Don't Be Fooled By The Israeli Regime...

[owise1 0]

(owise1 @ Friday, July 24th, 2009, 8:36 AM)Firstly, where is this quote from? No dictionary I looked at has this as a definition.

page 4 in this thread, from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. it would help if you read what i post.

Actually, THIS is page 4, your definition is on page 2. I read what you post and I look at the page numbers too. But why stop at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, I am sure Al Jeezera (your favourite place to quote from) or Hamas has their own self serving definition.

Secondly, you really didn't answer my question. Let me give you an example of what I was looking for.

so i didn't answer the way you wanted me to answer, that's really what you are saying. why are u hung up on semantics?

I am not hung up on semantics, I am hung up about the truth. I asked you several times (on page two) if you are saying that Israel is a colonial, imperialist, settler state comparable to apartheid South Africa? And as ususal, you danced around and did not give me a clear answer to a yes or no question.

name='owise1' post='3173757' date='Friday, July 24th, 2009, 8:36 AM' Alan Dershowitz from The Case for Israel says it best:

again, he is comparing israel to one form of colonizing that occurred in the past. why beat around the bush and try to hide the current immorality of israel by saying, 'well, they aren't as bad as great britain was'?

It is not about being as good or bad as Great Britain was, it is just a simple fact. Great Britain, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Portugal, etc... had colonies all over the world, Israel does not. And like I said (on page 3) For whom were the Jews colonialists? Yet another simple question you fail to give a clear answer to. colonialism The control of one nation by "transplanted" people of another nation — often a geographically distant nation that has a different culture and dominant racial or ethnic group. (See ethnicity.)Note: A classic example of colonialism is the control of India by Britain from the eighteenth century to 1947.Note: Control that is economic and cultural, rather than political, is often called neocolonialism.The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third EditionCopyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Cite This Source Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colonialism

[owise1 0]

owise1 you'd be wise to quit trying to argue with this Hamas apologist. He's just as blind as any pro-israeli fanatic is. Neither can admit that their side has anything to answer for.

I agree. There are extremists on both sides. Israel has them on both the left and the right end of the political spectrum. And I know how these things on the internet go. One person has their opinion and another person has a contrasting opinion. Both can talk and quote all they like, but most of the time neither one changes their mind. But hey, I got some time on my hands so what the heck

[All_In 0]

Actually, THIS is page 4, your definition is on page 2. I read what you post and I look at the page numbers too. But why stop at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, I am sure Al Jeezera (your favourite place to quote from) or Hamas has their own self serving definition.

ok, i messed up the page numbers. EDIT: wait, it is you who has messed up the page numbers...that source was one of the first that came up when i did a search.al jazeera english is one of the most respected news sources in the world. it really is (look it up if u don't believe me), why do u allow yourself to be played by your american media into believing what they tell u about other sources?

I am not hung up on semantics, I am hung up about the truth. I asked you several times (on page two) if you are saying that Israel is a colonial, imperialist, settler state comparable to apartheid South Africa? And as ususal, you danced around and did not give me a clear answer to a yes or no question.

u posted:"The control of one nation by "transplanted" people of another nation — often a geographically distant nation that has a different culture and dominant racial or ethnic group"Mass immigration of jews into palestine, illegal settlements = transplanted...they are also a different culture, etc..the israelis have colonized what was palestine, and continue to encroach upon current palestinian land. clear enough for u?

[All_In 0]

I agree. There are extremists on both sides. Israel has them on both the left and the right end of the political spectrum. And I know how these things on the internet go. One person has their opinion and another person has a contrasting opinion. Both can talk and quote all they like, but most of the time neither one changes their mind. But hey, I got some time on my hands so what the heck

i realize there are extremists on both sides.i also realize how internet forums rarely change the other sides opinion.how would u feel if u were born in a palestinian refugee camp? or had a family house (for generations) in what is now israel, and u were not allowed back? or were treated like animals, humiliated daily? how about if practically the entire world sympathizes with you and realizes the abhorrent situation u have been forced into, but whenever the world wants to act against this injustice, ONE country always gets in the way and stops any action from taking place?i may not change your opinion, but i would hope that u at least consider why people around the world feel this way.

[All_In 0]

owise1 you'd be wise to quit trying to argue with this Hamas apologist. He's just as blind as any pro-israeli fanatic is. Neither can admit that their side has anything to answer for.

i replied to your 'assimilate' post, i guess it was too over your head for a reply.typical...all palestinians or people who support them are hamas, or their apologists...but hey, they are brown and muslim, so they must all be the same (except they are not all brown nor all muslim).

[vbnautilus 48]

Guys, the page numbers depend upon how many posts you have set for each page. Apparently someone is not on the default 20. Better to just refer to the post number.

