Tt

[trystero 0]

25 nl 6max 100 effective bbs Villain is TAGgish, likes to talk to his friends at the table, let them know he's good. I think the laydown's fairly easy, considering his 3-bet pf and our history - in two other pots over 150 hands, he had check folded on similar boards to me OTF, so he's probably expecting me to bet.Hero raises UTG 0.85 with T T :heart:4 foldsSB 3-bets to $3Hero callsFlop [ 8 6 3 ]SB checksHero bets $4SB raises to $10Hero foldsWe can't play it any other way, can we. I don't like the whole 'bet for information' thing, but I could see this hand becoming costly if villain fires two bullets and I have no clue where I am in the hand. Plus our hand IS vulnerable to overcards.

[mtdesmoines 3]

25 nl 6max 100 effective bbs Villain is TAGgish, likes to talk to his friends at the table, let them know he's good. I think the laydown's fairly easy, considering his 3-bet pf and our history - in two other pots over 150 hands, he had check folded on similar boards to me OTF, so he's probably expecting me to bet.Hero raises UTG 0.85 with T T :heart:4 foldsSB 3-bets to $3Hero callsFlop [ 8 6 3 ]SB checksHero bets $4SB raises to $10Hero foldsWe can't play it any other way, can we. I don't like the whole 'bet for information' thing, but I could see this hand becoming costly if villain fires two bullets and I have no clue where I am in the hand. Plus our hand IS vulnerable to overcards.

We lost this hand PF. I think we either fold or shove PF when villain 3 bets. There's nowhere near enough $ to set mine and calling puts you exactly in this spot or worse 99% of the time.We need to pin down his 3 bet range pretty clearly to come over the top PF.

[SwolyswoND 1]

We lost this hand PF. I think we either fold or shove PF when villain 3 bets. There's nowhere near enough $ to set mine and calling puts you exactly in this spot or worse 99% of the time.We need to pin down his 3 bet range pretty clearly to come over the top PF.

I disagree. In position, I think a 4bet here is pretty bad, and I also think you're off slightly that there aren't enough odds to set mine. PF Hero is calling $2.15 more with $22 stacks behind, so close to 11-1. In position we shouldn't need much more implied odds than the standard 8.5-1 odds of flopping the set - since there are certainly also times we are up against AQ/AK and can play the hand correctly with our position.As played, why did we bet the flop? Just check behind and reevaluate the turn and river. I'm probably calling down unless a Q,K, or A comes.

[trystero 0]

I bet because of the reason you mentioned in another thread where OP didn't bet AJ; may not get the best value, but makes the hand much easier to play. My experience w/villain led me to believe that if he had whiffed overs he'd c/f (for a 2+2 hudbot he c/f'd w/alarming frequency). I don't mind that, especially with a vulnerable overpair like TT where 16 overs can come on the turn (jack isn't so scary, but AsJs isn't totally impossible I guess). Now if he bets like $6 on the turn we have to call, assuming it's a blank - but what about on the river? Do we safely assign him QQ+ if he fires another shell? So that's why I bet the flop; it's $4 designed to take the pot down, charge the stubborn A/K (which I admit doesn't happen much), and define his range so I don't make bigger mistakes down the road. It just didn't feel right because when I DID bet, I said to myself, "you know you're doing this for INFORMATION," and poker gospel says to never bet or raise for information.Pf is standard I think, not sure. 4-bet is flat out bad without any reads. Villain's positionally aware so he's going to give me some credit coming out from UTG (or should be). In position we can play the hand fairly straightforwardly postflop.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Fair enough, I don't think I'd play it that way, but I can see the reasoning.The reason why I feel this is different than the AJ thread you referenced is in that other hand, Hero had the PF betting lead and was (standardly) checked to.In this hand we have an UTG raiser getting 3bet from the blinds (a VERY strong move) and then the 3bettor checks on a flop that seems super-standard to c-bet on. That screams like a screwplay to me. The fold is mandatory after being c/r'ed. I'd personally take the free card, reeval on the turn, and who knows, maybe that way we can even spike the miracle T.

