Is There Value In Betting This River?

[XXEddie 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton (t850)SB (t1470)Hero (BB) (t1740)UTG (t1240)UTG+1 (t1020)MP1 (t1400)MP2 (t1970)MP3 (t1850)CO (t1960)Hero's M: 58.00Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, KUTG calls t20, 3 folds, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: (t90) Q, A, 8(4 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets t60, Hero calls t60, 1 fold, MP3 calls t60Turn: (t270) 2(3 players)Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets t140, Hero raises to t435, 1 fold, CO calls t295River: (t1140) K(2 players)Only in to round 2, no read on villian. Thoughts about the check/raise on the turn, btw?I prolly fire out any river with the exception of this, and an A. Does Ax or some funky lesser 2 pair pay this off enough to justify betting? I feel like im gonna get looked up by Aces up/JT/88 too often to make this a profitable bet.

[SwolyswoND 1]

I like the c/r, looks really strong here. And since you hold the you know that the only FD he can really have is 9,T, J hi. Unfortunately since this is a limped pot naked hearts as well as made small flushes are certainly in his range.There's definitely value to be had in betting this river, his turn call looks a lot like Ax, Xh to me, which will call the river. Fold to a raise, of course.Edit: Your fears are unfounded. JT and 88 are a teeny tiny part of his range here, and JT would need a heart in it and even then probably wont raise (but will bet if you check). I can't see him having 88 here like ever. Bet bet bet.

[AdamC 0]

I think that a check raise is good here. Had he been so certain of his hand he would've reraised you on the turn, but instead just called. Had he been slwo playing, I dont see him making the bets he did before that, so I'm pretty sure his range is vulnerable flush, two pair, trips, pure bluff.I think hes worried about you having the nut flush and there's a pretty good chance that even with the trips or flush, he lays it dwon to the right checkraise on the river.

[BeaverStyle 1]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.20 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comButton (t850)SB (t1470)Hero (BB) (t1740)UTG (t1240)UTG+1 (t1020)MP1 (t1400)MP2 (t1970)MP3 (t1850)CO (t1960)Hero's M: 58.00Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, KUTG calls t20, 3 folds, MP3 calls t20, CO calls t20, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: (t90) Q, A, 8(4 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets t60, Hero calls t60, 1 fold, MP3 calls t60Turn: (t270) 2(3 players)Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets t140, Hero raises to t435, 1 fold, CO calls t295River: (t1140) K(2 players)Only in to round 2, no read on villian. Thoughts about the check/raise on the turn, btw?I prolly fire out any river with the exception of this, and an A. Does Ax or some funky lesser 2 pair pay this off enough to justify betting? I feel like im gonna get looked up by Aces up/JT/88 too often to make this a profitable bet.

Raise flop?

[SwolyswoND 1]

I think that a check raise is good here. Had he been so certain of his hand he would've reraised you on the turn, but instead just called. Had he been slwo playing, I dont see him making the bets he did before that, so I'm pretty sure his range is vulnerable flush, two pair, trips, pure bluff.I think hes worried about you having the nut flush and there's a pretty good chance that even with the trips or flush, he lays it dwon to the right checkraise on the river.

No one is going to lay down a flush on a nonpaired board with this little action. Never ever ever. Checking will simply let him check behind with all the Ax hands you beat, and he'll probably only bet if he has the flush. C/r seems really really bad here - after you c/r the turn, why would you be checking again with any good hands? By the way - you want to turn two pair into a bluff here? Makes no sense.Edit: Your range for villain is way too tight, and by the way, no one folds sets, like ever.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Raise flop?

Meh, with the flop being 4way and 2 people left to act after you who haven't put in anything, I'd personally rather keep them around drawing to some mid-heart or Ax with no heart. The pot isn't really big enough yet to warrant just trying to steal it outright.

[RISEorFall 0]

i dont get the turn raise. CO has something or else he wouldnt have bet into several players on several streets. we're ahead of nothing, and just committed a bunch of our stack. we dont learn much about his hand when he flats, and we lose our chance to draw out when he reraises us. plus, we have no idea if MP3 is trying to trap or just peeling for cheap with a medium heart (which we want to stay in btw). we're turning a hand with some value into a pure bluff. if we were in position it might be okay as we can take a free showdown unless we make our flush, but even then we run the risk of getting raised out of the pot, and we dont have much showdown value yet.if we really want to raise the turn, we need to raise more. he's getting almost 3-1 on a call. maybe we fold naked As with the turn raise, but anything 2 pair or better (or AJh/ATh) is rarely folding for a small raise.also, why fire out any river but A or K? i get the A, but the K improved our hand and probably did not help his. by trying to bluff the turn, we make it so only hands stronger than our Kings up call, so we cant get value from very much on the river. AJh/ATh maybe, but thats about it. of course our raise was so small he could have a few more hands we beat, but he probably wont call any decent sized bet with them now. i guess we could make a small value bet and fold if we're raised, but we're mostly beat when we get called. we could check and hope for a free showdown, but if he makes a large bet then what? this whole hand is bleh.dont blow a bunch of chips early trying to make stupid plays that rarely work.

[AdamC 0]

No one is going to lay down a flush on a nonpaired board with this little action. Never ever ever. Checking will simply let him check behind with all the Ax hands you beat, and he'll probably only bet if he has the flush. C/r seems really really bad here - after you c/r the turn, why would you be checking again with any good hands? By the way - you want to turn two pair into a bluff here? Makes no sense.Edit: Your range for villain is way too tight, and by the way, no one folds sets, like ever.

Why wouldn't the villain reraise on the turn?

[SwolyswoND 1]

Why wouldn't the villain reraise on the turn?

That's exactly my point. If villain had any of the hands you listed (set or small flush) - he's reraising on the turn, so he doesn't have those hands. The hand that makes the most sense for him to have is TP with a flush draw. Just bet the river. If you check-raise the river, everything you beat is checking behind and everything that beats you is calling. That is the definition of an awful poker play.

[AdamC 0]

ok, I see where I erred, I think.The villain's call on the turn shows a bit of weakness, but not enough to warrent anything fancy on the river, sicne their slightly weak hand might still beat yours. That cover it/