[Mercury69 3]

Why doesn't everyone just admit there is no right or wrong and it's just a huge ****ing mess created to perpetuate destabilization of a region in order to maximize economic value for those who have "interests" in the surrounding areas. it's a classic case of "Hey, what was that?!?" while the pointer grabs whatever they can.

[Nimue1995 1]

i replied to your 'assimilate' post, i guess it was too over your head for a reply.typical...all palestinians or people who support them are hamas, or their apologists...but hey, they are brown and muslim, so they must all be the same (except they are not all brown nor all muslim).

Lol you ARE a Hamas apologist since you support their continued terrorism against Israel but you blame Israel for fighting back. Nowhere have I ever seen you admit that maybe Israel was right in any response to that terrorism. It's always their fault that their citizens are getting killed. Plus where is it that you find Al Jezeera is one of the most respected news organizations in the world? What world would that be? I don't know why I bother to even reply to your posts since it's pretty obvious that you are blindly supporting the Palistinians in the same way that Israeli fanatics support Israel. And since neither side will give an inch there's no point in even including them in the discussion. What we need are some cooler heads that can actually see both sides and bring most the people who'd rather just not have bombs dropping on them from either side together in a way that can actually bring about a solution. Unfortunately, the fanatics would rather just keep dropping the bombs or blowing themselves up on buses.

[All_In 0]

Guys, the page numbers depend upon how many posts you have set for each page. Apparently someone is not on the default 20. Better to just refer to the post number.

LOL, i did not know that.

[All_In 0]

Lol you ARE a Hamas apologist since you support their continued terrorism against Israel but you blame Israel for fighting back. Nowhere have I ever seen you admit that maybe Israel was right in any response to that terrorism. It's always their fault that their citizens are getting killed. Plus where is it that you find Al Jezeera is one of the most respected news organizations in the world? What world would that be? I don't know why I bother to even reply to your posts since it's pretty obvious that you are blindly supporting the Palistinians in the same way that Israeli fanatics support Israel. And since neither side will give an inch there's no point in even including them in the discussion. What we need are some cooler heads that can actually see both sides and bring most the people who'd rather just not have bombs dropping on them from either side together in a way that can actually bring about a solution. Unfortunately, the fanatics would rather just keep dropping the bombs or blowing themselves up on buses.

why hamas and not the PLO, al-aqsa martyrs' brigades, PFLP, or DFLP? That right there shows your ignorance.it is the palestinians who are fighting back, not israel. israel has broken the peace OVERWHELMINGLY more so than the palestinians (look it up).if a group broke into your home and took it over, placing your family in the backyard under constant guard and telling you that you cannot leave, you cannot bring anything in except the barest of supplies, and then slowly but surely encroaching upon what little land u have, would that group be 'right' in killing your family members who try to retake what was theirs? would they be 'right' in taking over your house in the first place? that is why i have not mentioned israel being 'right'.As for Al-Jazeera, look it up. It's not that hard, there is this thing called the interwebs.israel doesn't want the current situation to end, in fact they aim to tip the balance much more in their favour. it is the zionists goal to create a large, 'greater' israel. this is not up for debate, it has been clearly mentioned throughout israel's history. they are currently pressuring palestinians to give up and leave, just as they did to the ones that were living in what is now israel (along with massacring them) when israel was in the process of being created.u should really educate yourself on the topic, rather than just go by what u have been told to think and what u believe is right (even though u do not have the facts). again, the internet is a great resource. u say we need cooler heads to see both sides, but i do not see u doing that.what right does israel have to take over palestinian lands, other than what is written in their book of fables, written over 2000 yrs ago? answer me that and i may start to see their side.

[All_In 0]

Why doesn't everyone just admit there is no right or wrong and it's just a huge ****ing mess created to perpetuate destabilization of a region in order to maximize economic value for those who have "interests" in the surrounding areas. it's a classic case of "Hey, what was that?!?" while the pointer grabs whatever they can.

i can see some truth to what u have said...

[Nimue1995 1]

I will never agree that violence is the answer no matter which side perpetrates it. If all you read is Al Jezeera then you're getting a very slanted view no matter what you might think. I never said that everything Israel did was right. But neither is the Palastinians even though you seem to think they're the ones with the white hats. I suppose you think that the United States should give our country back to the Native Americans too. The creation of Israel happened over 60 years ago. It's my opinion that both sides should get over it already and establish a reasonable boundary for each country and live with it. There'll be people on both sides that won't get what they want but you know what? Tough! That's what happens in negotiations. As for the zionists that you refer to, I'm told that most of Israel are secularists so it seems that it's just the fanatical few on both sides that wish to continue this foolishness. But by all means go ahead. After all look how long it took for the Brits and Northern Ireland to finally say, "enough already". I'm sure you all can carry on for a few more centuries.

