The Existence Of Morality

[brvheart 1,752]

What did you find out?

I didn't read it yet. I might have to put it off until School is out in 3 weeks.

[Don Giovanni 0]

i get my morality from reality. some people get it elsewhere, like from rapist priests for example.

[vbnautilus 48]

i get my morality from reality. some people get it elsewhere, like from rapist priests for example.

those are not real?

[Balloon guy 158]

those are not real?

When all you have is shallow logic, you just go for the easy insult...You should know this VB, your side is guilty of it the most...

[Randy Reed 0]

When all you have is shallow logic, you just go for the easy insult...You should know this VB, your side is guilty of it the most...

I tend to think athiest make it a habit of being more realistic about things.An example would be people wanting to lose weight or get healthy. A christian is more likely to pray about it, an athiest is more likely to diet and exercise.Christians are more likely to write things off as fate and fall back to ingrained religious dogma when dealing with issues. "It must have been God's will" "He has a plan for us, so it wasn't meant to be" They also tend to de-value life since the answers and comfort to everything is in death, versus an appreciation of life. Athiests most often will talk about how our memory and influence carries on after death as a way of explaining some comfort to Christians. To me it often obscures how we look at life which is much more important. An athiest is much more likely to value the "moments" and appreciate being "human".Christians are still fighting evolution and our common bond with the mammalian species on this planet. How can anyone can not see the similarities is beyond me.Monkeys planning and using tools. (The new Life series is awesome)

[vbnautilus 48]

How can anyone can not see the similarities is beyond me.

Of course they are similar they were built by the same designer. ( similarity on its own is not enough to make the case for common descent )

[Balloon guy 158]

I tend to think athiest make it a habit of being more realistic about things.An example would be people wanting to lose weight or get healthy. A christian is more likely to pray about it, an athiest is more likely to diet and exercise.Christians are more likely to write things off as fate and fall back to ingrained religious dogma when dealing with issues. "It must have been God's will" "He has a plan for us, so it wasn't meant to be" They also tend to de-value life since the answers and comfort to everything is in death, versus an appreciation of life. Athiests most often will talk about how our memory and influence carries on after death as a way of explaining some comfort to Christians. To me it often obscures how we look at life which is much more important. An athiest is much more likely to value the "moments" and appreciate being "human".Christians are still fighting evolution and our common bond with the mammalian species on this planet. How can anyone can not see the similarities is beyond me.Monkeys planning and using tools. (The new Life series is awesome)

I think you have it completely backwards.Atheist are more likely to be fatalist, because their existence isn't relevant to anyone but themselves.As such atheist are much more likely to functioning socio-paths who only care about how things affect them personally.Christians value others lives because they recognize that God created them, and as such they are of equal value in God's eyes.You are right that Christians are fighting evolution, and in the future they will be vindicated for trying to stop this bad science lie that has infected so many people. Of course you guys will come up with some other wacko theory to grasp onto to justify your denial of the truth

[BaseJester 1]

I tend to think athiest make it a habit of being more realistic about things.An example would be people wanting to lose weight or get healthy. A christian is more likely to pray about it, an athiest is more likely to diet and exercise.

This is a wide brush. This article agrees mostly with your assertion in general, but the 7th Day Adventists are getting it right.

Generally it was found that among the non-Hispanic Californian population, those identified as Seventh Day Adventists lived longer, on the average of 7.3 extra years for men, and 4.42 more years for women.Among the Adventist population itself, it was found that high physical activity, frequent consumption of nuts, vegetarian status, and medium body mass index each result in an approximate 1.5- to 2.5-years gain in life expectancy. Hypertension accounts for the loss of 4.2 and 3.2 years and diabetes for the loss of 4.6 and 8.6 years in men and women, respectively.

[BaseJester 1]

Atheist are more likely to be fatalist, because their existence isn't relevant to anyone but themselves.

This statement is absurd taken at face value. Do you mean to attribute actual irrelevance to the atheists' existence or attribute a belief in their own irrelevance to the the atheists?

