rcgs59 15 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 VT, I recommend not to FT anything anymore.sissy's way out :rolleyes:besides that it's time to give back Vt some of his own medicine. nah he is a very good player better than 80% here omg I am not real Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 omg I am not realThe truth finally comes out! Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 sissy's way out :rolleyes:besides that it's time to give back Vt some of his own medicine. nah he is a very good player better everyone but zoo here.omg I am not realfyp Link to post Share on other sites
DinkDonk 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ok, I understand the stack size implications here but what would be the harm in a limp or standard raise with AA or KK? Worst case with a standard raise is that everyone reads you like a book and it folds around (like it most likely would if you shoved). Worst case with the limp is you get 5 callers to the flop (unlikely given the stack sizes). If someone has a hand they want to get it all in with, it will happen if you shove or just raise. In fact, I think I like the limp here even better. One way or the other, you are going to have to gamble with this stack so why not take the chance with a limp that someone comes over the top or that someone who limps behind catches a piece of the flop?Balance. As a person plays poker for higher volume and versus tougher competition, it becomes increasingly more important to play hands in a way that leads to the highest expectation for your entire hand range as opposed to trying to find the highest expectation for every singular hand in your range in a vacuum. So even if we agree that it is more profitable to play AA for a standard raise, it is still incorrect to play it in that manner if you are taking an amount of EV from the rest of the hands in your overall set that is more than the amount of EV you gain by playing AA in that way. Soooooo, even though he is expecting folds when he shoves Q9dd or whatever, the fact that he is also shoving AA and KK and his strong hands is what makes it so likely that he gets those folds. If he takes those strong hands out of his range, his opponents (at the level and amount of volume that VT plays) will pick up on it and call with a wider and wider range vs. his shoves until hands like this one are no longer profitable to shove. By leaving the strong hands and a solid mix of preflop bluffs/semibluffs, he remains difficult to read, comes much closer to unexploitable play, and balances the hands in his preflop range to what he believes is the most profitable overall strategy for his entire hand set, even if there are hands within that set which could be played individually in a more profitable manner (limping AA or whatever.)This sort of thinking goes for all forms of poker. The ranges change as the factors change.(Pleeeeeaaase don't quote this. I know that it's within your rights to do so, but I'd really rather have the option to delete it. Thanks.) Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ok, I haven't read this yet, but am assuming that because this is 7 pages long there must be some drama in here. Be back in a little bit. Link to post Share on other sites
DinkDonk 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Why the fuck do I post stuff like this in all of these dramabomb threads? Link to post Share on other sites
silkyjonson 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ok, I haven't read this yet, but am assuming that because this is 7 pages long there must be some drama in here. Be back in a little bit.Thanks for giving us the heads up!pinche cabron. Link to post Share on other sites
DinkDonk 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ok, I haven't read this yet, but am assuming that because this is 7 pages long there must be some drama in here. Be back in a little bit.Plus it's a thread about Vt. Wherever Vt ventures on FCP, drama will surely follow. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Plus it's a thread about Vt. Wherever Vt ventures on FCP, drama will surely follow.weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeim a nice guy in real life i promise Link to post Share on other sites
Tehtoe 3 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 dsfakjdssaldfdo you people know nothing about ranges and balancing them? Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 dsfakjdssaldfdo you people know nothing about ranges and balancing them?Dscoot knows. And he does not agree. /thread Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 dsfakjdssaldfdo you people know nothing about ranges and balancing them?forgive me Tyler but couldn't help thisyou didn't say type of Range lol Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 hmmmmmmmmm Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 dsfakjdssaldfdo you people know nothing about ranges and balancing them?I accepted that Im wrong... why cant you? Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 dsfakjdssaldfdo you people know nothing about ranges and balancing them? I accepted that Im wrong... why cant you?This. I really think everyone who posted about this balancing nonsense should go away and learn how to play poker. Perhaps read a few books or something. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 i was going for the straight flush. im about 3 to 1 to hit a straight flush... so i decided to gamble. didnt work out this time but it usually does.Both PRICELESSwe all know vt is ugly but we love him anywaysFYPzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz/thread.and rose u def thought it was 3 to 1.QFTits a poor play. 5 of the 8 people have 10bb or less, meaning stealing isnt gonna do that much in the long run, as you can outlast them alot w/o this risk. plus since other jokers are so short i think that makes them calling allins more likely.but since VT likely plays hundreds of multi's a week, im sure he is happy making plays that might be like 51% favs over the super long run. because i guess that adds up a little more over a crapload of sample size. but for most people that dont play a shit-ton of tournies, folding for a better spot and inching up the payscale is usually the better move.lolz Really?There is a HUGE difference between you and Rose, I mean both of you tilt me, but one tilts me more than the other, sometimes. She doesn't act like she knows how to play. You act like you know what you're doing and am willing to bet she's