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Don't Be Fooled By The Israeli Regime...


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but hey you could never possibly be fooled by anything. you once read an article on a Muslim website about a study. Arizona State would probably give you an honorary degree.
dork7.jpgThanks.Love, All_in
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joke account? be honest.
no.
I wonder if an American university has ever published a study other Americans disagreed with. you cant quote al-jeezera for 99% of your posts and then tell me I am believing what the media tells me.
well a LOT of americans still don't believe in evolution, so i guess there's precedent for americans, on a whim, not believing in the pursuit of truth through science/evidence.i was, at the heart of it, quoting an israeli/european university study. u can look this study up. because u r not told about it in your chosen media does not mean it isn't true.
what were the parameters of the study? what was considered an act of violence? isnt picking "after the 2nd infitadah" pretty convenient? since that is roughly the time period where the Jews could fight back with more strength than their persecutors?
i love it! do u even have a CLUE as to what u r talking about???
but hey you could never possibly be fooled by anything. you once read an article on a Muslim website about a study. Arizona State would probably give you an honorary degree.
u r really a funny guy.anyways, all of my posts were not flames, and this thread generated some 'normal' debate, until , of course, when someone got offended by facts (the study, which i really shouldn't have to mention again, came from a joint israeli/european university effort).
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So you're saying that you support the idea of a genocide of the Palestinians and you wish that it would have happened in the 60's and 70's.Gotcha
WRONG. Please dont morph my words into yours. I am in support of the killing of terrorist fundamentalists who INITIATE force. That is not genocide. But yes, I wish this would have happened in the 60s and you do too if you prefer rational civilized humans to accompany you in this world.
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This is so convoluted that I have to suspect, along with your low post count, that you are simply trolling. "Kill everyone who I don't consider civilized" is not a tenable ethical or practical position.
revenge? please. what a simplistic twisted way to brush aside Israel's rational self protection. When uncivilized people come at you with a gun, your moral high ground will not stop the bullet. When someone initiates force, force becomes the standard. Acting otherwise is immoral because it will lead you to death.you are an emotionalist intrinsicist who ignores context.Israel should invade and take over Palestine and give them all individual freedom that they could never dream of. And then we should help them do the same in Iran.
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no.well a LOT of americans still don't believe in evolution, so i guess there's precedent for americans, on a whim, not believing in the pursuit of truth through science/evidence.i was, at the heart of it, quoting an israeli/european university study. u can look this study up. because u r not told about it in your chosen media does not mean it isn't true.i love it! do u even have a CLUE as to what u r talking about???u r really a funny guy.anyways, all of my posts were not flames, and this thread generated some 'normal' debate, until , of course, when someone got offended by facts (the study, which i really shouldn't have to mention again, came from a joint israeli/european university effort).
Do you really not have the time to spell out the words here. I mean this is a forum ... we aren't texting back and forth. What are you a 15 year old girl who just got her new phone and thinks it's cool to shorten everything. Or are we infidels not worth the precious extra seconds it takes to write out the word.
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I think israel should be flexible on all of those demands, but the one thing I just don't think is ever going to change is jerusalem. Israel is never giving that up, ever, and don't know if there ever can be peace because of that
+1There will never be peace in the Middle East, but we can never be on the other side when it comes to Israel.
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I'm not going to jump into the debate, both sides have done bad things and I pretty much despise the new Israeli government although I am more pro Israel.... anyway, what he said is not important, things will change, its the fact that he said it is what we should be happy about. Obviously hes not going to come out and say everything they are willing to concede, this is a first step and the fact that its happening is good.Of course it could be disastrous and so many things could go wrong but its a good sign in an almost impossible quest.

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I'm not going to jump into the debate, both sides have done bad things and I pretty much despise the new Israeli government although I am more pro Israel.... anyway, what he said is not important, things will change, its the fact that he said it is what we should be happy about. Obviously hes not going to come out and say everything they are willing to concede, this is a first step and the fact that its happening is good.Of course it could be disastrous and so many things could go wrong but its a good sign in an almost impossible quest.
Again, implying moral equivalence, which is simply not true. What has been done by the Palestinians (through there leaders in Hamas, the PLO, The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, etc...) has been terrorism. Like bombing a cafe, pizza parlor, beach, crowded tourist area, etc... The Israeli military target the terrorist groups and their leaders, they don't bomb anyone anywhere.