[trystero 0]

I think you have it completely backwards.Atheist are more likely to be fatalist, because their existence isn't relevant to anyone but themselves.As such atheist are much more likely to functioning socio-paths who only care about how things affect them personally.Christians value others lives because they recognize that God created them, and as such they are of equal value in God's eyes.You are right that Christians are fighting evolution, and in the future they will be vindicated for trying to stop this bad science lie that has infected so many people. Of course you guys will come up with some other wacko theory to grasp onto to justify your denial of the truth

So I've never come to this forum, but I clicked on BaseJester's post on the main page because I like to read what he has to say, and then I read this post.WTF is going on here? Evolution's not real? People with access to the Internet actually believe that? The evidence in favor of evolution is so overwhelming as to be obvious fact. Sorry to disappoint you but Christianity will never be vindicated by modern empirical investigation.Are you sure that Christians value lives? If that's true then why do they overwhelmingly support wars? Who supported the war on Iraq the most? Evangelical Christians! Why are Christians incapable of recognizing this blatant contradiction? You cannot value life as Jesus had taught, he who said literally to turn the other cheek, and then go blow up other countries no matter what the pretext is.Finally, with absolutely no evidence you say that atheists are more likely to be functioning sociopaths than Christians. I'd be curious to know how you know this to be true.

[vbnautilus 48]

Ah, fresh meat....

[speedz99 145]

You are right that Christians are fighting evolution, and in the future they will be vindicated for trying to stop this bad science lie that has infected so many people. Of course you guys will come up with some other wacko theory to grasp onto to justify your denial of the truth

Yeah, Christians sure have a great record of being right when they oppose scientists. You've said many times that you do accept the proven facts behind what you like to call "micro-evolution", so...are you holding onto the idea that the whole garden of eden/god putting everything on earth pretty much as-is happened and then "micro-evolution" started up (so, 6,000 years ago)? Or are you saying that evolution has never happened and will never happen to any species on earth? Not that it makes a difference in terms of you being wrong, but I'm curious about just how wrong you are. The "evolution started 6,000 years ago when god created everything" thing is hilarious in its own way, though not quite as good as denying evolution altogether.

[Balloon guy 158]

This statement is absurd taken at face value. Do you mean to attribute actual irrelevance to the atheists' existence or attribute a belief in their own irrelevance to the the atheists?

So you are saying that I answered an absurd generalization taken from the worst possible angle and responded in an equally absurd generalization that I portrayed in the worst possible angle?I don't see why you would think that.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yeah, Christians sure have a great record of being right when they oppose scientists. You've said many times that you do accept the proven facts behind what you like to call "micro-evolution", so...are you holding onto the idea that the whole garden of eden/god putting everything on earth pretty much as-is happened and then "micro-evolution" started up (so, 6,000 years ago)? Or are you saying that evolution has never happened and will never happen to any species on earth? Not that it makes a difference in terms of you being wrong, but I'm curious about just how wrong you are. The "evolution started 6,000 years ago when god created everything" thing is hilarious in its own way, though not quite as good as denying evolution altogether.

You are going to have to define what you mean by evolution, because from this paragraph I think you are so confused that you see micro-evolution or the ability to adapt as being completely separate from the notion of Darwinian evolutions ability to change a fish into a lizard given enough timeOnce I grant you this insane position, I can never win the debate.So I cannot allow you to misrepresent what the meaning of evolution is.

[Balloon guy 158]

So I've never come to this forum, but I clicked on BaseJester's post on the main page because I like to read what he has to say, and then I read this post.WTF is going on here? Evolution's not real? People with access to the Internet actually believe that? The evidence in favor of evolution is so overwhelming as to be obvious fact. Sorry to disappoint you but Christianity will never be vindicated by modern empirical investigation.

?Why would I want to prove a metaphysical truth using a laser and a protractor?

Are you sure that Christians value lives? If that's true then why do they overwhelmingly support wars? Who supported the war on Iraq the most? Evangelical Christians!

Feel free to prove this point using any data you feel will work, this includes crazy atheist conspiracy web sites and or communist links from said sites.

Why are Christians incapable of recognizing this blatant contradiction? You cannot value life as Jesus had taught, he who said literally to turn the other cheek, and then go blow up other countries no matter what the pretext is.

so there is never a need to go to war? Ever?Even if someone invades your country and rounds up all the Jews again?Nope, turn the other cheek and hope things work out for the best?Either you have not thought this out, or you have not thought at all, but either way, you need to rethink this.

Finally, with absolutely no evidence you say that atheists are more likely to be functioning sociopaths than Christians. I'd be curious to know how you know this to be true.

