Question About Bankroll Managment.

[strappazon 0]

Hello,First sorry for my poor English but i'm French. I hope i'm posting this in the right section too...Actually i'm playing at 0.05$/0.1$ on PokerStars and my "bankroll" is about $50. When am i supposed to play at higher stakes? I mean how many BB do i need to be able to play at let's say 0.10$/0.25$?Thanks.

[Chris-LFC 0]

i'd say you need about $500 if you're a decent playa

[strappazon 0]

i'd say you need about $500 if you're a decent playa

Does it means that i should play at lower stakes? If my bankroll is only about $42 (i lost money this afternnon) maybe should play at 0.02$/0.05$? Maybe less?

[Chet Chetterson 0]

You usually want to buy in for at least 100 BB when you join the table. So that $10.00 for the .05/0.10 tables. Then you usually want at least 20 buy ins in your bankroll because of variance (bad swings where you lose a lot in a short period of time). You don't want to have a large percentage of your bankroll on a table at any one time. Thus you should probably have at least $200 for the 0.05/0.10 tables, and even more if you are at more than one table at a time. I would definitely drop down in limits or deposit more to where you can comfortably play at 0.05/0.10. Conceptually, you can buy in for less than the 100 BB but that's is not suggested since you want to maximize your profits when you hit a winning hand, which is less effective when you have less money to start with.

[strappazon 0]

Thank you Chet, that's all i wanted to know. I was reading stuff about that. I guess i'll have to play at 0.01$/0.02$ so my bankroll will be exactly egal to 20 buy-in becasue actually i can't deposit more.Too bad i'm not Daniel Negranu playing micro stakes!

[Banner17 0]

You could also remember that since it's a small limit game, and your bankroll can be easily replenished that you may not necessarily have to adhere to strict bankroll management rules. If you go bust playing .05-.10 NL with $50, you can always deposit another $50 and keep playing. Bankrolls have more meaning when you're playing for a source of income, and the money is not easily replenished. Say like, 25-50 NL buying in for $5,000 with a roll of 100k.

[strappazon 0]

You could also remember that since it's a small limit game, and your bankroll can be easily replenished that you may not necessarily have to adhere to strict bankroll management rules. If you go bust playing .05-.10 NL with $50, you can always deposit another $50 and keep playing. Bankrolls have more meaning when you're playing for a source of income, and the money is not easily replenished. Say like, 25-50 NL buying in for $5,000 with a roll of 100k.

Well, the fact is i can't afford to deposit money every month. That's why i want learn to manage my small bankroll. My goal (in months or years) would be to make a little 200 euros a month... if that's possible. I've never lost money playing poker since i've started to play (like 3-4 years ago) but i'e never won a lot of money either.

[TheDonk1989 0]

You still should use strict bankroll management no matter how micro stakes you play. That way you will be a successful and winning player. Eventually you will lose and if you have correct management it WILL NOT effect you. When you first start out with $50 you should be doing .02/.05, thats what I did. Or you can do single table sng's with up to 5% of your bankroll and multi table tournaments with 2% of your bankroll. Only advance levels when you have about 1000 or 1500 big blinds. I always multitable 6 to 9 tables so this is what I use. If you lose, go back down a level and grind it back up.Using this bankroll management I'm at $243. When I get to $375 or $400 im gonna up my level to .10/.25

[strappazon 0]

Yeah, that's what i'm doing. I've also installed Poker Tracker to study the way i play. It's a great software! Actually i'm at $47.74 and still playing at 0.02$. Does it means that when i will be at $50+ i should play at 0.05?I've also played one SnG and finished 2 out of 9. I think i'll play more tournaments because i really like it.

