Final Table Play In Mtts...

[sven00100 0]

So today i played a $2+$.25 MTT on FT (9 handed, regular stack, regular blind speed, NLHE)I made it to the final table as the chip leader..Most players seem to tend to be aggressive early at the final table (especially with a chip lead, in my case about 20% over the next opponent, though only one player had under 50% of my stack) I pretty much waited out hands, and was pretty card dead, but this isn't actually my question:In general, do people here who play tournaments (MTTs) regularly find it more profitable to be very patient on final tables, or to be manipulative, and aggressive, or something else? I am specifically referring to sub $5 buy in MTTs.

[gooch 0]

So today i played a $2+$.25 MTT on FT (9 handed, regular stack, regular blind speed, NLHE)I made it to the final table as the chip leader..Most players seem to tend to be aggressive early at the final table (especially with a chip lead, in my case about 20% over the next opponent, though only one player had under 50% of my stack) I pretty much waited out hands, and was pretty card dead, but this isn't actually my question:In general, do people here who play tournaments (MTTs) regularly find it more profitable to be very patient on final tables, or to be manipulative, and aggressive, or something else? I am specifically referring to sub $5 buy in MTTs.

i've been playing a lot of the ftops mtts and very often make final table, rarely however do i come in with the chip leadon the times that i do, and from watching other players this is what i have observed:picking up the blinds and antes is huge, you can really become bulletproof if you do this right and can take a couple approachessmall raises represent a lot of the stacks at this level, guys with an M of say 8 or less don't want to call any raise with less than premium hands so i find that picking off the blinds from the middle stacks is often easier than the smaller stacks who are often in push mode, standard small rs and then a small cbet on any flop can often pick these up and you will be a huge chip leader in no time, position play with flops even oop betting into them can be quite a good move if you have the chips to make a mistake here and there and fold to a rraifor myself i often come in shorter it seems so i look to push against middle stacks who don't want to call off half their stack in a race, big stacks only with premium hands and short stacks will race with too many hands so you need to be commited to a push if you play any rs against themi will pick up a ticket about every 1 or 2 out of three times i make a final table i think so patient play does seem to work, last game two chip leaders got into it AA vs KK and i got to coast in so as long as you stay alive you have a chance

[sven00100 0]

i've been playing a lot of the ftops mtts and very often make final table, rarely however do i come in with the chip leadon the times that i do, and from watching other players this is what i have observed:picking up the blinds and antes is huge, you can really become bulletproof if you do this right and can take a couple approachessmall raises represent a lot of the stacks at this level, guys with an M of say 8 or less don't want to call any raise with less than premium hands so i find that picking off the blinds from the middle stacks is often easier than the smaller stacks who are often in push mode, standard small rs and then a small cbet on any flop can often pick these up and you will be a huge chip leader in no time, position play with flops even oop betting into them can be quite a good move if you have the chips to make a mistake here and there and fold to a rraifor myself i often come in shorter it seems so i look to push against middle stacks who don't want to call off half their stack in a race, big stacks only with premium hands and short stacks will race with too many hands so you need to be commited to a push if you play any rs against themi will pick up a ticket about every 1 or 2 out of three times i make a final table i think so patient play does seem to work, last game two chip leaders got into it AA vs KK and i got to coast in so as long as you stay alive you have a chance

Thanks! this helps - I was blinded a lot (since i was card dead) I probably could have had more of a chance later (ended up being 6bb right after one big stack knocked off another big stack 4 handed) if i had been pushy toward medium sized stacks... having 6bb, i went in on ATs as the button, called by the bb with Q8s, and he won the hand (i would have called in his position too, he had ~100bb) but got a bad beat 6 handed and coasted to 3 handed through a dead deck.Patient enough that i doubled on JJ short stacked and waited out one of them crashing in 4th.This specific tourney was what got me thinking, but i think it was a decent result anyways, and I will take up some of that "bullying" attitude as chip lead (when i come in Final table as such) in a smart way (taking other things into account of course). I really appreciate your input gooch .

[RISEorFall 0]

with a big stack you have several options. "bullying" is one of them, but don't just recklessly throw chips around or you'll end up going out early. you also have the option of playing a bit tighter and letting some shorter stacks bust out. generally, the payout for 5th and up is quite more substantial than 6-9, and if several players bust before you really have to get involved in a big hand the better chances you have of finishing in a big payout spot.the downside to this, of course, is you let some of the medium stacks catch up to your big stack. you generally shouldn't be playing to just move up spots, except in a few odd cases (youre very short stacked, two bigger stacks are already all in and the next pay jump is significant, etc), but keep in mind you can't win the tournament with 9 people left. i like to play a bit tighter at first, so that when the table gets short handed i can use that tight image and open up and steal more pots preflop. you have to get pretty aggressive once the table gets to 5-6 handed. once you get there you really want to play for that top spot.it's hard to get into specifics. play some Sit n Gos. they are a decent simulation for how a final table plays