Because when we have our weekly FS-P meetings I asked and over half the members are convinced that evolution is real and that Karl Marx was on to something...Now Trystereo, We all get a little excited when we come to the religion section, and sometimes we write things that are a little goofy that we wish we could rephrase later.I am going to assume this was the case with you and that you can come up with better arguments that present your position in a more reasonable manner.Otherwise I will have no choice but to respond to your post in a manner designed to cause mental seizures and guaranteed collapse of function reasoning skills.It's worked on crow and Randy already as evidenced by the post this tangent took off from, and I am pretty sure vb is about to crack...What a fun day that is going to be I tell you

[vbnautilus 48]

You are going to have to define what you mean by evolution, because from this paragraph I think you are so confused that you see micro-evolution or the ability to adapt as being completely separate from the notion of Darwinian evolutions ability to change a fish into a lizard given enough timeOnce I grant you this insane position, I can never win the debate.So I cannot allow you to misrepresent what the meaning of evolution is.

Isn't it the insane position to say that change can happen but then must suddenly stop at an imaginary line in the sand? Lots of little changes are fine, but somehow they don't add up to big changes?I think your acceptance of "micro-evolution" is really your achilles heel. The rational part of your mind accepted "micro-evolution" in order to avoid having to completely reject the logic of evolution, but you compartmentalized it away by creating this false distinction between small and large changes.

[Mills 0]

So I've never come to this forum, but I clicked on BaseJester's post on the main page because I like to read what he has to say, and then I read this post.WTF is going on here? Evolution's not real? People with access to the Internet actually believe that? The evidence in favor of evolution is so overwhelming as to be obvious fact. Sorry to disappoint you but Christianity will never be vindicated by modern empirical investigation.Are you sure that Christians value lives? If that's true then why do they overwhelmingly support wars? Who supported the war on Iraq the most? Evangelical Christians! Why are Christians incapable of recognizing this blatant contradiction? You cannot value life as Jesus had taught, he who said literally to turn the other cheek, and then go blow up other countries no matter what the pretext is.Finally, with absolutely no evidence you say that atheists are more likely to be functioning sociopaths than Christians. I'd be curious to know how you know this to be true.

Yes, but they have to try really hard in order to do so.

[speedz99 145]

You are going to have to define what you mean by evolution, because from this paragraph I think you are so confused that you see micro-evolution or the ability to adapt as being completely separate from the notion of Darwinian evolutions ability to change a fish into a lizard given enough time

vb covered this nicely. You can't allow for small adaptions without recognizing that in some cases they will build upon each other and over thousands or millions of generations result in...well, you know...lizards. And, eventually, 3800 (and counting) species of lizards. Anyways, you really didn't think through your example, what with amphibians being a very obvious way to see how fish could easily evolve into lizards.Also, "the ability to adapt", is not the definition of evolution, as you should know from Evolution Jeopardy. But I don't feel like teaching that lesson, as it's obvious by this point that if you really wanted to know how evolution works, instead of just outright denying it, you'd go read a book on the subject.

I think your acceptance of "micro-evolution" is really your achilles heel. The rational part of your mind accepted "micro-evolution" in order to avoid having to completely reject the logic of evolution, but you compartmentalized it away by creating this false distinction between small and large changes.

Mm hm.

[trystero 0]

Why would I want to prove a metaphysical truth using a laser and a protractor?

Those tools wouldn't make any sense - use instead a telescope and a particle accelerator. How else are you going to be validated if not through scientific inquiry? The Apocalypse as portrayed in Revelation?

Feel free to prove this point using any data you feel will work, this includes crazy atheist conspiracy web sites and or communist links from said sites.

It's not hard. Go to Google and type this in, "Christians support Iraq War." On the first page you get about 3 links to polls which describe conservative Christians as favoring the war on Iraq, over and above the general population.

so there is never a need to go to war? Ever?Even if someone invades your country and rounds up all the Jews again?Nope, turn the other cheek and hope things work out for the best?Either you have not thought this out, or you have not thought at all, but either way, you need to rethink this.

Never said this. I'm not the one who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ. You should turn the other cheek. That is what Jesus said. You should basically do what Jesus did, and get strung up on the cross if it comes to that. Incidentally you just parodied Christianity.

But I don't feel like teaching that lesson, as it's obvious by this point that if you really wanted to know how evolution works, instead of just outright denying it, you'd go read a book on the subject.

qforthetroothtalkorigins.org for anyone who's on the fence.

Now Trystereo, We all get a little excited when we come to the religion section, and sometimes we write things that are a little goofy that we wish we could rephrase later.

I'm not excited. It'd be like if I opened a thread in strategy and someone asked, "Did I play this OK," and he posts a hand where he had folded AA preflop, and some posters were confirming his fold by saying "sometimes you gotta know when to fold 'em." I cannot fathom anyone in 21st century America not believing in evolution - it's akin to not believing in binary code or in gravity.

