KingJames 11 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 8 handed 1/2 NL Live3rd or 4th orbit, I've won one small hand with 88 and am up $25Hero is BB with TT2 folds, MP raises to $12 (standard is 8-15), CO calls, Button Calls, SB folds, Hero callsOkay here? I could re-raise, but against 3 opponents I figured I'd play it like a medium pair and set mine.Pot is $49, Flop comes 6 7 3 rainbowHero checks, MP bets $20, CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises to $60, MP callsPot is $169, Turn is a 2What the hell do we do here? My stack is $153, I thought my check raise on that flop would take it down against the c-betI'm thinking Set, QQ+ and AK is his range... thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
JoblessBast 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Do you know anything more about MP's playing style? If you're giving him that narrow of a range, you're probably not in great shape. And if his range really is that narrow, you think he would bet-call AK here? Would he cbet AK into 3 people? Would he raise 77, 66, or 33 pf like that? Can he be pushed off an overpair?If I don't know any of these answers (which is usually the case in 1/2NL... I'm usually totally lost), I try to play defensively and keep pots small.Edit: Just saw your subtopic. Since he's unknown, as played, I might check and reevaluate, but it's such a read-dependent spot... Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 What is your plan on the flop if villain 3 bets? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 8 handed 1/2 NL Live3rd or 4th orbit, I've won one small hand with 88 and am up $25Hero is BB with TT2 folds, MP raises to $12 (standard is 8-15), CO calls, Button Calls, SB folds, Hero callsOkay here? I could re-raise, but against 3 opponents I figured I'd play it like a medium pair and set mine.Pot is $49, Flop comes 6 7 3 rainbowHero checks, MP bets $20, CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises to $60, MP callsPot is $169, Turn is a 2What the hell do we do here? My stack is $153, I though my check raise on that flop would take it down against the c-betI'm thinking Set, QQ+ and AK is his range... thoughts?If there are usually that many callers of a PF raise, I'm reraising PF to around $60 and playing it like the nuts on the flop if anyone is still with me. It leaves you with fewer options, but really puts the hard decision on him, not you.As played, the only hand we should worry about is the MP and, oh, hey, there he is. Sometimes a scared JJ / QQ will check down with you and just get to showdown. Just river a T and shove. EZ game. Link to post Share on other sites
regionx8 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think you need to reevaluate why you're raising this flop. You say that you thought a c/r would take down the pot which essentially turns your hand into a bluff. PFR cbet into 3 players which, without more info, i don't think he would do with AK. He did bet small and the other 2 players folded so i think its a good spot to call and reevaluate heads up on the turn. Its hard to say what hands he could have here if we don't know what kinds of hands hes opening preflop but i think my standard would be to call flop and probably call turn depending on the card and his bet size. Link to post Share on other sites
Footballguru 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 check/call flop. Vomit when ace hits the turn. Dont look to play a big pot OOP with a marginal hand. Especially since other two players folded, you have less chances of getting sucked out on if you indeed are ahead right now. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think you need to reevaluate why you're raising this flop. You say that you thought a c/r would take down the pot which essentially turns your hand into a bluff. PFR cbet into 3 players which, without more info, i don't think he would do with AK. He did bet small and the other 2 players folded so i think its a good spot to call and reevaluate heads up on the turn. Its hard to say what hands he could have here if we don't know what kinds of hands hes opening preflop but i think my standard would be to call flop and probably call turn depending on the card and his bet size. Raising is right because we have an under repped decent PP and we're looking for value vs. overcards and total whiffs that spilled $ into this pot. Absolutely he would. Not that he SHOULD, but he WOULD.This is precisely why we raise -- his bet looks like an overcard PFRer blocker, so we're going to value own him.I'm going to be more aggressive and make him think about his hand. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 SCS- I'd fold if I got 3 bet on the flop... Against unknowns at this game I will credit... set or over pair and if he got out of line with AK... I'd get him next time...Also, this game is rediculously spewy preflop, then it gets a little better, but still lots of raising and reraising with air...So on the turn I just lead out for the whole stack... thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think you need to reevaluate why you're raising this flop. You say that you thought a c/r would take down the pot which essentially turns your hand into a bluff. PFR cbet into 3 players which, without more info, i don't think he would do with AK. He did bet small and the other 2 players folded so i think its a good spot to call and reevaluate heads up on the turn. Its hard to say what hands he could have here if we don't know what kinds of hands hes opening preflop but i think my standard would be to call flop and probably call turn depending on the card and his bet size.Not that I turned the hand into a bluff, rather I figured his hand to be more in the over-card range. If I lead at the pot, for $35 or $40, most likely MP folds