[antistuff 0]

You still should use strict bankroll management no matter how micro stakes you play. That way you will be a successful and winning player. Eventually you will lose and if you have correct management it WILL NOT effect you. When you first start out with $50 you should be doing .02/.05, thats what I did. Or you can do single table sng's with up to 5% of your bankroll and multi table tournaments with 2% of your bankroll. Only advance levels when you have about 1000 or 1500 big blinds. I always multitable 6 to 9 tables so this is what I use. If you lose, go back down a level and grind it back up.Using this bankroll management I'm at $243. When I get to $375 or $400 im gonna up my level to .10/.25

i strongly disagree. first of all bankroll management does not make you a winning player. you can use perfect bankroll management and still lose a lot of money. remember that very few people win at poker. i've heard its around 5% but my experience makes me suspect its less than that. second...if you know you are a winner you should be aggressive in your shot taking. when you look at the numbers and realize you are making like $1.50 an hour its just a waste of your time. the idea of a bankroll is kind of abstract anyway. if you are a winning nl50 player and keep playing depositing only $50 at a time eventually you will end up with the 1k youre supposed to have to play at that level. the difference here is that he can't deposit again. even so, i would say err on the aggressive side and take lots of shots and just step back down when it doesn't work. like start with $50 as your baseline. when you have $60 in your account take the $10 and buy into a nl10 game. if that works out buy into a nl25 game. now you maybe have $100 in your account. play more nl10 and take occasional shots at nl25. of course this only applies if you know you can beat these games.

[TheDonk1989 0]

i strongly disagree. first of all bankroll management does not make you a winning player. you can use perfect bankroll management and still lose a lot of money. remember that very few people win at poker. i've heard its around 5% but my experience makes me suspect its less than that. second...if you know you are a winner you should be aggressive in your shot taking. when you look at the numbers and realize you are making like $1.50 an hour its just a waste of your time. the idea of a bankroll is kind of abstract anyway. if you are a winning nl50 player and keep playing depositing only $50 at a time eventually you will end up with the 1k youre supposed to have to play at that level. the difference here is that he can't deposit again. even so, i would say err on the aggressive side and take lots of shots and just step back down when it doesn't work. like start with $50 as your baseline. when you have $60 in your account take the $10 and buy into a nl10 game. if that works out buy into a nl25 game. now you maybe have $100 in your account. play more nl10 and take occasional shots at nl25. of course this only applies if you know you can beat these games.

I follow Chris Ferguson's bankroll management. If your trying to build up a bankroll this is how you should do it. Taking aggressive shots is NOT the way to build a bankroll. You may make money but eventually you will go broke. You need to have enough money so that if you lose a buy in its not 25% of your bankroll. When your making $1.50 an hour thats not exactly bad... seeing how your just trying to grind your bankroll up and eventually you will be making more when you finally get to the higher stakes.Your bankroll management: Take risks! If you win a little bit don't keep it, gamble with it! If it works out its fine if it doesnt just keep going back down! My bankroll management: Take it slow. Dont risk much of your bankroll. Only advance stakes when your bankroll can support it. Sorry but if you think bankroll management is abstract then your probably a losing player. A strict bankroll management doesn't make you a winning player but its the first step to becoming one. I dont play bingo... I play poker.

[strappazon 0]

i strongly disagree. first of all bankroll management does not make you a winning player. you can use perfect bankroll management and still lose a lot of money. remember that very few people win at poker. i've heard its around 5% but my experience makes me suspect its less than that. second...if you know you are a winner you should be aggressive in your shot taking. when you look at the numbers and realize you are making like $1.50 an hour its just a waste of your time. the idea of a bankroll is kind of abstract anyway. if you are a winning nl50 player and keep playing depositing only $50 at a time eventually you will end up with the 1k youre supposed to have to play at that level. the difference here is that he can't deposit again. even so, i would say err on the aggressive side and take lots of shots and just step back down when it doesn't work. like start with $50 as your baseline. when you have $60 in your account take the $10 and buy into a nl10 game. if that works out buy into a nl25 game. now you maybe have $100 in your account. play more nl10 and take occasional shots at nl25. of course this only applies if you know you can beat these games.

ok. Well, i don't know what to think. Actually i won money playing at $0.02 but the amount won is rediculously (sp?) small. Actually i'm not very good with stats but it tells me :(5 sessions played (since i use PT3)- Amount won = $6.31- $/hour = 0.88If you ask me i'll tell you, yeah i feel like playing at $0.05 or even at $0.1.....I first started to play at this level and it worked well...until i lost half of my bankroll in one session. I know it doesn't makes sense to look at stats after only 5 sessions so i'm not gonna tell you "i'm a winning player' but i think i have skills. Problem if i don't want to get broke.If you have any advices...

