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Ethical For A Whole Table To Softplay While On The Bubble?


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I was playing a 1 dollar tourney where the top 25 placers receive a 26$ token. I was doing fairly well through the whole tournament and found myself sitting on 80K chips with 40 players left and being the second chip leader. My table was fairly friendly and I had been talking to them and we decided to soft play till the bubble popped. Basically checking it down, not raising, allowing people to keep their blinds...ect.. (blinds are 3,000/6,000)Being deep stacked at the time, it really made no difference to me as regardless of what happened I was pretty much guaranteed a token. Moving on, players dropped down to 26, and an observer enters our table screaming at us for cheating and stating how he deserves the token far more than any of us that were softplaying. The majority of the people at the table disagreed..but I am assuming that is because they were a part of it.Personally, I don't see it as being any different then checking it down when a short stack pushes all in, which I do quite often. Anyone else view this as being unethical or cheap?

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Lol @ believing that you're "guaranteed" a seat when you're second in chips with 40 left and 25 get paid.Poker isn't a game where you should be "friendly" with everyone, your goal is too win.

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Lol @ believing that you're "guaranteed" a seat when you're second in chips with 40 left and 25 get paid.Poker isn't a game where you should be "friendly" with everyone, you're goal is too win.
Second in chips with 80K when there are like 10 players who have maybe 2 BB's left...I'm pretty certain the odds of me losing at that point were fairly slim. Poker in itself is very important to me and I take it pretty seriously, but I don't really see that as a reason to not be friendly with other players if they intend to be friendly with me. My goal was to win, and by softplaying the way I did, I garunteed my win far more than I could have by actually playing hard.My main concern is whether or not it is an ethical move.
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Second in chips with 80K when there are like 10 players who have maybe 2 BB's left...I'm pretty certain the odds of me losing at that point were fairly slim. Poker in itself is very important to me and I take it pretty seriously, but I don't really see that as a reason to not be friendly with other players if they intend to be friendly with me. My goal was to win, and by softplaying the way I did, I garunteed my win far more than I could have by actually playing hard.My main concern is whether or not it is an ethical move.
Yeah I don't see anything wrong with this, however I could DEFINITELY see how someone may have a problem with this... but like Donk for Life says, you are guaranteed nothing being second in chips with 15 people to the bubble. It happens many a times where the chip leaders change and or are out in just a few hands.
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If they a have verbal agreement it is un ethical. If not then it is just a form of implicit collusion. The Fundamental theorem of Poker does not always apply. It is important to be aware of these things and adjust your decisions to meet your goals based on the situation.

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yep, it's collusion and shouldn't be done.If all tables follow the same plan you've got a pretty serious problem. That said, you personally w/ your stack may have wanted to just sit out anyway. That's pretty typical for satellites like these.

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Completely echo pokerinc, any verbal agreement at any time is collusion, i.e. verbally agreeing to check down when a short stack is all in. All halfway competent poker players know it is in there best interest to check down anyway. From the way you descibed this situation this is definitely collusion, but with your chip stack I would nit up and cruise in.

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Yeah I don't see anything wrong with this, however I could DEFINITELY see how someone may have a problem with this... but like Donk for Life says, you are guaranteed nothing being second in chips with 15 people to the bubble. It happens many a times where the chip leaders change and or are out in just a few hands.
If you are 2nd in chips in a satty like this with 25 seats paid and 40 left you should almost ALWAYS be guaranteed a seat, if you are losing all that often then you are playing way too loose for this situation. the only way possible that you should be out in a few hand would be if you were coolered on back to back hands KK<AA or AA<XX. you have to nit up when you are in this situation.
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I was playing a 1 dollar tourney where the top 25 placers receive a 26$ token. I was doing fairly well through the whole tournament and found myself sitting on 80K chips with 40 players left and being the second chip leader. My table was fairly friendly and I had been talking to them and we decided to soft play till the bubble popped. Basically checking it down, not raising, allowing people to keep their blinds...ect.. (blinds are 3,000/6,000)Being deep stacked at the time, it really made no difference to me as regardless of what happened I was pretty much guaranteed a token. Moving on, players dropped down to 26, and an observer enters our table screaming at us for cheating and stating how he deserves the token far more than any of us that were softplaying. The majority of the people at the table disagreed..but I am assuming that is because they were a part of it.Personally, I don't see it as being any different then checking it down when a short stack pushes all in, which I do quite often. Anyone else view this as being unethical or cheap?
CheaterNo way is discussing this with the table ethical. You are creating a disadvantage for everyone on the other tables. Poker is a zero sum game- for there to be a winner there needs to be a loser. If you are deciding to protect the short stacks at your table you are creating a loser on a different table. In no way is that ethical.
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If you are 2nd in chips in a satty like this with 25 seats paid and 40 left you should almost ALWAYS be guaranteed a seat, if you are losing all that often then you are playing way too loose for this situation. the only way possible that you should be out in a few hand would be if you were coolered on back to back hands KK<AA or AA<XX. you have to nit up when you are in this situation.
Should but not guaranteed
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CheaterNo way is discussing this with the table ethical. You are creating a disadvantage for everyone on the other tables. Poker is a zero sum game- for there to be a winner there needs to be a loser. If you are deciding to protect the short stacks at your table you are creating a loser on a different table. In no way is that ethical.
This is correct. In golf if you are in match play you may concede a putt to your opponent, because it is one on one competition. In a golf tourney, you obviously wouldn't be allowed to concede a putt to someone in your foursome, because he is not just competing against you but the whole field. If you conspired to do this at the table, then you colluded and should be disqualified from the tournament.
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CheaterNo way is discussing this with the table ethical. You are creating a disadvantage for everyone on the other tables. Poker is a zero sum game- for there to be a winner there needs to be a loser. If you are deciding to protect the short stacks at your table you are creating a loser on a different table. In no way is that ethical.
I wouldn't really call it discussing with the table, as much as 1 person taking an exceedingly long time for every decision, another person saying "why are you taking so long", him replying "just running the clock". Then everyone else saying "that' a good idea".Though I suppose your point is valid.
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I wouldn't really call it discussing with the table, as much as 1 person taking an exceedingly long time for every decision, another person saying "why are you taking so long", him replying "just running the clock". Then everyone else saying "that' a good idea".Though I suppose your point is valid.
That scenario is over the line. Poker is like a secret club and if you need to ask for the password you are not getting in.
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I think the same when I play the Double or Nothings.What often happens is when a player is sitting out with a short stack close to the end and rather than just wait for him to get blinded out, people continue to risk their tourney lives by shoving.

