seven card stud - hand 1

[Guest]

Ok, last night there seemed to be a demand for more seven card stud analysis. I don't in any way claim to be an expert; I've actually just recently had a desire to improve my seven stud game. Therefore, I post a few hands for discussion. I figure we can all learn from this, right? My thinking on all streets is posted. Please, dissect away! All hands are 1/2 stud with a $.10 ante.I'm dealt: (A 9 ) K 3 brings in. 3 folds and I raise as the highest card left out is a T T (donk#1) and 4 (donk #2) call. 4th StreetMe: (A 9 ) K , A Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 :club:Donk #2: (xx) T , J I bet, both donks call. No way I'm not good here, right?5th StreetMe: (A 9 ) K , A , T Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 , 4 Donk #2: (xx) T , J , 2 Donk 1 bets, Donk 2 folds. I raise, Donk 1 calls. I don't get reraised, so again, I'm good here, right? Guess I should provide a read here: Donk 1 has played rather loosely so far and has shown down no good hands whatsoever thus far. This hand actually came near the end of the session.6th StreetMe: (A 9 ) K , A , T , 2 Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 , 4 , 2 I bet, donk calls. Curious as to the critique on 6th here. Nothing this personhas done so far in my session as a whole leads me to believe I'm not good here.7th StreetI get an unhelpful 6 and the hand is checked down.Thoughts? Comments? Let me know your thoughts on the format too since we currently don't have a stud hand converter and I had to put this together on my own. Critique away people. I have a few more hands I'll try to get up here too. Results will be posted after appropriate feedback is provided.

[KDawgCometh 2]

I think that I'd look to call him down once he pairs his door card here. His club flush is kinda live, but qwe hold the big ones. With two cards to come, we have ways of imprpoving to Aces up or trip aces. I think raising him on 5th was a little excessive. If he's drawing, let him dig his own grave, if he's ahead, there's no reason to waste bets here by raising

[TS Clark 0]

I tend to be pretty conservative when I play stud, so I probably don't even play this hand on third with lots of people in the hand. My general rule is that I will play two broadway cards (and one non-broadway) only if I have a two flush (which you did) and that flush is totally live. I can see why you played it in this case. It clearly wasn't going to be real family affair, so you might as well take control of the hand against the two remaining lower-card participants. Plus, given your read on the donkeys and their weak play, you're probably fine.4th and 5th would both give me pause -- Donk #1 caught another spade (possible flush draw, since he limped with a 4s on 3rd) on 4th, then paired the door card on 5th. As Kdawg said, I definitely don't pop the guy on 5th when he pairs his door, since you haven't made two pair yet and he could certainly have two small pair at this point (which, at this limit, means you are NEVER going to force him off his hand unless you have a mega-scary board).I think your 6th and 7th plays are fine. He hasn't raised you once yet, so you've got to bet for value on 6th, given your paired aces. Your check on 7th was totally appropriate. He's only going to call you with a hand that can beat you, so no need to take the chance he's been lying in the weeds for you (though he doesn't seem clever enough for this) or caught lucky on 7th.Shane

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I think that I'd look to call him down once he pairs his door card here. His club flush is kinda live, but qwe hold the big ones. With two cards to come, we have ways of imprpoving to Aces up or trip aces. I think raising him on 5th was a little excessive. If he's drawing, let him dig his own grave, if he's ahead, there's no reason to waste bets here by raising

[Comatose_Soul 0]

3 folds

Are you saying three people folded? If so, which cards were exposed? It looks like the bring in folded as well, so that is one 3 gone. Making it less likely that the guy with 4s has a hidden 3 for two pair.On 7th, the 6 takes away one of the potential outs of the guy with 4s. You already have two of the aces. More than likely he was on a straight draw, with a hidden 5 (just a guess.) A big hand like a flush is unlikely, as is a boat, since you would expect some agression. He could have the last 2 or one of the last two 3s (this is where knowing the other exposed cards can be a huge help.) I wouldn't be surprised to see you lose to two pair, but I don't see anything wrong with how you played really. Curious to see what Donk #1 had

[Guest]

I play very little stud but when I have at low levels (or in the HORSE tournies) I've been moderately successful.

