Is This A Fold?

[Daemon10 0]

Interesting hand came up at a weekly game 1/2nl about halfway through, the other two players in the hand are competent, but nothing special. I have 1100 utg had 900 and the other guy whose position I forgot had 1400. I had kk on the CO, the guy with the unknown position bet 20 pre, one caller, I raised to 86. The utg called after a couple minutes. And the unknwon called, the other caller folded.The flop came AAA. Utg waited for a couple minutes and then shoved the unknown took like fifteen minutes and then called.How often if I call do they show up with an Ace?? And should I call?

[trystero 0]

fun handfor like 4-5 buyins, whatever it is, I fold.

[pangloss 0]

my first thought is we easily have the utg bettor beat. a large overbet would not be the "standard" play with an ace on the flop.now our real worry is the unknown position, who was the initial PFR.while we do have the second nuts here, i would be worried about the fact that the unknown position just flat called such a gross overbet on the flop. that reeks of an ace to me.what hands could we beat here? QQ maybe or a split with KK. i dont see a flat call from JJ or worse.at this point we only have $86 invested. if we get bluffed here no biggie, but if we call and lose its a big deal.if they are making those types of plays with less than KK, you will have plenty of chances to take their $$.fold here and wait for a better opportunity.and as far as how often do they hold an ace here its tough to say.i think it would be a mistake to just figure your odds of flopping 4 aces when you start with 1 in your hand.a more realistic way would be to try and estimate your opponents potential range of holdings for calling a reraise before the flop. then figure what percentage of those holdings contain just one ace.ie. the player is tight and would only call a reraise with AA,KK,QQ,JJ,TT,AK,AQ,AJwe can forget AA since that isnt possible. that leaves KK,QQ,JJ,TT that do not include an ace. AK,AQ,AJ all do but you must consider that we are more than 1.5x as likely to be dealt one of the Ax vs. pairs hands.so short answer is: more likely than you probably think somebody please correct me if my math or logic is flawed.

[ddudley 0]

Smells like you had them both beat. I'm assuming this is a cash game and not a tournament... Let's see your calling $1100 to win $2020 in the pot... almost 2:1.If the first guy had an Ace why would he go all in? Wouldn't he check or bet a small amount. Smells like 9s, 10s, Js or a complete bluff.You obviously have the caller beat, if he had an Ace it's an instant call. Even if he were grandstanding for your call he would take 30-40 seconds, maybe a minute and a half at the most. 15 minutes indicates a real issue to me (like Q-Q). Did anyone call the clock on him? Is this unusual in this game? (I assumed it is). If he had an Ace and took 15 minutes wouldn't the rest of players get pissed at him when the hand was turned over? Maybe even not be invited back?Having said that, if your bankroll is 30K+ then yes, I call. If your bankroll is 5-10K, I think it's a fold.

[ddudley 0]

DP

[Dictius 0]

Interesting result from Holdem RangerResults from http:\\www.HoldEmRanger.com 11,778,732 evaluations, 13,044 hole card combosBoard: Ac Ad AsWins Ties Equity62.78% 0.71% 63.49% ( A2+, 88+ ) 0.04% 0.71% 0.75% ( 88+ ) 34.35% 1.40% 35.75% ( KK ) At first I thought call, but now I think fold mainly because we are so deep.

[Shark527 0]

Being a weekly home game makes it sound like you have played with these people before.Watch both players the entire time after the flop and try to get some reads. Since you were the 3bettor preflop, you would most likely have the Ace of the 3 players.I would fold after a few minutes. I'm not committing another 500 BB's into the pot with second nuts after two other people have seemed to show extreme interest in committing theirs.

[Solar 0]

Wins Ties Equity62.78% 0.71% 63.49% ( A2+, 88+ )

Isnt this range a little wide? If I understand the OP correctly UTG limped then called a 3bet. Its pretty unlikely he has AK, AQ or AJ as he would probably have raised. This guy is described as competant, does he really limp call a 3bet out of position with A2-A8/A9. I would have thought it pretty far fetched.I think I call

[Dictius 0]

Yeah maybe but who knows? We are given very little information about the players so I have no idea what their UTG limping range might be.

[Daemon10 0]

Yeah it was a cash game, I assumed that the shover I had beat, and what worried me was the OFP, I mean, yeah why would he take so long with an ace, I mean I felt like QQ maybe even KK.Both of them are pretty comptetant, though the guy who shoved is uber agressive post flop, really really agressive and consistent which sucks because though he bluffs a lot, hen he has the nuts he gets called a crap load to just because of his loose agressive tendancies.OFP plays fairly tag, and makes pretty standard plays and some good folds. I didnt understand because his flat call also only left him like 200 dollars or so back, I remember that clearly, which was really weird to me given the pot size and stacks, but maybe not.I just can't understand, I mean, with him being so comptetant from what I have seen I can rule out a2-a9 probably even A10 AJ. So AK being super unlikely with my hold cards, would he really call a 3 bet preflop with AJ? AQ? I had a pretty tight table image.

[ddudley 0]

Yeah it was a cash game, I assumed that the shover I had beat, and what worried me was the OFP, I mean, yeah why would he take so long with an ace, I mean I felt like QQ maybe even KK.Both of them are pretty comptetant, though the guy who shoved is uber agressive post flop, really really agressive and consistent which sucks because though he bluffs a lot, hen he has the nuts he gets called a crap load to just because of his loose agressive tendancies.OFP plays fairly tag, and makes pretty standard plays and some good folds. I didnt understand because his flat call also only left him like 200 dollars or so back, I remember that clearly, which was really weird to me given the pot size and stacks, but maybe not.I just can't understand, I mean, with him being so comptetant from what I have seen I can rule out a2-a9 probably even A10 AJ. So AK being super unlikely with my hold cards, would he really call a 3 bet preflop with AJ? AQ? I had a pretty tight table image.

So, I'm curious as to what they turned over... BTW the caller having KK entered my mind too. Just so rare to have the same pocket pair...

[strappazon 0]

I'd fold.

[Daemon10 0]

Well I folded, and the OFP turned over KK, and the insta shover turned over 77. I just didnt know how I could call so deep.

[gooch 0]

If the first guy had an Ace why would he go all in? Wouldn't he check or bet a small amount. Smells like 9s, 10s, Js or a complete bluff.

that's the very reason i would shove this flop and get (have gotten) paid by 2nd nuts on quad flops more than a few timesit's a dirty dirty way to play them but there are too many people that can't make the laydownnice fold op

[ddudley 0]

Well I folded, and the OFP turned over KK, and the insta shover turned over 77. I just didnt know how I could call so deep.

1. Did you show your fold or just quietly go on to the next hand? And Why?2. How did you play after that? Good, bad, OK?3. Did your bankroll size factor into your decision to fold?4. If you are comfortable saying, how big is your roll compared to your table stack?5. How much did you buy-in for? vs. how much had you already won?

[NoBBiR 0]

Open shoving the flop with quads is a high caliber play in a threebet pot like this.It also would have been high caliber to agonize and then just call like the guy in the middle did if he had quads.Neither had quads, so both were just idiots. I mean the guy open shoved like 800 into two people on an AAA flop, with less than 300 in the pot, with 77, in a threebet hand? Wtf.OH WOOPS LOST 4 BUYINS STRAIGHT BECUZ I TRIED TO BLUFf SHOVE 3x POT ON AN AAA FLOP, OH WELL, I'm LOADED LOL.