period there are numerous blog posts in which he makes fun of Phil Hellmuth. Most people made fun of Phil for being self-absorbed and thinking he is a better poker player than he really is. But Daniel made fun of Phil for commercializing his name and trying to brand himself. I don't really have the time to wade through Daniel's old blog posts, but I would appreciate it if someone could post the relevant links.gmanshade
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I think this might explain it...Dear Phil, We have come up with a great promotion this year.Sincerely,UB marketing departmentDear UBM, No thanks, last year's "General thing" was lame, I got mocked by everyone. I'm Phil Hellmuth, I don't need any help to be made into a idiot.Phil Hellmuth ( winner of 11 WSOP Bracelets )Dear Phil, We understand that last year didn't work as well as we thought, when our marketing department decided to use a figure that would appeal to men born during the first world war, we never looked at the data that internet poker is a 16-28 year old male demographic. So this year we have gone with a Roman theme. Since everyone digs gladiators, and we realized that there was no amount of makeup or props that could make you look like a gladiator, so instead you are the RULER of the gladiators...cool huh?Sincerely,UB marketing departmentDear UBM, That is cool, I would be like teh dominate gladiator. Teh ubergladiator...very nice. But would everyone understand that? I mean how many people would look at my in a robe and some bougainvillea wrapped around my head and think gladiator? I think I'm going to pass guys, let's just have me drive up in some cool car or something.Phill Hellmuth ( winner of 11 WSOP Bracelets )Dear Phil, You do remember that you are forbidden from driving on any Harrah's property for life don't you? We would probably not be able to get the insurance anyway. How about if we sweeten the pot? What if we have 6 big men carry you? On a large flat board covered in blankets and pillows we mean? Sincerely,UB Marketing departmentDear UBM, Again, going to pass. I don't want 6 hot sweaty guys carrying me into teh greatest poker tournament in teh history of teh entire world ever ( which I have won twice by teh way ).Phil Hellmuth ( winner of 11 WSOP bracelets )Dear Phil, What if we add 100 hot near naked women and have them fawn over you for 30 minutes?Sincerely,UB Marketing departmentDear UBM, What time? Where do I go? and can we do rehearsals for a week?Phil Hellmuth ( Winner of 11 WSOP bracelets )

