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Few Questions About Small Ball Theory.


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I've just finished to read Daniel's Power hold'em strategy and i think i'll have to reread it many times if i want to understand most of the things he explains. But i already have few questions :One of the most important principles of small ball, if i'm not wrong, is to "mini raise" pre flop in order to see as much flops as possible and to keep the pot small. So daniel says to raise 2.5BB. When playing $1.2 tournment i'd say it is borderline impossible because, if you're lucky players after you will just call, but most of the time someone will raise you a lot, so you'll probably have to fold an hand like 67s or something. if the big blind is at $30, i'll make it $75 but someone will raise up to 400 or more.When i try to do in fact i'm losing money chips very quickly because i'll have to fold all hands who aren't premium hands if someone raises me. I only feel confident to make a 3-4 BB raise when i have a very good hand.So my first question is : is small ball inefficient at micro stakes? Should it only be used at higher stakes against good players?Daniel also says it is good to play suited connectors and i understand why : you could make a straight or a flush or even semi bluff with a draw . But if you're in a pot with 78h and there's two hearts on the board with only one cards to come, i think it'd be very dangerous to bluff your opponent because if the last cards is also a heart maybe someone with a better flush than yours will call or raise you. if is is not a heart, at those stakes at least 70% of the players will call or raise you because they have a pair of jacks, queens or kings and there's no scary cards on the board.The few times i've tried to semi bluff this way in mtt, someone called me with a pair even if there was an obvious straight or flush draw.Once again, in mtt, if i try to follow a small ball strategy should i just fold ii i don't make my straight on the turn ?Other question : in his book, there's a lot of examples where an opponent raises 3 or even 4 BB pre flop and Daniel calls with suited connectors, even when he's out of position, most of the time at the SB or BB. Why is that ? Does he just hopes to hit his straight or an open-ended straight draw? Will he just fold if he doesn't hits anything? I understand that Daniel can reads players hands very easily, so maybe it is the reasons why but what are you suposed to do if you don't have a read on your opponent?Last question: t is only an tournament strategy or can we apply it to cash games ? I mean raising only 2 or 2.5 BB pre flop and trying to see a lot of flops?Thanks.

