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Whatever dude. You posted a link. Then said it had nothing to do with Toxic Waste clean up. Then that it did. I am trying to keep up, but you keep running. It was you who wanted to use the specific to define the general, not I.
actually, the more i read up about this, the more i am starting to realize that all this may in fact be about toxic waste...and illegal fishing. here's one article, there are many more available with just a little bit of research:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/13-6
False....The US Military was there IN RESPONSE TO the Deadly Action by the Pirates. Even if the details of the final confrontation are a complete fabrication (and I do not beleive that this is the case) the Pirates set into motion the final deadly (successful) results.
OK, what 'deadly force' are u referring to? what evidence can u provide that the pirates killed first?your second quoted sentence is a little disturbing; u r fine with a 'complete fabrication'???
Potato/Potahto
what is your definition of 'blood ransom'?
I fear and mistrust my government, but in this case I believe enough of their story to be comfortable with blowing the heads off of a few Terrorist Pirates. I don't think the Pirates were there to serve the Captain and Crew a fresh fish dinner.
the old 'terrorist' label..really, u can do better than that. u r comfortable with murder if u only grasp, and in your mind accept, the most superficial of 'facts'?
Then, frankly, you should be more aware than most here that when communicating using the written word, what you chose to say and how you chose to say it will have a great effect on the perception and credibility of yourself and your message.
true, but again, this is an internet forum, and the message is clear....plus i am at work and do not have the time to 'cross every t and dot every i' in my posts. again, the message is clear.
Because your historic as well as current delivery IS anti-American. In context you are sympathizing with the Bad guys. You've called me (and others) ignorant and a racist. You aren't just showing "another side of something" you're trolling or at least being condescending and offensive - I don't feel like turning the other cheek today.
'Bad guys'? so now in addition the the 'terrorist' label, u r throwing around Bush-era terms like 'bad guys'?????it is u (and others) who choose to see what i post as anti-american. why can't u believe that america is not perfect or moral in all instances? what is more fairytale-like, believing that your country does not do ANYTHING 'immoral', or that they are a shining beacon of hope to all, and would never ever do anything that is considered un-just? who here is living in a dream world? all the proof u need is your country's history. and i am not trying to single out america, many (all?) countries are immoral in one way or another. but america is the most powerful, and doesn't hesitate to use it's power on the most helpless of people.a little history lesson for u:http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/618359
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Because in your particular case, you almost never present "the other side" of a given issue as much as you're just mindlessly and viscerally contrarian to the point of abject idiocy. You regularly present ideas/notions and cite sources that are completely laughable.Like, for example, "WELL, AL JAZEERA SAID..."
what is truly sad here is that many do not even realize how trust-worthy a news source al-jazzera really is. since your media tells u not to believe 'them' u fall for it perfectly. utterly mindless. congrats on being played so well by your few media conglomerates.do yourself a favour and try looking into al-jazerra's journalistic standards. most of the world trusts them, and in fact regularly presents them with journalistic awards. they have even been nominated for an emmy, which is an american award. and the insults....so predictable when someone cannot reply with any form of intelligence or proof about what they are spouting. was your post supposed to a 'gotcha' type thing? lol.
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stuff...
I started working on a detailed reply, but decided it was not worth the effort. Not because you are doing anything to make any sort of point, but rather because you chose to completely ignore any point being presented for debate and instead focus on seemingly purposely misinterpreting what I am actually saying and then trying to refocus on sentence fragments rather than a whole concept.So instead, since you're too lazy to actually respond in any meaningful manner and insist on being pedantic, I figured I'd be lazy too and reuse this response since it is close enough:
Because in your particular case, you almost never present "the other side" of a given issue as much as you're just mindlessly and viscerally contrarian to the point of abject idiocy. You regularly present ideas/notions and cite sources that are completely laughable.Like, for example, "WELL, AL JAZEERA SAID..." I mean, if objectivity, journalistic standards and truth in reporting are somewhat standard in their application, Al Jazeera makes Pravda look like the beeb. The thing is- with you- is that you sincerely believe the shit you type. Like, in your mind, you are confident that you're making "points" and presenting valid counter-arguments, without bothering to pay attention to whether or not the things you say would stand up to the editorial scruitiny posed by the retarded, drooling, braindead, wheelchair bound kid on the 8th grade Student Newspaper who was only allowed to participate because his parents sued the school. Unlike others who muckrack for the sport of it, you really are that delusional. You're like a leftist version of Don Quixote, only unarmed and probably deathly afraid of horses in real life, though you likely have pastel themed posters of them hanging up in your bedroom.