[gooch 0]

Thanks! this helps - I was blinded a lot (since i was card dead) I probably could have had more of a chance later (ended up being 6bb right after one big stack knocked off another big stack 4 handed) if i had been pushy toward medium sized stacks... having 6bb, i went in on ATs as the button, called by the bb with Q8s, and he won the hand (i would have called in his position too, he had ~100bb) but got a bad beat 6 handed and coasted to 3 handed through a dead deck.Patient enough that i doubled on JJ short stacked and waited out one of them crashing in 4th.This specific tourney was what got me thinking, but i think it was a decent result anyways, and I will take up some of that "bullying" attitude as chip lead (when i come in Final table as such) in a smart way (taking other things into account of course). I really appreciate your input gooch .

no worries bro, like i said, i'm usually not in a chip lead position, but this is what i have found other people do that can be quite frustratingi know i want to see a flop with JTs in say the cuttoff, but when there is a rs and you have an M of 6 there is no way you can see itbeing a chip leader does one thing i find in the later stages and i think this is the most important, it allows you to play pots, there is no way you can win a pot if you are not in the hand so they can pick up a lot more pots than the short stacks never have a chance atlike rise and fall said, don't throw your chips away willy nilly, but you have the opportunity to actually see a card after a flop where as many players have to either fold or go all in at that point, i believe that is a large advantage down the linealso, like rise and fall said, stay away from pots that are being contested already, if there is a raise and another player that is interested in the hand i often stay away with all but the biggest hands as entering the pot can give them certain odds to shove and you end up having to play for more than you wanted tomy buddy started to try this after i pointed it out to him, watch the tight middle stacks and steal from them as they wait for the short stacks to bust out, sooner or later they find themselves on the SS themselves and you have built a sizable cushion of safety

[Biff Goods 0]

Didn't read any of the replies yet but here is my take. Every final table is like a snowflake...each one is different. (that's right...I said snowflake)Some times you need to get crazy aggressive and other times you need to wait out some guys. It's just up to you to figure out what speed to play when.

[potatoman 0]

with a big stack you have several options. "bullying" is one of them, but don't just recklessly throw chips around or you'll end up going out early. you also have the option of playing a bit tighter and letting some shorter stacks bust out. generally, the payout for 5th and up is quite more substantial than 6-9, and if several players bust before you really have to get involved in a big hand the better chances you have of finishing in a big payout spot.the downside to this, of course, is you let some of the medium stacks catch up to your big stack. you generally shouldn't be playing to just move up spots, except in a few odd cases (youre very short stacked, two bigger stacks are already all in and the next pay jump is significant, etc), but keep in mind you can't win the tournament with 9 people left. i like to play a bit tighter at first, so that when the table gets short handed i can use that tight image and open up and steal more pots preflop. you have to get pretty aggressive once the table gets to 5-6 handed. once you get there you really want to play for that top spot.it's hard to get into specifics. play some Sit n Gos. they are a decent simulation for how a final table plays

This. I usually play them somewhat similar to how I would play a sng. I steal blinds a bit more often, but I choose my targets/spots carefully. You really should have some good reads on some players at this point. You should almost be able to point out the first 2-3 people who are likely to bust out.I recently played a low buyin tournament where I raised every single time I was the first to enter the pot preflop and C bet about 90 per cent of the time. And I won the tournament. I have never before played that aggressive, but it was obvious to me when the tournament got down to 20 players, that I was playing against some very tight players who were willing to let me abuse them. This is usually not the case in a low buy-in event, but you may have certain players you can employ this strategy on. Just be observant.

[RISEorFall 0]

another thing i like to do, is when it gets to 2-3 tables, i open up the other tables and keep an eye on how the other guys play. you have to keep your main focus on your table, but it lets you watch who's raising a lot preflop, who's playing too tight, what hands players are going to showdown with, etc. that way i have atleast some kind of read on players once i do make the final table. i didnt mean to sound like we should try and fold our way into the top few spots. if we're card dead and can't find spots to take advantage of good reads, that may be the best option, but often you'll be blinded out. if you see good spots to take shots and build a stack, do it. going out 9th or 7th is much less of a concern than getting a stack and trying to get top 5 and higher.gooch's advice about stealing from the medium stacks is good, and not only FT advice. that's generally who you want to steal from on the bubble and when tables are shorter.

[gooch 0]

just started playing the double deuce shootouts, great way to work on final table strategy as you get to do it twice points- patient is good, pick your spots and sometimes just get out of the way and let the other guys hurt each otheryou have to be willing to give up a bluff when theu go wrong, watch these