[TheDonk1989 0]

ok. Well, i don't know what to think. Actually i won money playing at $0.02 but the amount won is rediculously (sp?) small. Actually i'm not very good with stats but it tells me :(5 sessions played (since i use PT3)- Amount won = $6.31- $/hour = 0.88If you ask me i'll tell you, yeah i feel like playing at $0.05 or even at $0.1.....I first started to play at this level and it worked well...until i lost half of my bankroll in one session. I know it doesn't makes sense to look at stats after only 5 sessions so i'm not gonna tell you "i'm a winning player' but i think i have skills. Problem if i don't want to get broke.If you have any advices...

Wheres your bankroll at right now? If your under $50 you should play 2nl.

[trystero 0]

Strappazon don't listen to antistuff. His advice is very good when applied to the right person - I don't think you're it. He's right in the sense that you should be aggressively tackling higher limits if you are indeed a winning player. The difference among 10nl, 25nl, and even 50nl is small in that you're not going to be taking home significant "real money." Your goal is to get to the higher limits as soon as possible so that you can start profiting from poker in a meaningful way. But by doing this you are in danger of going broke. There's no way you're going to build a bankroll confidently if you're constantly taking shots at bigger limits. Further, you don't know your leaks, how much of a winning player you are, and whether you can even beat higher games. Just so you know, all of the micros (say 50nl and below) are very beatable, but in different ways. 10nl is harder than 5nl (supposedly), 25nl is harder than 10nl, etc. But these limits require you to employ different strategies. IMO you should move up when 1) you have enough money for the next limit (debatable, I know), 2) when you can confidently beat your current limit, and 3) when you feel good about your chances to beat the NEXT limit.

[antistuff 0]

I follow Chris Ferguson's bankroll management. If your trying to build up a bankroll this is how you should do it. Taking aggressive shots is NOT the way to build a bankroll. You may make money but eventually you will go broke. You need to have enough money so that if you lose a buy in its not 25% of your bankroll. When your making $1.50 an hour thats not exactly bad... seeing how your just trying to grind your bankroll up and eventually you will be making more when you finally get to the higher stakes.Your bankroll management: Take risks! If you win a little bit don't keep it, gamble with it! If it works out its fine if it doesnt just keep going back down! My bankroll management: Take it slow. Dont risk much of your bankroll. Only advance stakes when your bankroll can support it. Sorry but if you think bankroll management is abstract then your probably a losing player. A strict bankroll management doesn't make you a winning player but its the first step to becoming one. I dont play bingo... I play poker.

and i don't pay my bills with a paycheck.

[antistuff 0]

Strappazon don't listen to antistuff. His advice is very good when applied to the right person - I don't think you're it. He's right in the sense that you should be aggressively tackling higher limits if you are indeed a winning player. The difference among 10nl, 25nl, and even 50nl is small in that you're not going to be taking home significant "real money." Your goal is to get to the higher limits as soon as possible so that you can start profiting from poker in a meaningful way. But by doing this you are in danger of going broke. There's no way you're going to build a bankroll confidently if you're constantly taking shots at bigger limits. Further, you don't know your leaks, how much of a winning player you are, and whether you can even beat higher games. Just so you know, all of the micros (say 50nl and below) are very beatable, but in different ways. 10nl is harder than 5nl (supposedly), 25nl is harder than 10nl, etc. But these limits require you to employ different strategies. IMO you should move up when 1) you have enough money for the next limit (debatable, I know), 2) when you can confidently beat your current limit, and 3) when you feel good about your chances to beat the NEXT limit.

i tried to hint at all this in my "if you know you're a winning player" :)maybe it applies to you maybe it doesn't. do consider this no matter what strategy you use, especially the part i bolded. it usually shocks most players when they come up against a limit they can't beat right away for the first time. you will be miles ahead of the curve if you recognize it, accept it, and then figure out how to fix it. but if you have been playing for years and know for a fact you can kick the crap out of nl100 you would be incredibly foolish to waste time making $1.50 an hour when you could be hitting close to $40 or even more depending on how many tables you can handle.