[trystero 0]

Now that you mention it, I think you're right - a check flop + call blank turn + fold to pressure on the river is the way to go. This way we do have the added, albeit slight, bonus of spiking the ten on both the turn AND river. Villain's mistake was in giving me the potential to grab two cheap cards (avg of $3 per street). Missed the chance to draw out on qq.

[CaseAce 0]

It just didn't feel right because when I DID bet, I said to myself, "you know you're doing this for INFORMATION," and poker gospel says to never bet or raise for information.

I don't hate the lead. When dealing with passive villains who tend to check fold most flops they don't stomp, I c-bet/lead 100% of the time no matter what I have until I'm stopped. This also works well when dealing with the question on another thread about donk betting. By doing this so often, I am setting myself up perfectly to maximize value when I do lead/c-bet with the nuts.

[CaseAce 0]

Now that you mention it, I think you're right - a check flop + call blank turn + fold to pressure on the river is the way to go. This way we do have the added, albeit slight, bonus of spiking the ten on both the turn AND river. Villain's mistake was in giving me the potential to grab two cheap cards (avg of $3 per street). Missed the chance to draw out on qq.

Yea, a little pot control in this particular situation wouldn't have been bad either.

[Dictius 0]

PF is ok with me, if we 4bet the best we can expect is he calls/ships with AK and we are more or less flipping.I think we have to bet the flop, his hand looks like a missed AK/AQ so much when he checks so we should bet imo.His small check/raise puts us in a tough-ish spot because he could still be doing this with AK/AQ and JJ+, I'd guess his range is more heavily weighted towards JJ+ than AQ+, but you should have a better idea of this than me.

[Solar 0]

Now that you mention it, I think you're right - a check flop + call blank turn + fold to pressure on the river is the way to go. This way we do have the added, albeit slight, bonus of spiking the ten on both the turn AND river. Villain's mistake was in giving me the potential to grab two cheap cards (avg of $3 per street). Missed the chance to draw out on qq.

Don't forget that we could also be giving our opponent the chance to snag one of 6 outs. However I think I do prefer checking back the flop.Its a pretty weird line from him. With some read (ie, hes lead the flop after 3betting with overpairs before) I would put him in here. Very marginal though. I fold most of the time in this spot.

[CaseAce 0]

With some read (ie, hes lead the flop after 3betting with overpairs before) I would put him in here. Very marginal though. I fold most of the time in this spot.

"he had check folded on similar boards to me OTF, so he's probably expecting me to bet."Does this qualify? Is villain capable of such a play? From your comments about being a decent tag, I'd say he probably is. I've been trying to find a shove here, but I just don't think I have enough to condone it. I can't shake the feeling you're getting steamrolled though. I think this is one of the times you just have to let yourself be bluffed

[trystero 0]

He had me beat, of that I'm 99% sure. After the hand he had said, "ur ak no good" and in a later pot, like 30 hands later, he had done the same move to someone else - raise pf, check ten high board, then c/r. Other player had shown down TP and our villain had QQ. He only said I had AK because he figured, like every other 25nl player in the world, I'd felt any overpair, so once I folded I HAD to hold AK.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Pre-flop is just fine. We're in position getting 12.1-1 with not just a set-mining hand but quite possibly the best hand. We're also probably better than our opponent.On the flop, I'm okay with varying between checking or charging an amount that makes the overs pay too much to peel. If we had AA-QQ, I'm more okay with letting a free card come off. Once our pairs start getting lower, I start leaning more towards betting...especially if we're comfortable that he'll c/f a decent portion and only c/r when we're beat. This wouldn't be the case of merely an info bet. We do gain info and it makes the hand easier to play, but we'd also be value-betting. Once he pops, we need to fold as we did. All that said, if you want to check, call/fold, call/fold, that's okay too.

[Danege 1]

I've been trying to find a shove here, but I just don't think I have enough to condone it.

Think about it like this. If we shove we either A) want him to fold better, or B) call with worse. If villian will call with AK/AQ and fold JJ+ then a shove is fine. Except he wont, so a shove is terrible.