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I've just finished to read Daniel's Power hold'em strategy and i think i'll have to reread it many times if i want to understand most of the things he explains. But i already have few questions :One of the most important principles of small ball, if i'm not wrong, is to "mini raise" pre flop in order to see as much flops as possible and to keep the pot small. So daniel says to raise 2.5BB. When playing $1.2 tournment i'd say it is borderline impossible because, if you're lucky players after you will just call, but most of the time someone will raise you a lot, so you'll probably have to fold an hand like 67s or something. if the big blind is at $30, i'll make it $75 but someone will raise up to 400 or more.When i try to do in fact i'm losing money chips very quickly because i'll have to fold all hands who aren't premium hands if someone raises me. I only feel confident to make a 3-4 BB raise when i have a very good hand.So my first question is : is small ball inefficient at micro stakes? Should it only be used at higher stakes against good players?Daniel also says it is good to play suited connectors and i understand why : you could make a straight or a flush or even semi bluff with a draw . But if you're in a pot with 78h and there's two hearts on the board with only one cards to come, i think it'd be very dangerous to bluff your opponent because if the last cards is also a heart maybe someone with a better flush than yours will call or raise you. if is is not a heart, at those stakes at least 70% of the players will call or raise you because they have a pair of jacks, queens or kings and there's no scary cards on the board.The few times i've tried to semi bluff this way in mtt, someone called me with a pair even if there was an obvious straight or flush draw.Once again, in mtt, if i try to follow a small ball strategy should i just fold ii i don't make my straight on the turn ?Other question : in his book, there's a lot of examples where an opponent raises 3 or even 4 BB pre flop and Daniel calls with suited connectors, even when he's out of position, most of the time at the SB or BB. Why is that ? Does he just hopes to hit his straight or an open-ended straight draw? Will he just fold if he doesn't hits anything? I understand that Daniel can reads players hands very easily, so maybe it is the reasons why but what are you suposed to do if you don't have a read on your opponent?Last question: t is only an tournament strategy or can we apply it to cash games ? I mean raising only 2 or 2.5 BB pre flop and trying to see a lot of flops?Thanks.
Good post, and very relevant questions.I'd personally love to see DN comment on this, but for now you can settle for MSP :)I totally agree that small ball is nearly impossible at the 1-2 dollar tourney level. At least for the 1st 2-4 blind levels. Because you are right, you'll be subject to squeeze plays preflop almost entirely, and by players that aren't necessarily even putting on a squeeze play, but are just plain loose and dumb. At these early levels, I'd keep position in the forefront of your mind. Obviously position is always critical, but you may be better off limping or folding in early position during the early stages than exercising min-raise small ball strategy. So in answer, I think small ball can still work for you, but espeically in the early stages of a MTT at the lower levels, be more apt to just tighten up your play entirely pre-flop, playing premium holdings, and take advantage of overagressive players.Small ball can be used for cash games as well as a strategy, but it's not really the same. I think the core basis for small ball is that your tournament life is finite. By keeping pots small until YOU want them to get big and juicy, you exercise the best basis for tournament survival. In the cash world, when money acquisition is the single goal, and you can reload if you take a rough beat, I think small ball CAN be used, but you would almost surely gauge your play based on the table composition, and be less likely to conform your play to a single style.My 2 cents. Good luck.
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I've just finished to read Daniel's Power hold'em strategy and i think i'll have to reread it many times if i want to understand most of the things he explains. But i already have few questions :One of the most important principles of small ball, if i'm not wrong, is to "mini raise" pre flop in order to see as much flops as possible and to keep the pot small. So daniel says to raise 2.5BB. When playing $1.2 tournment i'd say it is borderline impossible because, if you're lucky players after you will just call, but most of the time someone will raise you a lot, so you'll probably have to fold an hand like 67s or something. if the big blind is at $30, i'll make it $75 but someone will raise up to 400 or more.When i try to do in fact i'm losing money chips very quickly because i'll have to fold all hands who aren't premium hands if someone raises me. I only feel confident to make a 3-4 BB raise when i have a very good hand.So my first question is : is small ball inefficient at micro stakes? Should it only be used at higher stakes against good players?Daniel also says it is good to play suited connectors and i understand why : you could make a straight or a flush or even semi bluff with a draw . But if you're in a pot with 78h and there's two hearts on the board with only one cards to come, i think it'd be very dangerous to bluff your opponent because if the last cards is also a heart maybe someone with a better flush than yours will call or raise you. if is is not a heart, at those stakes at least 70% of the players will call or raise you because they have a pair of jacks, queens or kings and there's no scary cards on the board.The few times i've tried to semi bluff this way in mtt, someone called me with a pair even if there was an obvious straight or flush draw.Once again, in mtt, if i try to follow a small ball strategy should i just fold ii i don't make my straight on the turn ?Other question : in his book, there's a lot of examples where an opponent raises 3 or even 4 BB pre flop and Daniel calls with suited connectors, even when he's out of position, most of the time at the SB or BB. Why is that ? Does he just hopes to hit his straight or an open-ended straight draw? Will he just fold if he doesn't hits anything? I understand that Daniel can reads players hands very easily, so maybe it is the reasons why but what are you suposed to do if you don't have a read on your opponent?Last question: t is only an tournament strategy or can we apply it to cash games ? I mean raising only 2 or 2.5 BB pre flop and trying to see a lot of flops?Thanks.
Small ball is a strategy that requires very good post flop play. DN will raise a lot of hands small but the same whether they're premium or speculative, it's what's known as balancing. If you can only find raises to 3-4x the pot with premium holdings then opponents are going to figure this out. A lot of people prefer to get as much money in pre-flop, to make post flop decisions easier. At micro stakes I don't like to play small ball because opponents play so weird, that making post flop decisions hard just isn't profitable. It is better to play ABC, as it is stupid to try and outplay players at the level.The value of suited connectors is, that if you hit you can get paid big, but if you don't you can get away cheaply. For example if someone raises with AK, you'd rather play 89s here than KQ, because if the flop comes AKQ you won't put another penny into the pot with 89, whereas if you have KQ you are going to lose possibly your whole stack. If however the flop comes Kh 10h 7s, and you have 8h9h, you are going to get paid off big if a heart, jack or six comes.
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You don't have enough chips once you reach 25/50 to effectively small ball unless you doubled up multiple times during the earlier levels. That and the reasons above make small ball inefficient in micro tourneys

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Ok thanks. i'll also add that by raisinfdonly 2.5BB pre flop you give your opponents to see the flop for cheap. Yesterday i've been kicked out of a tourney by a guy who had a pair of sixed Vs my queens. He flopped a set, i didn't realize it (flop was 688, tur was blank) and i went all in like an idiot.