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No, I have made no claims to moral equivalence; I think the whole idea is rather silly. My point is that placing blame is largely irrelevant at this point, and what we need is a practical solution. The stalemate involves both sides tossing blame back and forth, which is counter-productive.
First, I said, "Imply" I know you didn't say anything directly but this idea that many people have is something like, 'well, both sides have made mistakes and both sides are bad'. This kind of thinking implies or sometimes directly states that there is a moral equivalence of both the actions of the Israeli government through their military versus several different terrorist groups. Check out the list of foreign terrorists about 30 of the 44 are Islamist groups.There was a practical solution made during the Barak-Clinton Peace Proposal in 2000-2001. This solution gave the Palestinian state about 97% of the occupied territories, the old city of Jerusalem other that the Jewish and Armenian Quarters and $30 billion in compensation for the refugees. (an offer that many Israelis now regard as a naive and overgenerous offer) Arafat said no. Made no conter offer and did what he always did, start up terrorist bombings in Israel and about 3000 died. Both Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush placed all of the blame on Arafat and so did many of Arafat's closest advisers at that time.
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Again, implying moral equivalence, which is simply not true. What has been done by the Palestinians (through there leaders in Hamas, the PLO, The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, etc...) has been terrorism. Like bombing a cafe, pizza parlor, beach, crowded tourist area, etc... The Israeli military target the terrorist groups and their leaders, they don't bomb anyone anywhere.
It's not moral equivalence, its more like unclean hands. The conception of the Israeli military as only targeting terrorist leaders is clearly bogus. Just a few months ago the UN accused Israel of war crimes when they shelled a house full of evacuees. They have killed thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. Amnesty International found major humanitarian transgressions by Israel in the recent conflict. Again, I'm not concerned with weighing whose actions were worse, but given the way both sides have behaved neither is really in a position to take a moral high ground.
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First, I said, "Imply" I know you didn't say anything directly but this idea that many people have is something like, 'well, both sides have made mistakes and both sides are bad'. This kind of thinking implies or sometimes directly states that there is a moral equivalence of both the actions of the Israeli government through their military versus several different terrorist groups. Check out the list of foreign terrorists about 30 of the 44 are Islamist groups.There was a practical solution made during the Barak-Clinton Peace Proposal in 2000-2001. This solution gave the Palestinian state about 97% of the occupied territories, the old city of Jerusalem other that the Jewish and Armenian Quarters and $30 billion in compensation for the refugees. (an offer that many Israelis now regard as a naive and overgenerous offer) Arafat said no. Made no conter offer and did what he always did, start up terrorist bombings in Israel and about 3000 died. Both Presidents Clinton and George W. Bush placed all of the blame on Arafat and so did many of Arafat's closest advisers at that time.
I think Islam is one of the world's biggest problems right now, and I agree that Arafat totally blew that chance.
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It's not moral equivalence, its more like unclean hands. The conception of the Israeli military as only targeting terrorist leaders is clearly bogus. Just a few months ago the UN accused Israel of war crimes when they shelled a house full of evacuees. They have killed thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children. Amnesty International found major humanitarian transgressions by Israel in the recent conflict. Again, I'm not concerned with weighing whose actions were worse, but given the way both sides have behaved neither is really in a position to take a moral high ground.
OK, where do I start. I am getting tired of this. The tactic of having a terrorist headquarters, or a terrorist leader's home right beside (or in the basement of) a hospital, school, mosque, etc... has long been used by these terrorist groups. It's a win win situation for them.If Israel does nothing, they keep bombing, with their notoriously inacurate missles & bombs (Katyusha and others see below). They don't care who they hit, civilians or otherwise. And, if and when Israel attacks them, look what happens. The media says a school was bombed. Well, if the terroists are operating out of the basement, this is what is going to happen. So they win in the media and get public opinion on their side. About your links above and those of other posters, i would suggest a couple of books which would educate everyone book 1 and book 2. I didn't name them so you will have to click on the links to find out :club: From wikipedia: During the 2006 Lebanon War, Hezbollah fired between 3,970 and 4,228 rockets, from light truck-mounts and single-rail man-portable launchers. About 95% of these were 122 mm (4.8 in) Syrian-manufactured Katyusha artillery rockets, which carried warheads up to 30 kg (66 lb) and had a range of up to 30 km (19 mi).[13][14] An estimated 23% of these rockets hit built-up areas, primarily civilian in nature.[15][13][16] Hamas has launched 122-mm “Grad-type Katyusha” rockets from the Gaza Strip against several cities in Israel,[17] although they are not reported to have truck-mounted launchers
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You don't have to convince me that Hezbollah is bad or that the Israelis had reason to attack. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is the pure innocence of Israel that you are portraying. In the incident I cited the house was not near a terrorist hide-out, and in fact Israeli soldiers had told the civilians to hide there. Then they destroyed it.

