Was This A Good Move?

[DemonDonk 0]

I'm not whinging this time, lol. I just had an early exit from a tournament, doing something i've never done before, which is shoving on a semi bluff. I've seen it mentioned around here, and I wondered whether it was a good move or a donk move. *********** # 1 **************PokerStars Game #28641029869: Tournament #165726354, $3.00+$0.30 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2009/05/26 12:19:22 ETTable '165726354 222' 9-max Seat #8 is the buttonSeat 1: claudy923 (4595 in chips) Seat 2: Sann53 (3095 in chips) is sitting outSeat 3: pokerpunk (705 in chips) Seat 4: LizardKingI (6165 in chips) Seat 5: never alone (4135 in chips) Seat 6: stillalive68 (6320 in chips)Seat 7: Joe Stewart (3420 in chips) Seat 8: head107 (2440 in chips) Seat 9: Olimpijs (2270 in chips) Olimpijs: posts small blind 15claudy923: posts big blind 30*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Joe Stewart [5c 4c]Sann53: folds pokerpunk: folds LizardKingI: raises 90 to 120never alone: calls 120stillalive68: calls 120Joe Stewart: calls 120head107: folds Olimpijs: folds claudy923: calls 90*** FLOP *** [5d Kc 9c]claudy923: checks LizardKingI: bets 810never alone: folds stillalive68: folds Joe Stewart: raises 2490 to 3300 and is all-inclaudy923: folds LizardKingI: calls 2490*** TURN *** [5d Kc 9c] [7d]*** RIVER *** [5d Kc 9c 7d] [3h]I thought i had 9 flush outs, plus two 5s and three 4s if i was up against AK, that gives me 14 outs, which is about even money, plus i could get him to fold air or JJ QQ etc? Plus if it came off, i'd have a good table image. I may have been tilting however as the hand before i folded 44 to a 3-bet (not bad really) but seeing a four coming up and wouldve won 3 person's stacks is a bit annoying, but that's being results orientated i guess.

[tbrick412 0]

i'd fold pre but as played i dont mind a flop shove

[TrueAce13 18]

Fold this PF....but after this flop, there is no way you can fold

[westhead12 0]

Fold this PF....but after this flop, there is no way you can fold

I disagree. A bet that big in early position is most likely gonna call a push. In these smaller buy ins you cant expect anyone with a king to fold this postflop after a bet of 810. Why risk your tourney life on a draw this early in a tourney? fold and you still have plenty to work with. I want a lot more than even money on a draw in level 2. The call preflop is questionable, not terrible though, but when you call these drawing hands you cant commit your whole stack on a semi bluff if your draw comes up. Hope that it comes up and that you dont have to overpay to see the next card, and in this case the price is too high.

[SwolyswoND 1]

I disagree. A bet that big in early position is most likely gonna call a push. In these smaller buy ins you cant expect anyone with a king to fold this postflop after a bet of 810. Why risk your tourney life on a draw this early in a tourney? fold and you still have plenty to work with. I want a lot more than even money on a draw in level 2. The call preflop is questionable, not terrible though, but when you call these drawing hands you cant commit your whole stack on a semi bluff if your draw comes up. Hope that it comes up and that you dont have to overpay to see the next card, and in this case the price is too high.

Why risk your tourney life on a draw? You do realize that Hero's combo draw here is a favorite over AK, right?

[loogie 115]

Dude overbet the flop, right? He's doing that most likely because he has a good hand and doesn't want the flush draw to get odds, and he's obviously calling a push. This means you're flipping for your tournament life, and it's much too early to be doing that.Oh yeah, and fold preflop.

[Dhall901 0]

All the talk about folding pre is lame. There was alot of dead money in the pot and you have to play this hand, in my opinion. I love playing suited-connectors, if you hit a flop you're going to bust someone with a big pair many times. If you miss, it's easy to fold. Don't get me wrong, you can't keep limping into every pot trying to hit a flop, or you'll limp yourself to the rail. However, sometimes with a hand like 4-5 suited it's nice to see it. I wouldn't have bluffed all-in, why not try a bluff that's disguised as a value bet? Most times when someone instanta shoves I see it as a bluff..big cards, draw or something like that. If I was your opponent a decent reraise would give me much more pause then an all-in. Plus you have the option of folding if he comes back over the top.Edit: Didn't notice the stack sizes. As played you have to fold the flop, or push. I like the aggressive play, but I probably would have folded. The villian's bet says he's calling a push. Or course if it's early and you want to gamble for a big stack, cheers.

[SwolyswoND 1]

The overbet on the flop doesn't necessary mean villain is calling. It does tell me that he doesn't have anything better than one pair, which is exactly what we should hope to be up against. Maybe he lays it down, maybe not, but if he doesn't we're still in fine shape. I realize it's early in the tourney, but you can't pass on these +EV spots. That's why we have bankroll management. If he calls and you don't hit, fire up the next one. Actually I think it's much better to do this early in a tourney instead of the middle stages if you have a good stack - no need to risk a big stack that figures to go far. But early on, yes look for these kind of spots.Edit: I fold PF personally, but if someone wants to play it in LP I don't think its bad, per se. But if you're not going to push this kind of flop, then you need to fold PF.

[loogie 115]

Coin flipping early in an MTT for your stack? Not for me, thanks. He bet 810 into a 600 pot with 4 other players. He's calling an all in, especially with his stack.

[DemonDonk 0]

I figured he might call, although he hadn't been taking into account pot size in his bets and he regularly potted the flop with missed high cards, i.e. he could have AQ in this spot. I didn't figure him for kings, because he open shoves PPs preflop, so i put him on AK. I couldn't make a decent size raise without pot committing myself, so I had to shove or fold.Maybe I'm stuck in the cash game mentality regarding calling with this pf. I guess they lose worth in tourneys.