[TheDonk1989 0]

and i don't pay my bills with a paycheck.

Chris Ferguson made $1 to $20,000 using the bankroll management I said above...It's deffinately not a bad approach to managing a bankroll.

[Snake Plissken 0]

i tried to hint at all this in my "if you know you're a winning player" :)maybe it applies to you maybe it doesn't. do consider this no matter what strategy you use, especially the part i bolded. it usually shocks most players when they come up against a limit they can't beat right away for the first time. you will be miles ahead of the curve if you recognize it, accept it, and then figure out how to fix it. but if you have been playing for years and know for a fact you can kick the crap out of nl100 you would be incredibly foolish to waste time making $1.50 an hour when you could be hitting close to $40 or even more depending on how many tables you can handle.

antistuff, I always thought you were a limit player. Am I right? Do you have experience with shot taking in NL/PL games? Anyway you seem to know a bit about shot taking and you are confident in your opinion so I'd like to ask you what you'd recommend me. I'm crushing 50NL (11.66BB/100 over 18,5k hands this month). I'm obv on a heater but I'm still crushing the game. The thing is a used to have a very bad BR management so I've been broke many times. My bankroll management is now very strict and I have a little more than 40BI in my BR (and yes I know I shold have more $ in my BR if I crush the game that bad but I don't since I've cashed out a bunch and I might take to many shots at the bigger buy in tournaments). I'm 6-tabling short handed and I'm very laggy. So yeah I have a 2k bankroll on the site I play most and I will have a lot more within the following months if I continue the grind with the same BR management. So... back to my question: would you recommend me to jump in the 0,5/1 games?

[strappazon 0]

Wheres your bankroll at right now? If your under $50 you should play 2nl.

I'm exactly at $49.52. I also played 4 tournaments and i've been in the money two times (second and third place).I don't know if it could help but here are my graphs/stats :cash-games :Tournaments:

[antistuff 0]

antistuff, I always thought you were a limit player. Am I right? Do you have experience with shot taking in NL/PL games? Anyway you seem to know a bit about shot taking and you are confident in your opinion so I'd like to ask you what you'd recommend me. I'm crushing 50NL (11.66BB/100 over 18,5k hands this month). I'm obv on a heater but I'm still crushing the game. The thing is a used to have a very bad BR management so I've been broke many times. My bankroll management is now very strict and I have a little more than 40BI in my BR (and yes I know I shold have more $ in my BR if I crush the game that bad but I don't since I've cashed out a bunch and I might take to many shots at the bigger buy in tournaments). I'm 6-tabling short handed and I'm very laggy. So yeah I have a 2k bankroll on the site I play most and I will have a lot more within the following months if I continue the grind with the same BR management. So... back to my question: would you recommend me to jump in the 0,5/1 games?

my main game is actually plo8. i think the real question is what do you feel is stopping you from trying? if you put in that kind of volume and win like that i'm pretty certain you could lose some at the next limit up and it not sting that much. i would also be pretty surprised if you were a flat out loser at the next limit. you don't have to step up and just play only nl100. you can play one or two tables of that for a bit to see whats what. if you stalked me in plo8 you would see me bounce all over from 25-400, although most of my hands are at 100. also, i wouldn't be so quick to attribute a 18.5k stretch to a heater. find something different that you are doing. maybe poker related, maybe life related. make a list of anything different from this month than other months. a quick guess but things like sleep, session length, and maybe just feeling good about something are good places to start.