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What kinda irks me is that I actually wrote out a tirade about how your response would be the typical delusional-leftist reply, where you accuse me of being "brainwashed" and sucked-in by "propaganda". I actually typed that, but for the sake of making things a bit more succinct, I deleted it, damnit. It is amusing how amazingly predictable you people are- you definitely do all your thinking by 'association' rather than by analysis. You know that whenever your oh-so-fragile conception of the world is ever threatened, you can always call it "opinion" or just dismiss it by replying with "YOU'RE BRAINWASHED!!!" or "HAHAHAHA THAT'S JUST PROPAGANDA PUT THERE BY BUSH AND YOU BELIEVE IT HAHAHAHAHAHA!!"Really, Al Jazeera isn't exactly a totally reliable news source when it comes to stuff like this. While they're probably being truthful in reporting on the sage words of wisdom as provided by Mr. Abdi Garad and his claims that Americans just killed the pirates "for sport" (which, honestly, is OK by me) , it's the fact that they regularly (and almost as a matter of principle) give voice to any person who is willing to espouse anti-American sentiment is what makes Al-J questionable in their practices.Ya see, it isn't wrong to say "America did this wrong" or "America did that wrong," but Al-J's motives can be legitimately questioned when they ignore the rest of the human condition and immediately default to "America is wrong" as a matter of principle, and to take it a step further, actually found a news service that purports itself to be "unbiased" when in reality, they're regularly giving open-ended airtime to any raghead willing to crawl out of his cave and make a declarative claim- without vetting any of what he says for accuracy."AL JAZEERA REPORTS THAT WAAFA AL HAJII EL MOHAMMED BIN RASHEED SAID THAT AMERICAN SOLDIERS WERE SHOOTING NUNS IN A PUPPY/KITTY NURSERY BUT THE CIA CAME IN AND COVERED IT UP BEFORE ANYONE COULD GET EVIDENCE TO PROVE IT!!!"To someone like you, this is a profound indictment, really confirming what your hilariously inaccurate view of the world. You would cite something like this as evidence, proving how evil America really is. You would defend Al Jazeera to your drying breath, since really, they're one of the "few" who have the "courage" to report something like this...... while the rest of the world approaches these things with a bit more suspicion. One of the greatest things about the left is that, at their center, they question things. There is a line where the wonderful practice of "questioning things" devolves into mindless contrarianism against whatever perceived (usually imaginary) boogiemen you've built up in your own minds. You crossed this line long ago. It's when someone stops questioning things as a matter of principle, but rather starts believing everything they're told so long as what they're being told runs contrary to the "institutions" and "systems" and "the man" they're rebelling against. If someone told you that there is concrete proof of an American conspiracy against Arab peoples right off the edge of that cliff, you're perfectly willing to jump off to find out.All of that, plus, you're a total fucking retard.
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All of that, plus, you're a total fucking retard.
Best part of that post. :club:
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Really, Al Jazeera isn't exactly a totally reliable news source when it comes to stuff like this. While they're probably being truthful in reporting on the sage words of wisdom as provided by Mr. Abdi Garad and his claims that Americans just killed the pirates "for sport" (which, honestly, is OK by me) , it's the fact that they regularly (and almost as a matter of principle) give voice to any person who is willing to espouse anti-American sentiment is what makes Al-J questionable in their practices."AL JAZEERA REPORTS THAT WAAFA AL HAJII EL MOHAMMED BIN RASHEED SAID THAT AMERICAN SOLDIERS WERE SHOOTING NUNS IN A PUPPY/KITTY NURSERY BUT THE CIA CAME IN AND COVERED IT UP BEFORE ANYONE COULD GET EVIDENCE TO PROVE IT!!!"