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The reason it's difficult to small-ball through a small stakes tournament has more to do with the structure than the players. Small ball is not defined by the fact that your preflop bets are tiny, its that fact that they represent a very small percentage of your stack. Deep stacked, I can raise preflop with 68s, get reraised and still potentially call, because I'm only risking a very small portion of my chips and, usually in this situation, I can put my opponent on a very narrow range of hands, while he should have no idea what I have. Hopefully I also have position and am a better post-flop player- making this play profitable.After the first two levels or so, this strategy is next to impossible use in a small buyin tournament. You just won't have a big enough stack.An argument can be made that when playing against horrible players, while small ball is still profitable, so is ABC poker. So, if you find small ball placing you in difficult spots, just go back to raising 3x with top hands in late position, decent hands in mid/late position, value bet your made hands/ bluff a lot less, etc.

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Small ball works best when you're in deep stacked tournaments. So that you can call raises with suited connectors or small pocket pairs with a very low percentage of your stack. If you can flop a set or a flush/straight you can crack big pocket pairs and take down a big pot. When you start with 1500 chips you can't call every raise with suited connectors or small pocket pairs. Your stack is too small and those raises represent a large portion of your stack. I like to limp with small pocket pairs/suited connectors when playing in normal stacked tournaments, but I'm gonna be in late position.Potatoman hit it on the head... just look at what he said.

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I'm new here, but I didn't see a new users intro thread so I might as well jump in here. I thought the Small Ball strategy was all about opportunity. You are trying to get into a hand with as little bet/risk as possible. If you can make a hand then you got something to work with. If you don't then you just fold and don't lose much. It's also why I never fold when I have the check available. I may be behind and recognize it, but you never know when you'll hit runner, runner and be the guy delivering the bad beat. I don't have much experience, but I would presume this doesn't fly much in hight stakes, but as stated in deep fields it would be a place to start.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Should you min raise preflop with premium hands or no?This is something which i have yet to figure out. Im stuck between 1. raising preflop with hands like AK, AQ and giving away info. and most times if flop misses i find myself folding to any bet. 2. if i limp or min raise, i find it hard to build the pot afterwards if the board hits.i usually play 0.50/1 cash games with 200 BR.any comments guys?i also find myself folding to over aggressive raises - when i meet overly loose and aggressive players i tend to become tight/passive/weak, often finding myself get eroded away

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Should you min raise preflop with premium hands or no?This is something which i have yet to figure out. Im stuck between 1. raising preflop with hands like AK, AQ and giving away info. and most times if flop misses i find myself folding to any bet. 2. if i limp or min raise, i find it hard to build the pot afterwards if the board hits.i usually play 0.50/1 cash games with 200 BR.any comments guys?i also find myself folding to over aggressive raises - when i meet overly loose and aggressive players i tend to become tight/passive/weak, often finding myself get eroded away
I play 0.50/1 cash games as well, but not the deepstack tables like you do apparently.Whenever I raise, I raise the pot (3.50) and I raise the same amount with every hand (AK, AQ, AA, 55, 67s, etc.). You have to raise every hand the same. If you min-raise with premium hands and a normal raise every other time, it won't be long before the table figures that out.After you raise with AK or AQ and miss the flop, you can still fire a continuation bet and take it down, I do it all of the time. It works best if you only had 1 or 2 callers. I wouldn't bet OOP against 3 or more opponents unless you hit the flop.
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I play 0.50/1 cash games as well, but not the deepstack tables like you do apparently.Whenever I raise, I raise the pot (3.50) and I raise the same amount with every hand (AK, AQ, AA, 55, 67s, etc.). You have to raise every hand the same. If you min-raise with premium hands and a normal raise every other time, it won't be long before the table figures that out.After you raise with AK or AQ and miss the flop, you can still fire a continuation bet and take it down, I do it all of the time. It works best if you only had 1 or 2 callers. I wouldn't bet OOP against 3 or more opponents unless you hit the flop.
This is solid... also add another bb for each limper, truly raising the pot...Italicized is also good as many players c-bet into multiple opponents and it's just throwing money away
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Should you min raise preflop with premium hands or no?This is something which i have yet to figure out. Im stuck between 1. raising preflop with hands like AK, AQ and giving away info. and most times if flop misses i find myself folding to any bet. 2. if i limp or min raise, i find it hard to build the pot afterwards if the board hits.i usually play 0.50/1 cash games with 200 BR.any comments guys?i also find myself folding to over aggressive raises - when i meet overly loose and aggressive players i tend to become tight/passive/weak, often finding myself get eroded away
Against loose agressive villains, play tight, but match the aggressionYou'll be starting with generally better hands, push the advantage
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