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Table was an interesting mix of absolute fish and several solid players, Hero has a TAG image but is starting to loosen up (not sure if players have caught this - probably not). Villain 1 was a little loose preflop to classify as a TAG, but he could hand read well and played pretty tightly postflop. His main problem was bet sizing issues - not compensating for 5-6 limpers by increasing his open raise amount, or not pricing out draws on flops that he hit. Villain 2 was an absolute fish and the luckiest one I'd ever seen. (Not that it really matters for this hand.) I was involved in two hands with him, one where i had QQ (no diamond) and made it $18 PF, he called, board was 4d 7d Td, he check called 30, check called 60 on a Th turn, and a 8d river checked through, he showed down 5h 5d. The other hand with villain 2 was where i had Ac 4c on the BB, UTG opened to $10 (really small for this table), and 5-6 players called including Villain 2. I called getting like 80 million to 1 odds when it was back around to me. Flop was 4Q4 rainbow, I checked figuring someone had a Q, random guy fired 25, Villain 2 called, I raised to 125, Villain 2 called. Turn was a blank, I ship and he calls with Q4o and stacks me. Now onto the hand. I was stuck from the previous hand (which was orbits ago by now) and ready to gamble more, so I had the straddle on for $6.Hero - UTG($300)Villain 1 - BB($350)Villain 2 - CO($~600)Pre-flop: Hero straddles, 4 callers, Villain 2 calls, two folds, Villain 1 raises to $25, Hero looks down at :ts:5c I was in no mood to give up my straddle, so although it is probably a bad call, I defend. I'd never straddled before so I don't know how wide to defend them, is this okay?Hero calls, 4 folds, Villain 2 calls. Flop: (~$95 after rake) :club::3h :tcVillain 1 bets $30 (I told you his sizing was bad), Hero callsMy thought here was unless Villain 1 has QQ or :4h:qh, that he can't really like this flop. I should be able to rep a T from my straddle defense, and I call because thats likely what weaker players would expect a T to do here. I know the proper play with a T is to raise this flop, but I doubt these live players get that, so they will be less likely to think I have a T if I raise instead of call. I wouldn't even mind if Villain 2 came along, because his ranges are super wide. If he does call then I'm probably just playing my draw, but I'm getting a good price to do it. He folds however, so I'm heads up with the PFR. Turn: ($155) :2hVillain 1 checksFrom watching the villain's reaction to the turn, I didn't think he liked it, although I couldn't be sure. I wasn't very scared of a check-raise here because I think only QQ could do it - there should be zero T in his range except TT. Plus I just hadn't seen any c/r out of this guy, he just liked to value bet or c/c. My only problem here was figuring out if he was going to c/c with a hand like KK or AA with no heart, or what he would do with KKh, AAh, or AhQx. I figured that really in the end most of those hands are going to keep betting until they catch resistance, so my gut told me that he would have bet them anyway. Problem is once I take those out, I have no idea what to put him on. JJ? AK? I figured I had to make a play at this and try to exploit my image, the problem is in the bluff sizing.I don't want to commit myself in case he has something like AQ, KK, AA with no heart that is just going into scared calldown mode, but I have to bet enough to get him off several other hands that I still can't beat (JJ, AK). I finally decided to fire $75. Thoughts?

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Nothing, just a catchy title that people would recognize from Rounders. Maybe subconsciously Cobalt is my idol and I'm trying to make my threads look like his? :club:

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Nothing, just a catchy title that people would recognize from Rounders. Maybe subconsciously Cobalt is my idol and I'm trying to make my threads look like his? :club:
Nobody caught a ringer in rounders
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Table was an interesting mix of absolute fish and several solid players, Hero has a TAG image . . .
Based on the rest of this post I doubt this, but OK.
Now onto the hand. I was stuck from the previous hand (which was orbits ago by now) and ready to gamble more, so I had the straddle on for $6.
This is a Bad Thing. Try not to let the desire to break even influence your play.There are lots of bad reasons to straddle, but this is really bad.
Hero - UTG($300)Villain 1 - BB($350)Villain 2 - CO($~600)Pre-flop: Hero straddles, 4 callers, Villain 2 calls, two folds, Villain 1 raises to $25, Hero looks down at :club::ts I was in no mood to give up my straddle, so although it is probably a bad call, I defend. I'd never straddled before so I don't know how wide to defend them, is this okay?
No, it's terrible. You just put 8% of your stack in the pot out of position with an offsuit one-gapper.I think your post-flop line is good. I would bet more on the turn, though.
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Based on the rest of this post I doubt this, but OK.
I'm curious as to what makes you say this. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or anything, but how can you tell based on the two previous hands I listed (one of which I played QQ and the other I was priced in on the BB with A4s) or this one (where I was straddling and had admitted that I had loosened up)?
No, it's terrible. You just put 8% of your stack in the pot out of position with an offsuit one-gapper.I think your post-flop line is good. I would bet more on the turn, though.
If I'm not defending J9 for ~$20 more getting just short of 3:1 (and more assuming Villain 2 was calling, which I did assume), what should I be defending in a straddle? Plus, I'm actually in position against the PFR.
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I'm curious as to what makes you say this. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or anything, but how can you tell based on the two previous hands I listed (one of which I played QQ and the other I was priced in on the BB with A4s) or this one (where I was straddling and had admitted that I had loosened up)?
I just think it's unlikely you went from playing tight to straddling and calling. Can you give me an example of a hand that you folded that an average player would have played?
If I'm not defending J9 for ~$20 more getting just short of 3:1 (and more assuming Villain 2 was calling, which I did assume), what should I be defending in a straddle?
You shouldn't straddle at all to get even. It's usually wrong to straddle to change one's image or because the villains play poorly against a straddle. But there's a least some logic to it. You're clearly just gambling here and doing so getting the worst of it.Preflop pot odds in this situation are nearly meaningless in no-limit hold'em cash. What are you comparing 3:1 to? You should be playing hands that the implied odds justify, which in this case is medium pairs, or hands that you think are at least as good as a coin flip against the PFR.
Plus, I'm actually in position against the PFR.
True enough.You're out-of-position against the field, but not the PFR.
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I just think it's unlikely you went from playing tight to straddling and calling. Can you give me an example of a hand that you folded that an average player would have played?You shouldn't straddle at all to get even. It's usually wrong to straddle to change one's image or because the villains play poorly against a straddle. But there's a least some logic to it. You're clearly just gambling here and doing so getting the worst of it.Preflop pot odds in this situation are nearly meaningless in no-limit hold'em cash. What are you comparing 3:1 to? You should be playing hands that the implied odds justify, which in this case is medium pairs, or hands that you think are at least as good as a coin flip against the PFR.True enough.You're out-of-position against the field, but not the PFR.
Fair enough, I was just struggling to decide what kind of range to defend a straddle with. So is it only medium pairs and suited connectors like 87s+ that we should be defending (as well as the typical top 10-15% type hands)? If it was J9s would that make a difference?For examples on my image, I was folding hands like QTo in LP with a raise to $13 and three callers in front, and folded J9s in the SB to a raise to $16 and two other callers in front. (I do realize the similarity of that hand to this - this is how I know I loosened up) I distinctly remember both those hands because both times I would have flopped the nuts and there was a bet and a shove on the flop. Results oriented thinking, I know - but sometimes can't help but get pissed at the money that you would have won.Is the consensus that the turn semi-bluff is good, I just didn't make it large enough? I didn't think the difference in the $75-$100 would change villain's decision of whether to call/raise or fold.
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Turn semibluff is very good, IMO. Villain doesn't like the card and you can credibly represent a strong range, so take advantage of the situation. I'd say we're going for a river barrel, too, unless we hit the flush in which case we should probably just take a showdown