better than you. (Maybe a little too much exaggeration, but I think she can kick your ass.)better yet unless your in that exact situation. I have a feeling deep inside that I would of done the same as Vt and shoved but without knowing all the right reasoning. I find it an interesting hand to disectNow I know I will be shoving if I am in a similiar situation.Shut up Rose!!I find myself in similar situations at times (shortish stack, decent starting hand). I am interested in knowing how open shoving here compares to an opening raise with the intention of shoving a safe flop?I actually think he's asking a legit question. Others have already answered.HE WAS ZAGGING AND NOT ZIGGING DAMNITEXACTAMUNDO!!maybe according to pokerstove this is profitable play.but what about game theory? especially with 4 other 10bb stacks at the table that A)could easily go busto before youB)will be calling lighter so less fold equityC)if u wanna get super technical with poker stove, dont you have a hand that is more likely to be dominated when called? A9/QT-QA etc. dont tell me there range only starts at 77 and AJ. If they have there eyes open they know you are a maniac who shoves with shit in that spot, how are they folding A9 and QJ suited in that spot to your robot style of play? would a hand like 67s be more profitable for you?D) plus the other 4 10bb stacks might also use your gay shovein theory weak with no openers, and you can be the one calling them and having them dominated just a few hands later.E) plus who's to say you wont pick up an actual decent hand shortly later, and even if you have folded away 20% of your stack by then, now your stack is just short enuff that when you pick up AJ -somein in the blinds sees you are so short they have a hard time folding TJ or Ace rag.its my personal experience that the worse play of all occurs at the final table in a multi, mostly because of the money being on the line and more often than not, people play worse with that pressure. there are other reasons too, like fatigue, being happy with what you've made already, etc..(maybe they play a little worse in other tourny spots, but with the huge money on the line, the mistakes here are magnified and much more bigger)that is why i think its more valuable to just stick around and survive more often cuz i know some 10bb stack is gonna be shoving weak soon, or someone is gonna make some other donk play cuz they are happy with 5place money or whatever.Ok, I definitely KNOW Rose is better than you.it's only simple math if your math focus, which I am not. yes I have my own mind but most of you don't get it in the 1st place becauseI am a woman and of course you men have No fing clue, How we think, process, or formulate any of our thoughts. Nor can you ever figure us out. I do admit when I make mistakes, or if I screw up, or if I am indecisive. sometimes it takes a while but I do see it.If your on tilt go to bed and stay there. As for your stage and age you currently think you are smarter and better well let me enlighten you a wee bit, your no better than anyone else, so there Mike. You may be good at on line poker but it doesn't make you a better person. Or and your comment about DN it's obvious you need to re read what he wrote because you didn't get that either. Sometimes I think some people actually don't get the messages of us older ones put out there as it goes over your heads or you just think your better than us oldies. and again getsprung has to show his dramatic point, let others make there point without you also putting your nose into it. You don't need to be a constant shove in my face it doesn't look good on you either. It makes you look like a bully out to get me.People I will defend myself and speak my mind so that's me, you can take it or shove it. I am a women who will not let guys step on her, or stop me in my way of learning the most I can about the game of poker that I love my way.Rose, please get it out of your head that poker strategy is about age or gender. Read some books, read the tourney strat thread please. It seems that you haven't even grasped the basic knowledge of beginning poker, you want to jump straight into the deep end of the pool. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Thanks for giving us the heads up!pinche cabron.I knew I should not HAVE voted for you as featured player of the month!!PUTO!! Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Rose, please get it out of your head that poker strategy is about age or gender.Idk man I think you need to rethink your strategy. These are factors pretty much the first things I think about when I being to play a hand. Link to post Share on other sites
rcgs59 15 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Both PRICELESSFYPQFTlolz Really?There is a HUGE difference between you and Rose, I mean both of you tilt me, but one tilts me more than the other, sometimes. She doesn't act like she knows how to play. You act like you know what you're doing and am willing to bet she's better than you. (Maybe a little too much exaggeration, but I think she can kick your ass.)Shut up Rose!!I actually think he's asking a legit question. Others have already answered.EXACTAMUNDO!!Ok, I definitely KNOW Rose is better than you.Rose, please get it out of your head that poker strategy is about age or gender. Read some books, read the tourney strat thread please. It seems that you haven't even grasped the basic knowledge of beginning poker, you want to jump straight into the deep end of the pool.classic Gallo Straight up a point I do like about you , see you in HU amigo lol Link to post Share on other sites
gibler321 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 i read the whole thread, and all i have to say is that i shove Q9s there Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 i read the whole thread, and all i have to say is that i shove Q9s thererofl Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 i read the whole thread, and all i have to say is that i shove Q9s therePokerstove lies! F*ck the math Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 a few things:-i thought sgfulton left-am i the only person who reads the first sentence in all of rose's posts and just skips them?-how can you accept all in with out seeing the floop Link to post Share on other sites
BeaverStyle 1 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 all i can say is lol on soooo many levels. Link to post Share on other sites
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