Keeping Discipline At The Final Table As Chip Leader.

[JSpencer 0]

So I find myself playing in a large amount of 45,90,180 SnG's and tend to do pretty damn well. More often then not I am one of the chip leaders and I rarely don't make it to the final table.My main issue seems to be, after I have assured money and I am on big stack I begin playing quite crazily and making a lot of bad calls with the mindset ("Oh, well I already made money... and I have the most chips at the table, so it wont hurt") Especially when I am playing knockout and a short stack goes all in.Pretty much, when I am doing very well, I lose all focus and begin to do badly.Anyone else have this issue? If so, do you have any general strategies of dealing with it? I've talked to a few people about it and apparently it's a fairly common problem.

[bigbluffzinc 0]

If you're really struggling playing a deep stack and you really do play the rest of the tournament well.. then you're likely making way too many adjustments to your game. The solution is (unless the game gets short handed) play you're deep stack the same way you played poker to build that stack.. I'm the first to say there is a more optimal way to play a deep stack then a medium stack but if you're struggling with it then that seems to be the obvious solution.. Hope it helped!

[slink 1]

So I find myself playing in a large amount of 45,90,180 SnG's and tend to do pretty damn well. More often then not I am one of the chip leaders and I rarely don't make it to the final table.My main issue seems to be, after I have assured money and I am on big stack I begin playing quite crazily and making a lot of bad calls with the mindset ("Oh, well I already made money... and I have the most chips at the table, so it wont hurt") Especially when I am playing knockout and a short stack goes all in.Pretty much, when I am doing very well, I lose all focus and begin to do badly.Anyone else have this issue? If so, do you have any general strategies of dealing with it? I've talked to a few people about it and apparently it's a fairly common problem.

Seems like you might have already identified it. Though I can relate, when I get to that point I don't want to be pushed around either.

[JSpencer 0]

If you're really struggling playing a deep stack and you really do play the rest of the tournament well.. then you're likely making way too many adjustments to your game. The solution is (unless the game gets short handed) play you're deep stack the same way you played poker to build that stack.. I'm the first to say there is a more optimal way to play a deep stack then a medium stack but if you're struggling with it then that seems to be the obvious solution.. Hope it helped!

Yea...I also think one of the main problems is I get over anxious to bully other players, especially short stacks...I just guess it's one of those things you just need to learn to overcome.

[bigbluffzinc 0]

As the deep stack in the later stages of the tournament you shouldn't be bullying the short stacks, at least imo... Short stacks are looking for a reason to get their money in the middle of the table, any A or pair is going to insta shove... meaning you should be raising their blinds with something like A9+ or any pair barring a read that he plays exceptionally tight and will miss the value he gets from re shoving... in addition to that you should be looking to make moves against deeper stacks as they have much more difficult decisions... i.e. raising medium stacks with slightly more marginal hands as we know they aren't simply shoving with any ace because (as we have accumulated a stack) its the later part of the tournament and they normally aren't willing to risk their tournament life with anything weaker than AJ/AQ and TT+ as they have no real reason to.. and deeper stacks are the ones we can double through.. so part of the problem may indeed be your zeal to engage with short stacks when imo it isn't the optimal strategy for a deep stack. Someone else please post your two cents on this as it is my basic approach to deep stacked tournament poker...

[JSpencer 0]

As the deep stack in the later stages of the tournament you shouldn't be bullying the short stacks, at least imo... Short stacks are looking for a reason to get their money in the middle of the table, any A or pair is going to insta shove... meaning you should be raising their blinds with something like A9+ or any pair barring a read that he plays exceptionally tight and will miss the value he gets from re shoving... in addition to that you should be looking to make moves against deeper stacks as they have much more difficult decisions... i.e. raising medium stacks with slightly more marginal hands as we know they aren't simply shoving with any ace because (as we have accumulated a stack) its the later part of the tournament and they normally aren't willing to risk their tournament life with anything weaker than AJ/AQ and TT+ as they have no real reason to.. and deeper stacks are the ones we can double through.. so part of the problem may indeed be your zeal to engage with short stacks when imo it isn't the optimal strategy for a deep stack. Someone else please post your two cents on this as it is my basic approach to deep stacked tournament poker...

If I ever see a shortstack shove his 1,800 chips, and I'm sitting on 15k with an A 10 suited or KJ or something of the ilk, I call knowing that more than likely they have a middle pair or a high card. if the blinds are 250/500 most short stacks won't be playing tight, they are going to go all in if they get anything that could possibly win. The majority of times when I call preflop this is the case and they are sitting on a pair of 8's when I have AK, not an AWFUL position to be. Though, I suppose you are right. It feels like I tend to focus on the short stacks later on as the deep stack pose much more of a risk.