i haven't looked at your 'nun' story, but do these sound pretty far-fetched in your mind???"A former soldier... was accused in federal court Monday of executing an Iraqi family so he and other troops could rape and murder a young woman they had been eyeing at a traffic checkpoint.""...Green took three members of the family _ an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old _ into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside."Green came to the bedroom door and told everyone, 'I just killed them. All are dead,'" the affidavit said.""After the rape, (the soldier) witnessed Green shoot the woman in the head two to three times," the affidavit said."The Washington Post reported the rape victim was 15 and that her mother worried her daughter had attracted the attention of U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint."http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6070300399.html"...five Iraqi men, a taxi driver and four teenagers, were ordered out of their car and shot dead in the street principally by Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich""Eman Waleed, a nine-year-old child who witnessed the incident, described the US marines entering their house. She said: "I couldn't see their faces very well - only their guns sticking in to the doorway. I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny."""In particular, the video shot by Thabet shows the bodies of the children and women with gunshot wounds, bullet holes in the interior walls of the house, and bloodstains on the floor."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings"The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder of 347 to 504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam, entirely civilians and some of them women and children, conducted by U.S. Army forces on March 16, 1968.Many of the victims were sexually abused, beaten, tortured, or maimed, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.""He fired at it [the baby] with a .45. He missed. We all laughed. He got up three or four feet closer and missed again. We laughed. Then he got up right on top and plugged him.""Soldiers went berserk, gunning down unarmed men, women, children and babies. Families which huddled together for safety in huts or bunkers were shown no mercy. Those who emerged with hands held high were murdered. ... Elsewhere in the village, other atrocities were in progress. Women were gang raped; Vietnamese who had bowed to greet the Americans were beaten with fists and tortured, clubbed with rifle butts and stabbed with bayonets. Some victims were mutilated with the signature "C Company" carved into the chest. By late morning word had got back to higher authorities and a cease-fire was ordered. My Lai was in a state of carnage. Bodies were strewn through the village.""Dozens of people were herded into an irrigation ditch and other locations and killed with automatic weapons.[17] A large group of about 70 to 80 villagers, rounded up by the 1st Platoon in the center of the village, were killed personally by Calley and by soldiers he had ordered to fire."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massac..._investigationshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_MassacreThere are many more instances of actions/cover-ups by the US forces. I find it laughable that u would dismiss similar accusations, with such a clear history of this sort of thing.keep your head in the sand if it makes u feel better.
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i haven't looked at your 'nun' story, but do these sound pretty far-fetched in your mind???"A former soldier... was accused in federal court Monday of executing an Iraqi family so he and other troops could rape and murder a young woman they had been eyeing at a traffic checkpoint.""...Green took three members of the family _ an adult male and female, and a girl estimated to be 5 years old _ into a bedroom, after which shots were heard from inside."Green came to the bedroom door and told everyone, 'I just killed them. All are dead,'" the affidavit said.""After the rape, (the soldier) witnessed Green shoot the woman in the head two to three times," the affidavit said."The Washington Post reported the rape victim was 15 and that her mother worried her daughter had attracted the attention of U.S. soldiers at a checkpoint."http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6070300399.html"...five Iraqi men, a taxi driver and four teenagers, were ordered out of their car and shot dead in the street principally by Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich""Eman Waleed, a nine-year-old child who witnessed the incident, described the US marines entering their house. She said: "I couldn't see their faces very well - only their guns sticking in to the doorway. I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny."""In particular, the video shot by Thabet shows the bodies of the children and women with gunshot wounds, bullet holes in the interior walls of the house, and bloodstains on the floor."
All of these quotes and all of these crimes were committed by a few men (mostly just one). You can call them war crimes or murder or both. Green has been arrested, and will quite likely be executed by the US government for his crimes. I imagine that the others face similar prosecutions, but I'm not gonna spend all night investigating it. I guess that means my head is in the sand.
There are many more instances of actions/cover-ups by the US forces.
This was one criminally-insane soldier, and I don't see any cover-up - quite the opposite. What is your point here?
Sure, that's another fucked up situation. Some people have certainly been held responsible. Others have not.Again, what's your point? That even American soldiers, inarguably the best soldiers on the planet, sometimes go insane and commit crimes and refuse orders? Because that's the only thing you're proving.
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All of these quotes and all of these crimes were committed by a few men (mostly just one). You can call them war crimes or murder or both.
all it takes is a 'few men'. "...26 US soldiers initially charged with criminal offences for their actions at My Lai.." Is 26 soldiers a few? just wondering at what threshold 'a few' becomes 'many' etc.. The photographer: 'Haeberle later testified that he personally saw about 30 different American soldiers kill about 100 civilians.'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_L._Haeberlei am not trying to be rude, insensitive, or anything like that...but..9/11 can be said to have been carried out by just 'a few men'...does that lesson the severity somehow?you can say 'it was only a few' to almost anything. remember, these are just some of the horror stories we have heard. they were not supposed to be made public. how many times do you think similar actions are carried out, yet not reported? It is only sensible to conclude that these just barely scratch the surface of what actually takes place.