Ok, last night there seemed to be a demand for more seven card stud analysis. I don't in any way claim to be an expert; I've actually just recently had a desire to improve my seven stud game. Therefore, I post a few hands for discussion. I figure we can all learn from this, right? My thinking on all streets is posted. Please, dissect away! All hands are 1/2 stud with a $.10 ante.I'm dealt: (A  9 ) K  3  brings in. 3 folds and I raise as the highest card left out is a T  T (donk#1)  and 4 (donk #2) call.  What 3 cards were folded? Any clubs? Broadway? A 9? these all effect your hand.4th StreetMe: (A  9 ) K , A  Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 :club:Donk #2: (xx) T ,  J  I bet, both donks call. No way I'm not good here, right?I think you're good here but 5th could murder you as the Donk's are showing very draw heavy boards so far.5th StreetMe: (A  9 ) K , A , T  Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 ,  4  Donk #2: (xx) T ,  J , 2  Donk 1 bets, Donk 2 folds. I raise, Donk 1 calls. I don't get reraised, so again, I'm good here, right? Guess I should provide a read here: Donk 1 has played rather loosely so far and has shown down no good hands whatsoever thus far. This hand actually came near the end of the session.Horrible raise. There are two things Donk #1 has, either he's a total idiot and trying to bluff with his door card pairing trying to represent trips or he has two pair or better. In the first, let him hang himself, in the second you are either a little or a lot behind. The only "good" thing for raising here is it knocks Donk#2 out so you don't have to worry about him drawing.6th StreetMe: (A  9 ) K , A , T , 2  Donk #1: (xx) 4 , 3 ,  4 , 2  I bet, donk calls. Curious as to the critique on 6th here. Nothing this personhas done so far in my session as a whole leads me to believe I'm not good here.They're both 2 ? It's a not a great card as I think Donk#1 was on a straight draw or has a medium to high hidden pair. After checked to you, you should bet though.7th StreetI get an unhelpful 6  and the hand is checked down.Good check. A pair of Aces is a moderate at best hand in Stud so you REALLY don't want to get check/raised here.Thoughts? Comments? Let me know your thoughts on the format too since we currently don't have a stud hand converter and I had to put this together on my own. Critique away people. I have a few more hands I'll try to get up here too. Results will be posted after appropriate feedback is provided.

Overall I think you played it fine, though I don't like the raise on 5th. The more I think about it though, the better it seems as it stands a VERY good chance of getting you heads up and the only hand you're in real trouble against is trip 4's since you drawing to Aces up at worst.Personally, I'm about 75% sure you lost to a small two pair from Donk#2Zara

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I don't know how helpful it is whenever I post to agree with other posters. Seems like I can't think for myself or offer my own thoughts, but here it goes.I agree that raising 5th (when donk #1 pairs his doorcard) was probably a bad idea. You have to ask yourself what is the reason he called on third street with x-x-4. Are xx a wired pair? Split 4's? Or a wrap of some kind. In any event, his board is pretty scary and I don't think it's reasonable to assume you're ahead with one pair if he paired his doorcard.Now, if he paired the 3 instead of the 4, I'd feel better about raising. Trips is much less likely (a three is dead) and the probable worst case scenario is small two pair (which we're drawing quite live against with an overpair). Plus, the obvious benefits of getting drawing donk #2 to fold.I agree with Zara that I think you lost to a baby two pair (which really sucks).

[BTirish 0]

Except for the raise on 5th, I think you played it fine. Seeing it down to the river is what you want, since you're drawing to aces up, which would probably be good.But it all depends on the opponent. You say the guy who paired his 4 is a donk. If he respects your play, he may have the trip 4's but figure you for a concealed set. It's hard to tell why a donkey plays as he does. I think getting to the river cheaply with your aces is the best move, in general.

[Guest]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in. How did I mess up with two 2 ? oh wellI did lose to two baby pair. He didnt hit it till the river. I apperciate everyone's feedback. I figured the raise oh 5th would be the big point. At that point it was read dependent; he'd shown down ace high several times thus far and I figured I was good; but everyone is right when they say no matter how large a donk he is you shouldn't raise into him with that board. Stud education is a beautiful thing.I'll get a few more hands up in a bit

[Comatose_Soul 0]

I did lose to two baby pair. He didnt hit it till the river.  

Did he mention not hitting it until the end? I only ask, because I know on Tilt, the cards are not necissarily shown in the order they came out during a showdown. Not sure if you mentioned what site you were playing or if they handle it differently - just something strange I noticed on Full Tilt.

[Guest]

I did lose to two baby pair. He didnt hit it till the river.  

Did he mention not hitting it until the end? I only ask, because I know on Tilt, the cards are not necissarily shown in the order they came out during a showdown. Not sure if you mentioned what site you were playing or if they handle it differently - just something strange I noticed on Full Tilt.

Site was Poker stars.....he hit it on the end :evil: Gotta hate the massive suckout. meh. it happens. overall it was a damn nicely profitible session.