[Spademan 94]

trysrero, the majority of the homo sapiens on this planet believe in one invisible sky daddy or another. Some believe in talking snakes and crackers turning into flesh, some dance with snakes, some think aliens came down from Xenu or something, some kill themselves, some think they'll get virgins if they fly into buildings....and it surprises you that some people don't "believe" in evolution? Let me save you some time here: you'll try to use reason and rhetoric and a condescending tone to argue with BG, he'll make a bunch of silly comments he thinks are potent, he'll make a few good trolls, and he'll toss in a good joke or two.This will go back and forth and you'll be right back where you started.Some peoples delusions are beyond any realistic recovery, especially through the interwebs.

[Mills 0]

trysrero, the majority of the homo sapiens on this planet believe in one invisible sky daddy or another. Some believe in talking snakes and crackers turning into flesh, some dance with snakes, some think aliens came down from Xenu or something, some kill themselves, some think they'll get virgins if they fly into buildings....and it surprises you that some people don't "believe" in evolution? Let me save you some time here: you'll try to use reason and rhetoric and a condescending tone to argue with BG, he'll make a bunch of silly comments he thinks are potent, he'll make a few good trolls, and he'll toss in a good joke or two.This will go back and forth and you'll be right back where you started.Some peoples delusions are beyond any realistic recovery, especially through the interwebs.

man, where were you when I first got (back) here?

[Balloon guy 158]

Isn't it the insane position to say that change can happen but then must suddenly stop at an imaginary line in the sand? Lots of little changes are fine, but somehow they don't add up to big changes?I think your acceptance of "micro-evolution" is really your achilles heel. The rational part of your mind accepted "micro-evolution" in order to avoid having to completely reject the logic of evolution, but you compartmentalized it away by creating this false distinction between small and large changes.

Ummm...how many changes can happen in 6,000 years?

[Balloon guy 158]

Those tools wouldn't make any sense - use instead a telescope and a particle accelerator. How else are you going to be validated if not through scientific inquiry? The Apocalypse as portrayed in Revelation?

I guess you got me, without a telescope proving God's existence, there is no way to really know is there?

It's not hard. Go to Google and type this in, "Christians support Iraq War." On the first page you get about 3 links to polls which describe conservative Christians as favoring the war on Iraq, over and above the general population.

I accidentally typed in "atheist support olive oil" and got 151,000 hits, I guess you guys are obsessed with Popeye?

Never said this. I'm not the one who believes in the teachings of Jesus Christ. You should turn the other cheek. That is what Jesus said. You should basically do what Jesus did, and get strung up on the cross if it comes to that. Incidentally you just parodied Christianity.

You will fit in wonderfully here, you don't understand the Bible, yet you think you are qualified to use it against people who do, because you don't believe in it.You are probably getting a number of "Please join our group" PMs as we speak.

qforthetroothtalkorigins.org for anyone who's on the fence.

Propaganda site

I'm not excited. It'd be like if I opened a thread in strategy and someone asked, "Did I play this OK," and he posts a hand where he had folded AA preflop, and some posters were confirming his fold by saying "sometimes you gotta know when to fold 'em." I cannot fathom anyone in 21st century America not believing in evolution - it's akin to not believing in binary code or in gravity.

I know, I was giving you a chance to fold before you made a bigger fool of yourself. I failed

[Mills 0]

I guess you got me, without a telescope proving God's existence, there is no way to really know is there?I accidentally typed in "atheist support olive oil" and got 151,000 hits, I guess you guys are obsessed with Popeye?You will fit in wonderfully here, you don't understand the Bible, yet you think you are qualified to use it against people who do, because you don't believe in it.You are probably getting a number of "Please join our group" PMs as we speak.Propaganda siteI know, I was giving you a chance to fold before you made a bigger fool of yourself. I failed

What's the criteria for understanding the bible? Can an athiest biblical scholar ever achieve this, or is it just for the faithful?

[Randy Reed 0]

Atheist are more likely to be fatalist, because their existence isn't relevant to anyone but themselves.

whoa, come again? I thought Christians lifes weren't relevent since they have to foresake this life and pray there is another one? An athiest is much more likely to appreciate the human experience for what it is. The moments and time here are alot more special since there is no promise of an afterlife.

Christians value others lives because they recognize that God created them, and as such they are of equal value in God's eyes.

Well, unless they don't agree with your Christian view. Then you can spite and murder them. Religon divides and separates people just like borders and incites them to ignorant behaviour much like Westboro Babtist loonies.