Green has been arrested, and will quite likely be executed by the US government for his crimes. I imagine that the others face similar prosecutions, but I'm not gonna spend all night investigating it.
From the My Lai massacre:After a four-month-long trial, in which he claimed that he was following orders from his commanding officer, Captain Medina, William Calley was convicted, on March 29, 1971, of premeditated murder for ordering the shootings. He was initially sentenced to life in prison. Two days later, however, President Nixon made the controversial decision to have Calley released from prison, pending appeal of his sentence. Calley's sentence was later adjusted, so that he would eventually serve four and one-half months in a military prison at Fort Benning.In a separate trial, Captain Medina denied giving the orders that led to the massacre, and was acquitted of all charges, effectively negating the prosecution's theory of "command responsibility", now referred to as the "Medina standard". Several months after his acquittal, however, Medina admitted that he had suppressed evidence and had lied to Colonel Henderson about the number of civilian deaths.Most of the enlisted men who were involved in the events at My Lai had already left military service, and were thus legally exempt from prosecution. In the end, of the 26 men initially charged, Calley's was the only conviction.Some have argued that the outcome of the My Lai courts-martial was a reversal of the laws of war that were set forth in the Nuremberg and Tokyo War Crimes Tribunals.Those tribunals set a historic precedent, establishing the principle that no one may be excused from responsibility for war crimes because they were "following orders". Secretary of the Army Howard Callaway was quoted in the New York Times as stating that Calley's sentence was reduced because Calley honestly believed that what he did was a part of his orders — a rationale that stands in direct contradiction of the standards set at Nuremberg and Tokyo, where German and Japanese soldiers were executed for similar acts.
I guess that means my head is in the sand.
if u continue to believe in the 'white shinning knight' image of the US and everything it does, then yes, your head would still be in the sand.the quote i just posted gave a clear example of how the american gov changes the rules whenever it sees fit. they executed german and japanese soldiers based on the same criteria that their own soldiers were charged with. and their soldiers got off?
This was one criminally-insane soldier, and I don't see any cover-up - quite the opposite. What is your point hereSure, that's another fucked up situation. Some people have certainly been held responsible. Others have not.Again, what's your point? That even American soldiers, inarguably the best soldiers on the planet, sometimes go insane and commit crimes and refuse orders? Because that's the only thing you're proving.
my point is that it is not just 'a few' or 'one criminally-insane soldier'...the US has massacred wedding parties in iraq and afganistan, at least one attack lasting more than 4 hrs...mostly women and children killed in these types of attacks.another point is that it seems like americans can easily brush aside the atrocities and war crimes committed by it's military/gov, yet get all up in arms over anything anyone else does. that's hypocritical and immoral, can we now just brush that aside as well?i am not arguing that the US military is not the world's most powerful, or that it's soldiers are the best trained in terms of classical european-style war (i.e. not jungle, desert or mountains). all i posted originally was news; it was reported. this is an internet forum, the idea is to share/spread different ideas and views. these news articles mentioned other aspects of the 'incident' that generally do not appear in western media. it was others who immediately went on the attack, without even considering any news source that contradicted what their media told them to think.
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all it takes is a 'few men'. "...26 US soldiers initially charged with criminal offences for their actions at My Lai.." Is 26 soldiers a few? just wondering at what threshold 'a few' becomes 'many' etc.. The photographer: 'Haeberle later testified that he personally saw about 30 different American soldiers kill about 100 civilians.'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_L._Haeberle
You really really don't need to go on a rant about the My Lai massacre. You're not educating anybody on that. Note how you linked to the My Lai massacre, I ignored that part of your post and talked about the more recent and therefore relevant things, and then you reply again about the My Lai massacre. Yes, and napalm was pretty horrible too. I mean, I am and have always been strongly against the Iraq war, but that has nothing to do with what you're talking about. You're ranting about war crimes. Nobody is denying their existence. Scram's whole point was that you should be critical of any news you read. You apparently took his sarcasm for a challenge to an angry-rant-battle.
if u continue to believe in the 'white shinning knight' image of the US and everything it does
Almost nobody here believes that.
my point is that it is not just 'a few' or 'one criminally-insane soldier'...the US has massacred wedding parties in iraq and afganistan, at least one attack lasting more than 4 hrs...mostly women and children killed in these types of attacks.