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I think this is pretty unquestionably unethical. What you were doing is wrong.You were basically causing someone else to lose out on a seat by playing differently than you normally would

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80K with 3,000-6,000 isn't exactly deep stacked. It's 13 or 14 big blinds. You're in great shape, but I wouldn't have made this agreement. I woulda kept raising pots, stealing blinds since everyone else was so timid and really "locked up" my token. Every pot you steal is 9k so I'd be trying to get more chips so I could essentially just sit out when it got down to 2 left on the bubble or so. Basically, my goal would be to try to get as much dead money as I can without facing a huge risk to my stack.

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if people talk about it first then it would be collusion, if they just do it, no foul

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I wouldn't really call it discussing with the table, as much as 1 person taking an exceedingly long time for every decision, another person saying "why are you taking so long", him replying "just running the clock". Then everyone else saying "that' a good idea".Though I suppose your point is valid.
I am fairly sure if you discussed it at all then it would be considered collusion. But It would depend on what was said. If you were just talking about running clock or "stalling" I don't know if that would be considered collusion(but it may be). If you discussed checking it down then it most definately was collusion.
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Today in a tourney me and another guy where talkin and he was cool I was rooting him on when he was in a hand but when me and him got in a hand heads up I almost busted him completely in limit hold em if it was no limit i would have cause I got a full house. After the hand I said sorry man and he replied no big deal I know it's not personal. So you can be nice to someone and still play that is what you should of done in my opinion. when there is money on the line its business its not a team sport. I'm not saying your a bad person cause it truly sounds like you were tryin to be considerate.

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What I'm about to say may surprise you. You might be a cheater and not even know it.If you are in a poker game for money and are taking it easy on one of your buddies, you are cheating yourself, your friend, and every other player in the game. I realize that's a bold statement, but it's absolutely true.In the poker world, we have a term for this type of play. It's called soft playing. When two friends, spouses, relatives or flat out cheaters don't bet against each other, they're soft playing.Soft playing destroys the integrity of the game of poker and it's wrong, flat out wrong.I realize that many players have no idea that this behavior is so unethical. More often than not, soft playing (not to be confused with slow playing) is done innocently with no harm intended. Perhaps a gentleman doesn't want to take a lady's last $20. Or, one player doesn't want to raise his friend because his friend is losing too much money.Well, if you are so concerned with your buddy losing money, or if you're trying to get a date, by not betting against a beautiful woman, try taking them both out to dinner after the game. The poker table is no place for compassion and kindness. I'm sort of kidding, but I think you get the idea.The unintended byproduct of soft playing a friend is how it affects the action for the rest of the players at the table. For example, let's say that you and a pal both make the final table of a No Limit Texas Hold 'em tournament that pays the top five finishers. There are six players remaining and you and your buddy are still hanging in. Remember, the next player out gets nothing. Everyone at the table wants to see someone get knocked out so that they can finish in the money.How do you think the other players at the table would feel if you are soft playing your friend?By not playing hard against him, you are absolutely cheating the other players at the table. That may not have been your intention, but ignorance of the rule won't get you off the hook when you get caught. Soft playing in a tournament can result in severe penalties, including disqualification to both you and your friend.Poker is not a team sport. It's every man for himself. It's perfectly okay to root for your buddies and hope they do well, but when it's time to play the game, you have to give it your all.All by yourself, that is.Soft playing is, more often than not, totally innocent. But you need to be aware that there are snakes out there, and it's important that you spot them before they team up against you.If you're playing online and you smell something fishy, e-mail customer support and have them investigate. At reputable poker sites, a representative will look into your claim by reviewing the hand(s) in question, as well as the betting history of the suspected cheaters. If suspicious betting behavior is detected, the crooks will be banned from the site and you will likely receive a refund for the money you lost due to player collusion.If you see something strange in a live game, notify the floor man immediately and ask him to investigate.
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What if the softplaying was not your idea? And you never verbally agreed to it? But as you observe the situation, it becomes clear that its advantageous not to rock the boat too much...I've found myself in that situation a couple of times. I feel too weird, folding like TT+ so I don't, but I'll nit it up a little bit, since I know I'm going to keep my blind a lot.I think that's ...better than planning to cheat, or actively softplaying someone, but I don't think it's completely on the up and up either.I think the "morally" right thing to do would be to threaten the table with being reported to the site for softplaying and playing as you normally would, even if it's not actually advantageous to do so.I've never softplayed cuze I like someone.

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