as do the the CO and Button...Now if I just flat the flop bet from villain, there are a whole lot of cards I don't want to see on turn... so that's why I elected to c/r especially after it was heads up after his small bet Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 SCS- I'd fold if I got 3 bet on the flop... Against unknowns at this game I will credit... set or over pair and if he got out of line with AK... I'd get him next time...Also, this game is rediculously spewy preflop, then it gets a little better, but still lots of raising and reraising with air...So on the turn I just lead out for the whole stack... thoughts?It is such a weird spot, bleh. I may check and pray this goes to showdown....even check fold this???? His call scares the shit out of me. I may shove and puke when he calls with KK....or bet $100 and puke when he snapshoves. And then, if I was you, I would come play 1/3nl on friday nights..... Link to post Share on other sites
regionx8 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Raising is right because we have an under repped decent PP and we're looking for value vs. overcards and total whiffs that spilled $ into this pot. Absolutely he would. Not that he SHOULD, but he WOULD.This is precisely why we raise -- his bet looks like an overcard PFRer blocker, so we're going to value own him.I'm going to be more aggressive and make him think about his hand. Are there really enough weaker hands in his range that call a check raise on this board to justify this? Also if he does have AK why do you want him to fold? he has 6 outs against your hand and may take another stab on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
regionx8 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Not that I turned the hand into a bluff, rather I figured his hand to be more in the over-card range. If I lead at the pot, for $35 or $40, most likely MP folds as do the the CO and Button...Now if I just flat the flop bet from villain, there are a whole lot of cards I don't want to see on turn... so that's why I elected to c/r especially after it was heads up after his small betWhat worse hands does he call a raise with? With no other reads or history you can't tell me hes a spew monkey who will call check raises with air. What better hands does he fold?? When you bet or raise it should be for value or as a bluff. I still don't think raising here is the most +EV way to play the hand Link to post Share on other sites
Jadaki 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Why is everyone taking 88 and 99 out of his range?You took the lead on the flop, if you don't follow through on the turn you are going to be in worse shape when you check and he puts the pressure back on you. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 SCS- I'd fold if I got 3 bet on the flop... Against unknowns at this game I will credit... set or over pair and if he got out of line with AK... I'd get him next time...Also, this game is rediculously spewy preflop, then it gets a little better, but still lots of raising and reraising with air...So on the turn I just lead out for the whole stack... thoughts?What hands is MP betting on this flop, and what hands do you see folding to a checkraise, calling a checkraise, and 3 betting a checkraise? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 It is such a weird spot, bleh. I may check and pray this goes to showdown....even check fold this???? His call scares the shit out of me. I may shove and puke when he calls with KK....or bet $100 and puke when he snapshoves. And then, if I was you, I would come play 1/3nl on friday nights.....It's Friday!! Where is the game?Is it a 300 max buy-in? How Redonkulous is it?In reality, I check/folded the turn when he put me all-in... Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 What hands is MP betting on this flop, and what hands do you see folding to a checkraise, calling a checkraise, and 3 betting a checkraise? Over-cards, suited connectors that aren't top-pair/straight-drawsQQ JJ 99 88 Sets 45AA KK Air Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Why is everyone taking 88 and 99 out of his range?You took the lead on the flop, if you don't follow through on the turn you are going to be in worse shape when you check and he puts the pressure back on you.I dont think it is that, as much as we believe a set, JJ+ is more likely Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 It's Friday!! Where is the game?Is it a 300 max buy-in? How Redonkulous is it?In reality, I check/folded the turn when he put me all-in...Lincoln and Jordan, Yes...though you could be more if you wanted and usually nobody objects. Very, there are people that are pretty good and have an idea of strategy, but the game also has every type of donk there is. I could give you a quick rundown of who is good/dumb/calling station/lag/whatever Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 check/call flop. Vomit when ace hits the turn. Dont look to play a big pot OOP with a marginal hand. Especially since other two players folded, you have less chances of getting sucked out on if you indeed are ahead right now.I'd be much happier about an A hitting the turn than the offsuit deuce. It makes b/f the turn a lot easier. I used to get caught in this situation a bunch, but now I generally follow a simple rule (again, this is read-based): If I'm going to lead/cr certain boards where my hand doesn't improve, I'm raising/reraising PF.So, if I'm going to play 88-JJ and KNOW I'm going to get c-bet when I check postflop, I'm RR preflop. I want to take some position raises down, I want to isolate the original player's range and b/f the flop most often. So much easier to play and much harder on my opponent. Link to post Share on other sites
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