Right, I'm sure that all the time in Iraq we send Marines to fire on wedding parties for hours on end. Especially at women and children. You say that you are worried about people having a perverted world-view where America is perfect, well it really seems like you have a perverted world-view where America is evil. Like, you really really really think that it's common for us to purposefully fire at women and children? Really? Yes, our government has done some horrible things. Yes, our government usually doesn't like to admit to doing horrible things. Shocking. Wait, not really...the same can be said of pretty much any major world power ever.
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You really really don't need to go on a rant about the My Lai massacre. You're not educating anybody on that. Note how you linked to the My Lai massacre, I ignored that part of your post and talked about the more recent and therefore relevant things, and then you reply again about the My Lai massacre. Yes, and napalm was pretty horrible too.
My Lai was one of the better documented cases. I am pointing out that these things occur, and provided examples.
I mean, I am and have always been strongly against the Iraq war, but that has nothing to do with what you're talking about. You're ranting about war crimes. Nobody is denying their existence. Scram's whole point was that you should be critical of any news you read. You apparently took his sarcasm for a challenge to an angry-rant-battle.
u don't think the iraq invasion/occupation has anything to do with war crimes? what justification was used for this entire mess? what about the protection of civillians during an occupation? holding an election during an occupation? etc...i am not trying to participate in an 'angry-rant-battle'. i get my news from multiple sources, incl cnn, fox, etc...i always look at them knowing there is usually a bias or slant to the reporting, but that isn't a reason to outright dismiss them.
Almost nobody here believes that.
really? then why, every single time i post something about the US that it's military/gov has done that is amoral, there are many angry replies, even denials?
Right, I'm sure that all the time in Iraq we send Marines to fire on wedding parties for hours on end. Especially at women and children. You say that you are worried about people having a perverted world-view where America is perfect, well it really seems like you have a perverted world-view where America is evil. Like, you really really really think that it's common for us to purposefully fire at women and children? Really?
look at the US gov/military history. i never said the US fires on wedding parties 'all the time', but there have been MANY instances of this. and yes, for hrs on end, and yes, at women and children. you say u do not believe that the US is the knight in shining armor, but again u try to deny what has been so thoroughly documented, or at least dismiss it as something that should really be overlooked.and the US has purposely fired on women and children before, r u denying that? if so, so some basic research on it.
Yes, our government has done some horrible things. Yes, our government usually doesn't like to admit to doing horrible things. Shocking. Wait, not really...the same can be said of pretty much any major world power ever.
i agree...all i originally did was post news..
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look at the US gov/military history. i never said the US fires on wedding parties 'all the time', but there have been MANY instances of this. and yes, for hrs on end, and yes, at women and children. you say u do not believe that the US is the knight in shining armor, but again u try to deny what has been so thoroughly documented, or at least dismiss it as something that should really be overlooked.and the US has purposely fired on women and children before, r u denying that? if so, so some basic research on it.
Really, there have been MANY instances of the US firing on wedding parties for hours on end, at women and children? Please provide links, because you're insane. Sorry - please provide current links. I don't really want to hear about My Lai again, I learned about that in 10th grade (does that tell you something else about how America "ignores" its own war crimes?). Also, it was four decades ago. We are talking about the Iraq and Afghanistan wars here. I'm not sure what I'm denying or what I dismissed as "something that should really be overlooked." My point is that out of all the bullets fired and bombs dropped and people killed in Iraq by American soldiers, very very very few of them were aimed purposefully at unarmed civilians just for the purpose of killing people for fun, or whatever reason you think we do it in "MANY instances." I'm not denying that war crimes occur. I'm not denying that soldiers, or even commanding officers can and do go off the reservation. I am denying that our military is totally all about murdering children.
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i am not trying to participate in an 'angry-rant-battle'. i get my news from multiple sources, incl cnn, fox, etc...i always look at them knowing there is usually a bias or slant to the reporting, but that isn't a reason to outright dismiss them.
Interesting that the only news source you've posted from here is Al J. Could it be that you aren't as unbiased as you claim to be? Your Al J news links might have more credibility if there were other sources for the same material as well. So far you've not provided any(except for a decades old war crime).
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Really, there have been MANY instances of the US firing on wedding parties for hours on end, at women and children? Please provide links, because you're insane. Sorry - please provide current links.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174954http://www.countercurrents.org/us-clougley271004.htmhttp://www.newamerica.net/publications/art...ep_us_safe_7900
I'm not denying that war crimes occur. I'm not denying that soldiers, or even commanding officers can and do go off the reservation. I am denying that our military is totally all about murdering children.
i also deny that the US military is '...totally all about murdering children', i never said that.look, we disagree and will not change our opinions. let's leave it at that.
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