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Switching gears here a little bit, I'm interested in some discussion about the straddle aspect.What are good reasons to straddle? Not good reasons to? Under what table dynamics should we do it? How wide should we defend straddles, or if there are many callers, how wide should we be making a big raise on our option?

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Switching gears here a little bit, I'm interested in some discussion about the straddle aspect.What are good reasons to straddle? Not good reasons to? Under what table dynamics should we do it? How wide should we defend straddles, or if there are many callers, how wide should we be making a big raise on our option?
I like the straddle because it gives us position preflop and gives us a loose image. Downside is that others are tempted to attack it if you play weak tight. It's difficult to defend as profitable by itself, but the benefit is that it builds pots and loosens a tight game.I'm not a real big "defend the straddle" or "change your range" guy, I'm just looking to use it to make a small game get bigger.
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in this crappy "back alley" "poker room" i went to once (their 2nd table was a pool table, but they refused to open it even when the main table got to be 12 handed) this guy called some straddle from the button that forced the SB to act first preflop. I dont remember what he called it (Mississippi straddle maybe?) but it would be a good idea if everyone let you do it a bit. you get to act last preflop and postflop. of course, the guy that used it also thought that having the button was an automatic reason to play any hand for any amount and he deserved to win "because he was on the button"i dont get straddles in general, b/c you're putting in more chips blind and often oop. maybe good for loosening up your image or the table, sure it can have some good metagame effects, but i see little/no immediate advantage. if i was to do it i'd want every player to do it for the whole round.

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  • 1 month later...
Nothing, just a catchy title that people would recognize from Rounders. Maybe subconsciously Cobalt is my idol and I'm trying to make my threads look like his? :club:
:ts Okay...you got called out on pre-flop. I agree that it's generally a fold (I like a defend with J9s much more), especially with stack sizes where they are. If you're deeper, you can loosen up more and just go with post-flop reads.Flop looks decent. I like the donkbet on the turn. I don't mind $75-$100. I think it looks a lot like you've got the T or the flush. If villain has any semblance of awareness, he's gotta know that you're likely to shove the river, so it puts lots of pressure on him.As for straddles, I don't do them much aside from the Rio where they allow Mississippi straddles.
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I straddle at passive tables with bad players. It makes the game play bigger, and if I straddle, it usually encourages others to do the same. It's probably borderline unprofitable at the best of times, but I usually have a nice Laggy image so my straddles rarely get attacked unlss someone has a premium hand, and I make a dead money play every once in awhile when the right players limp that is typically very succesful.I'll also straddle because it's an excuse to play more hands, which is fun. When I play live poker, my primary reason is to enjoy myself, and to (hopefully) win some money. I'm not trying to grind out a living, I'm enjoying a hobby that happens to be reasonably profitable for me. Don't get me wrong, I don't play like a donkey and spew money, but I play LAG because TAG is boring, I straddle because folding is boring and my style/table image makes straddling as close to a 'good' play as it can be.As for the hand, I rarely/never defend a straddle with J9o, but given that you did, the rest of the hand is played very well, IMO. I don't mind the $75 bet because most bad players won't recognize that it is a small bet in relation to pot size, as it is a big bet in relation to the big blind, which is more likely what this guy is thinking about. We've already established that this guy has no concept of bet sizing (30 into 90 on the flop), so IMO, a $75 bet is going to have the same effect here as a $100 bet. In fact, $50 would probably have the same effect as $75.

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