[bigbluffzinc 0]

I make that call too and I'm confident I have the best hand, I was talking more of stealing their blinds with T8o than calling or making short stack shoves with (like my post said) A9+... and when I talk about short stacked I didn't mean dead, 3.5 BB effective with antes in the mix means I'm shoving them frequently with ATC in their blinds... I was talking more of 7-12 BB where they can afford to be more choosy thus making the JT raises slightly less + ev in my head... could be wrong though.* Oh and I think at least at lower limits (MTT between 1-15$) I find that I would rather play with deeper stacks as I'm more confident not only in my ability to out play the other guy with a similar stack size, but derive more information and play more correctly (in general) than i can against a shorter stack who flops any pair and shoves... can't do much with that information.*

[blakheart 3]

As the deep stack in the later stages of the tournament you shouldn't be bullying the short stacks, at least imo... Short stacks are looking for a reason to get their money in the middle of the table, any A or pair is going to insta shove... meaning you should be raising their blinds with something like A9+ or any pair barring a read that he plays exceptionally tight and will miss the value he gets from re shoving... in addition to that you should be looking to make moves against deeper stacks as they have much more difficult decisions... i.e. raising medium stacks with slightly more marginal hands as we know they aren't simply shoving with any ace because (as we have accumulated a stack) its the later part of the tournament and they normally aren't willing to risk their tournament life with anything weaker than AJ/AQ and TT+ as they have no real reason to.. and deeper stacks are the ones we can double through.. so part of the problem may indeed be your zeal to engage with short stacks when imo it isn't the optimal strategy for a deep stack. Someone else please post your two cents on this as it is my basic approach to deep stacked tournament poker...

This is classic advise. The strategy is to pick on medium stacks, not the shorties. medium stacks can still find a fold. A short stack knows he has to gamble.

[JSpencer 0]

I make that call too and I'm confident I have the best hand, I was talking more of stealing their blinds with T8o than calling or making short stack shoves with (like my post said) A9+... and when I talk about short stacked I didn't mean dead, 3.5 BB effective with antes in the mix means I'm shoving them frequently with ATC in their blinds... I was talking more of 7-12 BB where they can afford to be more choosy thus making the JT raises slightly less + ev in my head... could be wrong though.* Oh and I think at least at lower limits (MTT between 1-15$) I find that I would rather play with deeper stacks as I'm more confident not only in my ability to out play the other guy with a similar stack size, but derive more information and play more correctly (in general) than i can against a shorter stack who flops any pair and shoves... can't do much with that information.*

Pretty good advice. Employed it in my latest SnG and placed first, so I guess the system works.

[bigbluffzinc 0]

lol glad it helped

[Nashtak 0]

As the deep stack in the later stages of the tournament you shouldn't be bullying the short stacks, at least imo... Short stacks are looking for a reason to get their money in the middle of the table, any A or pair is going to insta shove... meaning you should be raising their blinds with something like A9+ or any pair barring a read that he plays exceptionally tight and will miss the value he gets from re shoving... in addition to that you should be looking to make moves against deeper stacks as they have much more difficult decisions... i.e. raising medium stacks with slightly more marginal hands as we know they aren't simply shoving with any ace because (as we have accumulated a stack) its the later part of the tournament and they normally aren't willing to risk their tournament life with anything weaker than AJ/AQ and TT+ as they have no real reason to.. and deeper stacks are the ones we can double through.. so part of the problem may indeed be your zeal to engage with short stacks when imo it isn't the optimal strategy for a deep stack. Someone else please post your two cents on this as it is my basic approach to deep stacked tournament poker...

What do you guys think of Flywatting? I've read about it in HoH tome 2 and i find bigbluffzinc's approach to make more sense. If you don't know about Flywatting, it's an end-game strategy that says it is a correct move to shove against a player whose stack is 10 time smaller than yours. I don't know why one would want to move against a short stack simply because his range is looser by getting money into a pot with an even looser range.

[JSpencer 0]

What do you guys think of Flywatting? I've read about it in HoH tome 2 and i find bigbluffzinc's approach to make more sense. If you don't know about Flywatting, it's an end-game strategy that says it is a correct move to shove against a player whose stack is 10 time smaller than yours. I don't know why one would want to move against a short stack simply because his range is looser by getting money into a pot with an even looser range.

I usually do this..only because I don't stand to lose an obscene amount of chips, will possibly eliminate a player and move up in cash, + short stacks will usually push with any pocket pair or an ace with anything.

[Mayoster 0]

My advice FWIW. Just cause you are the big stack doesnt mean you have to be the sheriff and keep everyone honest. A tip you can use to help focus your play is work out what the average stack for the final table will be. I like to set a goal to be double average stack. Sure you have to play the cards as they come along but don't let the rush of blood haze your judgement.

[Jambot 0]

I used to have this same problem, but I think it really helped me when I realised that if you are the bigstack at the end of a 45 or 90 man tourney you will usually have a decent amount of chips in comparison to blinds and antes. This puts you in control without needing to throw your chips around, call the shorties and show the table who is boss. You already are the boss. You're comfortable. You are in a situation where you can wait for a premium before you get really busy calling short stacks or reraising with a hand. Other players aren't. Also, you can afford to make a few raises each orbit and get some steals made without damaging your position. Be selective with when you do, pick on the right stacks, above all else, recognise who is trying to move up the rankings and has no interest of getting involved and who's willing to gamble and play accordingly.In short, play in a good TAG style and you'll do fine. You don't need to be the hero and take out everyone, you already are the hero baby!