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If anyone thinks any "genuine" proposal should exclude the responsibilities of Lebanon, Syria and the rest of the Arab world need their head checked.Simply put, why the fuck is it all up to Israel to make amends for the Palestinians?And I agree with VBNautilus (and his dreadlocked dog): It IS a tough choice between tacos and falafel.

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You don't have to convince me that Hezbollah is bad or that the Israelis had reason to attack. That's not in dispute. What is in dispute is the pure innocence of Israel that you are portraying. In the incident I cited the house was not near a terrorist hide-out, and in fact Israeli soldiers had told the civilians to hide there. Then they destroyed it.
ok so you have established that pure innocence doesnt exist on either side, IN A WAR. congrats. thanks for wasting our time and arguing a minor point instead of focusing on the major general issue. israel having or not having pure innocence is completely irrelevant and obvious. stop diverting the issue. should we support terrorist states initiating attacks or should we support sophisticated stable republics?why shouldnt israel be allowed to destroy everyone around them who threatens them? why not? tell me why not.
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ok so you have established that pure innocence doesnt exist on either side, IN A WAR. congrats. thanks for wasting our time and arguing a minor point instead of focusing on the major general issue. israel having or not having pure innocence is completely irrelevant and obvious. stop diverting the issue. should we support terrorist states initiating attacks or should we support sophisticated stable republics?why shouldnt israel be allowed to destroy everyone around them who threatens them? why not? tell me why not.
Easy there, cowboy.
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I think Islam is one of the world's biggest problems right now, and I agree that Arafat totally blew that chance.
Religion has always been a problem.
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(JOhnWaters @ Thursday, June 18th, 2009, 2:27 PM) post_snapback.gifok so you have established that pure innocence doesnt exist on either side, IN A WAR. congrats. thanks for wasting our time and arguing a minor point instead of focusing on the major general issue. israel having or not having pure innocence is completely irrelevant and obvious. stop diverting the issue. should we support terrorist states initiating attacks or should we support sophisticated stable republics?why shouldnt israel be allowed to destroy everyone around them who threatens them? why not? tell me why not.
Exactly! :club: Well said. There is often a double standard applied to Israel. Other countries that get attacked have the right to retaliate, but when Israel does the media is all over it as being wrong.
name='vbnautilus' date='Thursday, June 18th, 2009, 1:55 PM' post='3143857']Easy there, cowboy.
Hoping for a better response than this.
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Hoping for a better response than this.
I don't think his attitude warranted any more of a response that that, and I'm not convinced he is a real account. But seriously, are you asking me to explain why Israel should not commit genocide? Did you two go to the Ahmadinejad School of International Relations? Just wipe them off the map is your honest suggestion?
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I don't think his attitude warranted any more of a response that that, and I'm not convinced he is a real account. But seriously, are you asking me to explain why Israel should not commit genocide? Did you two go to the Ahmadinejad School of International Relations? Just wipe them off the map is your honest suggestion?
thanks for proving my point that you are an emotionalist. you ignore the logic of my argument and concentrate on your feelings being hurt. retaliating against attackers is not genocide. where do you get that ridiculous idea? its actually Israel that has been constantly threatened with genocide in the past 50 years, by all of the Muslims around them. it doesnt matter that fundamentalist, terrorist Muslims are Muslims, its just that theyre evil. why not wipe evil off the map? would you allow nazi's to stay on the map? when irrational dangerous philosophies become mobilized and violent, yes, you do wipe them off the map, or let them wipe you off.
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retaliating against attackers is not genocide. where do you get that ridiculous idea?
For instance, right here a few sentences later in your post?
why not wipe evil off the map? would you allow nazi's to stay on the map? when irrational dangerous philosophies become mobilized and violent, yes, you do wipe them off the map, or let them wipe you off.
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For instance, right here a few sentences later in your post?
im done with you. once again you side step what we are talking about, ignore the issue, ignore context, and make some stupid comment. the key you are missing is the initiation of force. retaliation against a group attacking you is not genocide, its self defense. i cant believe i have to explain this. now, make sure you dont actually reply to the issue at hand by mistake.
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