[SlapStick 0]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...story?track=rsssigh, really shitty over here right now. I live a 5 minute walk from where it happened, we heard killings and the killer was on the loose. Was pretty surreal, was walking my friends dogs, when we heard it was an attack on homosexuals we could actually relax a bit more oddly enough, didn't have to worry about a crazed terrorist roaming the streets. If that makes sense. Really horrible news, the gay community live pretty well in Tel Aviv and are treated fairly at least by the people not necessarily the government.

[BaseJester 1]

why are u hung up on semantics?

Why are you anti-semantic?

[strategy 4]

Why are you anti-semantic?

pretty sure this wins the thread, maybe the whole forum

[All_In 0]

I will never agree that violence is the answer no matter which side perpetrates it. If all you read is Al Jezeera then you're getting a very slanted view no matter what you might think.

i know it is a great thing to believe that non-violence can solve major political disputes, india is usually cited as an example.for the most part violence is the currency that buys freedom in this world. the US formation is a perfect example (and anthem).i also do not soley read AJ. i read from cnn and fox (as well others). i try to gather news from a variety of sources. i believe that every news source has a certain bias, it boils down to what each of us thinks is 'just', and to what extent the bias goes.

I never said that everything Israel did was right. But neither is the Palastinians even though you seem to think they're the ones with the white hats.

which side started this whole mess in recent times? to me it is obvious that the state of israel is the instigator of the entire conflict, how can it not be? it was created from land the palestinians lived on and continues to exert total control over the reguees.when u said u do not believe in violence, i do not believe in violence against innocents, not sure if that was your meaning. israel has killed BY FAR more innocent civilians than any palestinian faction/gov, etc. the emphasis and morality of situations like this rest with the superior fighting force; the ones who can, and do, control the situation from a deadly force point of view. i would be interested in hearing your arguments against this.

I suppose you think that the United States should give our country back to the Native Americans too. The creation of Israel happened over 60 years ago. It's my opinion that both sides should get over it already and establish a reasonable boundary for each country and live with it.

i do not think that the US (or canada, eh?) should give up it's land to native americans, that is very unlikely (but there are many issues with how the gov.'s have treated the native americans, both in the past and in the current situation). israel's creation happened very recently, 60yrs is nothing. there are MANY alive who remember living in what was once israel. shouldn't we also learn from our past? also, the US and canada are democracies, and no matter how often u read/hear that israel is a democracy, it isn't.one example:"Nationality and Entry into Israel Law (Temporary Order) 5763-2003, which bans family reunification for Israeli married with Palestinian OPT residents.""While Israeli citizens are granted the right to family reunification with their foreign spouse, this law denies this same right to Israeli citizens married to Palestinian residents...""The law affects the lives of thousands of couples, who are forced to live separately. Indeed, couples who are denied family reunification under this law, can neither live together in Israel, nor move together to the Palestinian Territories, as the spouse holding Israeli identity card would violate the military commander’s order prohibiting Israelis to enter areas under Palestinian security control."http://www.fidh.org/Israeli-High-Court-upholdsanother:"The United States and the United Nations sharply condemned the eviction of two Palestinian families from their homes in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah and their replacement with Jewish families on Sunday."http://www.israeli-occupation.org/us-conde...salem/20090803/

There'll be people on both sides that won't get what they want but you know what? Tough! That's what happens in negotiations. As for the zionists that you refer to, I'm told that most of Israel are secularists so it seems that it's just the fanatical few on both sides that wish to continue this foolishness. But by all means go ahead.

zionism is not a monopoly of the religious, so secularism is not the question. zionism is a belief that a state of israel should exist (albeit, religion is often cited as a driving force behind this. i question the sincerety of such beliefs by the ones in charge)

After all look how long it took for the Brits and Northern Ireland to finally say, "enough already". I'm sure you all can carry on for a few more centuries.

that situation shows that it is possible to come to an agreement. processes like these should not take as long as those in the past; we should learn from our mistakes. there are a lot of beliefs that have been discredited in recent history.

[All_In 0]

Why are you anti-semantic?

i assume u sent the royalty checks to jon stewart by now?