[antistuff 0]

Chris Ferguson made $1 to $20,000 using the bankroll management I said above...It's deffinately not a bad approach to managing a bankroll.

it will work. but its very conservative. there is a lhe player that posts here who started out last january playing .50/1. he's taking shots at 100/200 now. now granted he obviously has a mind for this sort of thing that most people just don't but even with that he couldn't have gotten there without a much more aggressive approach to br management. if you knew you could beat 25/50 nlhe but you only had $500 to your name would you really wait until you had 20 buyins at each limit? (of course not, you would find somebody to stake you, but lets pretend you couldn't. doing something similar to what i outlined would be the way for you to go).

[antistuff 0]

I'm exactly at $49.52. I also played 4 tournaments and i've been in the money two times (second and third place).I don't know if it could help but here are my graphs/stats :cash-games :Tournaments:

well, you're off to a good start

[TheDonk1989 0]

it will work. but its very conservative. there is a lhe player that posts here who started out last january playing .50/1. he's taking shots at 100/200 now. now granted he obviously has a mind for this sort of thing that most people just don't but even with that he couldn't have gotten there without a much more aggressive approach to br management. if you knew you could beat 25/50 nlhe but you only had $500 to your name would you really wait until you had 20 buyins at each limit? (of course not, you would find somebody to stake you, but lets pretend you couldn't. doing something similar to what i outlined would be the way for you to go).

Using this bankroll will pretty much ensure that I wont go broke. Even though I'm a winning player I just wanna work my way up to those levels.When I do advance levels I want to have a bankroll that can support it. It's not about how fast you can get to the next level, its about just getting your bankroll up and making it to the next level. Not going broke is a big thing too.I deffinately like your approach, just a little too risky for me.

[Snake Plissken 0]

my main game is actually plo8. i think the real question is what do you feel is stopping you from trying? if you put in that kind of volume and win like that i'm pretty certain you could lose some at the next limit up and it not sting that much. i would also be pretty surprised if you were a flat out loser at the next limit. you don't have to step up and just play only nl100. you can play one or two tables of that for a bit to see whats what. if you stalked me in plo8 you would see me bounce all over from 25-400, although most of my hands are at 100. also, i wouldn't be so quick to attribute a 18.5k stretch to a heater. find something different that you are doing. maybe poker related, maybe life related. make a list of anything different from this month than other months. a quick guess but things like sleep, session length, and maybe just feeling good about something are good places to start.

I used to play HU a lot at 50NL and there was a regular there and he was the loosest and the most bluff crazy guy I've ever played. He made a good profit at 50NL and 100NL but I always smacked him around. He was an ok player but def not good. The thing is players couldnt handle his aggression but I could. I made the sickest calls ever against mr bluff and I was up a lot of buy ins vs him. He was a good guy in the chat as well and he always said he couldnt believe I still played 50NL. So we talked further and he said I should join him on a couple of tables at 1/2 HU. It was a good deal since he wanted a chance to get some $ back quickly and I had a huge edge in the game. So I joined him and lost oh so much. I played well but it was just one of those days. He hit everything, I hit nothing. That's HU poker. Goddamn I was pissed and tilted after that. It was the right thing to do but it didnt turn out the way I planned. But I've recovered since that session. I'm gonna take some shots. If I loose 3 BI I'm back to 50NL.

[Snake Plissken 0]

antistuff, I did follow your advice and just played 500 hands 0,5/1. Won about $90 so I'm happy about that. Players are def more aggro at 100NL but still there is a lot of fish. I liked this hand...PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) ($129.50)BB ($101.50)UTG ($101.50)MP ($119.15)Button ($112.55)Preflop: Hero is SB with 4, 73 folds, Hero bets $3, BB calls $2Flop: ($6) Q, 3, 6(2 players)Hero bets $4, BB calls $4Turn: ($14) 7(2 players)Hero bets $8, BB calls $8River: ($30) 10(2 players)Hero checks, BB bets $18, Hero calls $18Total pot: $66 | Rake: $2Results:Hero had 4, 7 (one pair, sevens).BB had A, 9 (high card, Ace).Outcome: Hero won $64Standard to some ppl here, but others might find it interesting... And yes I play 47off in SB vs BB sometimes. That's how I roll and I like it. Standard c-bet on flop and I actually value bet turn. And then I catch his bluff and feel good about it