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If someone is more adept than I am at searching the FCP site just look for threads in which both Daniel and I post. I tried to do this and I come up with thousands of threads, which is not accurate. But I promise you that someone can find and post the relevant threads.In terms of my claim about Daniel N: it is pretty obvious that in 2004-2006 he could have easily signed with one of the poker sites, and that he could have invested in building the "Daniel Negreanu" brand rather than betting hundreds of thousands of dollars on prop bets and golf (especially when he is by no means a skilled golfer). When you look at his blogs from this period there are numerous blog posts in which he makes fun of Phil Hellmuth. Most people made fun of Phil for being self-absorbed and thinking he is a better poker player than he really is. But Daniel made fun of Phil for commercializing his name and trying to brand himself. I don't really have the time to wade through Daniel's old blog posts, but I would appreciate it if someone could post the relevant links.gmanshade
The old I can't back up what I'm saying so maybe someone else can...solid strat. Well played.It seems to me that Daniel was one of the first pro's in the boom to market himself and become a household name. I mean regular articles in mags and newspapers, Poker mountain, FCP/FCP pokerroom, Pokerstars, books, video games, dvd's, commercials, extra in movies, poker Vt. Clearly he missed the boat.....Your "numberous post" and "numberous blogs" without one bit of actually backing it up reeks of funny. By all means Daniel has poked fun of Phil in ways regarding over commercialization ie: Helmuth soap etc. But, I'm pretty confident you could never find anything where Daniel knocks him in a serious manner for branding his name.I look forward to your response hoping that others may in fact be able to find the proof in an argument you've simply made up.
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The old I can't back up what I'm saying so maybe someone else can...solid strat. Well played.It seems to me that Daniel was one of the first pro's in the boom to market himself and become a household name. I mean regular articles in mags and newspapers, Poker mountain, FCP/FCP pokerroom, Pokerstars, books, video games, dvd's, commercials, extra in movies, poker Vt. Clearly he missed the boat.....Your "numberous post" and "numberous blogs" without one bit of actually backing it up reeks of funny. By all means Daniel has poked fun of Phil in ways regarding over commercialization ie: Helmuth soap etc. But, I'm pretty confident you could never find anything where Daniel knocks him in a serious manner for branding his name.I look forward to your response hoping that others may in fact be able to find the proof in an argument you've simply made up.
I propose that we make a bet on the veracity of what I have said. After all, this is a gambling website. Let's say $500. The terms are:1) There exists at least one thread in which I offer marketing advice to Daniel, and he tells me all he wants to do is player poker. In this thread he must specifically quote and respond to me. And he must specifically say that he does not want to do any marketing/branding/representing poker sites. 2) There exists at least one blog post in which Daniel explicitly says that everyone else can do the whole marketing thing but all he want to do is play poker. In at least one of these threads Daniel must explicitly identify Phil Hellmuth as what he does not want to become.You can either PM me to arrange or respond in this thread. You should be aware that there is a difference between these scenarios: 1) the threads in question don't exist and i am making them up and 2) the threads in question do exist, but it is not worth my time to spend 2-3 hours finding them.
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Gosh how dumb are you people seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ugh I swear everyone is taking dummy pill... Gosh this is driving me nuts I feel like I'm in the twilight zone over here.
I found this DN response to Gman which is good enough for me.
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I propose that we make a bet on the veracity of what I have said. After all, this is a gambling website. Let's say $500. The terms are:1) There exists at least one thread in which I offer marketing advice to Daniel, and he tells me all he wants to do is player poker. In this thread he must specifically quote and respond to me. And he must specifically say that he does not want to do any marketing/branding/representing poker sites. 2) There exists at least one blog post in which Daniel explicitly says that everyone else can do the whole marketing thing but all he want to do is play poker. In at least one of these threads Daniel must explicitly identify Phil Hellmuth as what he does not want to become.You can either PM me to arrange or respond in this thread. You should be aware that there is a difference between these scenarios: 1) the threads in question don't exist and i am making them up and 2) the threads in question do exist, but it is not worth my time to spend 2-3 hours finding them.
So one post out of what 10,000 by him is absolute proof of his view? What if I can find two posts where he talks of the importance of marketing oneself? OR two posts where he speaks in general of the importance of marketing in todays poker world? Or two posts where he markets himself? Do my two posts trump your one post? Will that mean I win? Cus I'm game then.Same with the blog, out of thousands of blogs written you claim one blog will solidify your point so following the same criteria I've listed above if I find two blogs, I assume my two trumps your one so I'd be $500 richer. Sweet! No need to do this through pm's I'm an honourable guy. I'll be happy to follow your criteria if mine is also met.
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Really why don't you just leave Daniel alone honestly. Let him be. He just does not need your crap at this time. He has family issues to deal with, why should he deal with a troll like you. If he wants your advice I am sure he would of PM you otherwise don't give it. It's simple.

QUOTE (DanielNegreanu @ Saturday, June 27th, 2009, 4:47 PM) Gosh how dumb are you people seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ugh I swear everyone is taking dummy pill... Gosh this is driving me nuts I feel like I'm in the twilight zone over here
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I found this DN response to Gman which is good enough for me.
I totally agree, leave it alone Gmanwtg mase
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Irish guy: The objections you raise are valid. I bring up one thread that supports my position, you may be able to find another thread that tends toward your position. So let's simplify it. I will wager $500 that 1) you cannot find any reputable person who will state that daniel did not miss out on money in 2004-2006 by not signing with a poker site. 2) There is a thread from 2004-2007 in which I ask Daniel about marketing and branding and he responds specifically to me saying that he has no interest in doing any of this stuff. For me to win the bet this thread must exist before he joins Pokerstars and before he starts PokerVT.