[Mercury69 3]

lol @ anti-semantic

[owise1 0]

Hamas is moving into film production with a release that its German-trained director hopes to enter in the Cannes Film Festival, despite its declaration that to kill Israelis is God's will.An audience in the Gaza Strip clapped and cheered during the premiere of Imad Aqel when an actor delivered the film's most memorable line: "To kill Israeli soldiers is to worship God."And people say the Israelis don't want peace, please. Remember people Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people. So don't give me that "they don't represent the Palestinian people arguement"Click here for the full article From todays National Post

[Avaron 0]

actually, they don't. they "represent" the people of gaza, which is the only piece of land they have control over. fatah controls westbank and the plo is still the only recognized representation of the palestenians

[owise1 0]

actually, they don't. they "represent" the people of gaza, which is the only piece of land they have control over. fatah controls westbank and the plo is still the only recognized representation of the palestenians

While it is true that Hamas governs Gaza, it is my understanding that they were elected by the people. According to Wikipedia,"The Palestinian Legislative Council, (sometimes referred to as the Palestinian Parliament) the legislature of the Palestinian Authority, is a unicameral body with 132 members, elected from 16 electoral districts in the West Bank and Gaza " Either way, it is the people in the audience in Gaza who were clapping and cheering during the premiere of Imad Aqel when an actor delivered the film's most memorable line: "To kill Israeli soldiers is to worship God." If you think that the people in the West Bank will not clap and cheer during this memorable line, well I guess we will have to wait and see, but I wouldn't bet on it. It is tough to make peace with people like that.

[strategy 4]

david garza is actually a pretty solid artist

[All_In 0]

Israelis shot Gaza civilians waving white flags: HRW"Israeli soldiers unlawfully shot and killed 11 Palestinian civilians, including four children, who were in groups waving white flags during the Gaza war...""Under the laws of war, individuals who carry out or order deliberate attacks on civilians are responsible for war crimes.""In one of the cases mentioned, two women and three children were standing in front of their home after a soldier ordered them outside.At least three of them were holding pieces of white cloth when a soldier opened fire, killing two girls aged two and seven and wounding the third girl and their grandmother."We spent seven to nine minutes waving the flags, and our faces were looking at them," the grandmother, who was shot twice, was quoted as saying. "And suddenly they opened fire and the girls fell to the ground.""http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090813/worl...ict_gaza_rightshttp://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleea...5844986966.html

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Israelis shot Gaza civilians waving white flags: HRW"Israeli soldiers unlawfully shot and killed 11 Palestinian civilians, including four children, who were in groups waving white flags during the Gaza war...""Under the laws of war, individuals who carry out or order deliberate attacks on civilians are responsible for war crimes.""In one of the cases mentioned, two women and three children were standing in front of their home after a soldier ordered them outside.At least three of them were holding pieces of white cloth when a soldier opened fire, killing two girls aged two and seven and wounding the third girl and their grandmother."We spent seven to nine minutes waving the flags, and our faces were looking at them," the grandmother, who was shot twice, was quoted as saying. "And suddenly they opened fire and the girls fell to the ground.""http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090813/worl...ict_gaza_rightshttp://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleea...5844986966.html

OK.I've stayed away from this. Mostly because of my history with another poster on a similar topic a few years ago....but here I am to ask you a question very similar to what I posed back then.Can you, without equivocation nor prevarication, simply condemn the practice of blowing up Civilian Markets, busses, and Pizzerias (and while we are at it - the practice of lobbing indiscriminate bombs into civilian areas). I am not looking for an excuse for why people strap on bombs or leave a truck bomb in a Market. I'm not looking for explanations of why these are legitimate targets and actions. I'm not looking for a history lesson of who did what first to whom. Just a simple condemnation of those practices and those who engage in them.As a demonstration of how it is done, let me be the first to do so. In your story of Israeli Soldiers murdering civilians, if the facts are indeed as presented, those soldiers need to be court-martialed and at a minimum spend time in a military prison or perhaps be executed.Furthermore, to show this isn't just an American taking a shot at another country's servicemen, I condemn the actions of the American soldiers who raped a young girl and then murdered the family. They were court-martialed and I support the maximum punishment for their disgraceful actions.So, I challenge you to do the same thing.

[All_In 0]

OK.I've stayed away from this. Mostly because of my history with another poster on a similar topic a few years ago....but here I am to ask you a question very similar to what I posed back then.Can you, without equivocation nor prevarication, simply condemn the practice of blowing up Civilian Markets, busses, and Pizzerias (and while we are at it - the practice of lobbing indiscriminate bombs into civilian areas). I am not looking for an excuse for why people strap on bombs or leave a truck bomb in a Market. I'm not looking for explanations of why these are legitimate targets and actions. I'm not looking for a history lesson of who did what first to whom. Just a simple condemnation of those practices and those who engage in them.As a demonstration of how it is done, let me be the first to do so. In your story of Israeli Soldiers murdering civilians, if the facts are indeed as presented, those soldiers need to be court-martialed and at a minimum spend time in a military prison or perhaps be executed.Furthermore, to show this isn't just an American taking a shot at another country's servicemen, I condemn the actions of the American soldiers who raped a young girl and then murdered the family. They were court-martialed and I support the maximum punishment for their disgraceful actions.So, I challenge you to do the same thing.

i condemn all violence against innocents. why are u asking?