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Irish guy: The objections you raise are valid. I bring up one thread that supports my position, you may be able to find another thread that tends toward your position. So let's simplify it. I will wager $500 that 1) you cannot find any reputable person who will state that daniel did not miss out on money in 2004-2006 by not signing with a poker site. 2) There is a thread from 2004-2007 in which I ask Daniel about marketing and branding and he responds specifically to me saying that he has no interest in doing any of this stuff. For me to win the bet this thread must exist before he joins Pokerstars and before he starts PokerVT.
YOu changed 1 completly. Most people would agree he could've made more money....2) I will gladly bet on this under the condition that even if said thread exists I can show evidence that he was already marketing himself that will trump said post.
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lol.i can't believe this conversation is happening.I bet durr scales down and plays lower than 200/400 hold 'em over the next year.Just stop posting people.

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The philosopher Walter Benjamin has an essay about gambling in his "The Arcades Project." In this essay he says that gambling "makes a narcotic out of time." What Benjamin means by this is that for the gambler the passing of time is transformed into a drug to be consumed in the present moment, and the activity of gambling is about the erasure of a sense of past and future. Benjamin had an extraordinary amount of insight into the human condition. One consequence of this particular insight about gambling is that the people who do this for a living--professional gamblers--do not exercise a proper degree of foresight: they seldom look carefully into the future. It makes no sense to repeatedly have a considerable portion of your fortune at risk on coin flips when you could easily secure a passive income from a poker site and similar market opportunities. You should realize that I am posting this information for members of the forum who idolize Daniel. Daniel N is an extremely talented poker player, but even for the small portion of forum members (J.C. Alvarado and a couple others) who have a chance to emulate his success in the poker world it should be recognized that you ought not follow in his financial footsteps. What happened to him in 2004-2006 is essentially that he just had to sign his name to a couple of papers in order to have an income of 2-4 million per year, and instead he decided "hell, i don't want to do that. i'll just go to the casino when i feel like it, make my money, and retain my dignity." Daniel always wanted to be famous--as you can see from his congenial appearance on WSOP and WPT broadcasts--but he did not try to cash in on his image until it was worth considerably less. Now that he is finally making all of these no-brainer decisions--signing with a premier poker site, starting a poker training site--it is at the tail end of the poker boom. For his sake I hope that something happens on 2009-2010 to restart the poker fanaticism. The best possible thing would obviously be the legalization of online poker in the U.S.

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blah blah blah
Again a point with out backing. Do we have a bet? I'm a decent person and am 100% to my word and will pay if I can't prove that between 04 and 06 he was marketing himself.
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Shocking that you issue a bet in here I compromise the terms with you and you sit in here for close to an hour without confirming. Shocking....lots of character.

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Shocking that you issue a bet in here I compromise the terms with you and you sit in here for close to an hour without confirming. Shocking....lots of character.
I'm not sure what to say to you. I don't care at all about winning money from you. If you can present any rational reason that Daniel would wait until 2008 to sign with Pokerstars I will give you $500. If you find the thread where Daniel and I had a conversation about the marketing of his poker career, and it is different than the way I described it, I will give you the same amount of money. Otherwise good luck to you sir, and enjoy your life. I can't really understand why you would be so aggressively pursuing this issue.
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I'm not sure what to say to you. I don't care at all about winning money from you. If you can present any rational reason that Daniel would wait until 2008 to sign with Pokerstars I will give you $500. If you find the thread where Daniel and I had a conversation about the marketing of his poker career, and it is different than the way I described it, I will give you the same amount of money. Otherwise good luck to you sir, and enjoy your life. I can't really understand why you would be so aggressively pursuing this issue.
He owned part of fullcontactpoker which did not fair well, and maybe he wanted to make sure that all of the parameters of associating with another online poker site were put well into place to ensure he wasn't liable for anything and that it was the right thing for him financially (getting the best sponsorship deal he could), especially with the UGMA being put into place at about the same time.You can ship $500 to guapo83 on stars.Thanks.
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