cdipierr 0 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Playing a really loose passive live 1/2 NL game. I get dealt AQ (diamonds, but doesn't matter for this pot) in MP. I limp behind another two limpers. If I had raised to 10/15 here, I doubt the action becomes different seeing how the table was, but in any event, I limped. A few other limpers and button limps, SB completes. In total, I believe there are 7 players.Pot: $14Flop is Qh Td 5hChecked to me. I lead for 10. I get called in 3 spots including by button who had just sat down about 3 hands ago.Pot: $54Turn 2cBB checks, I bet $35.Called by button. BB calls all-in for $12.Pot: $138River 2sI check (bad check? No draws got there, but I want to keep it cheap). Button bets $90. I have $112 total.What's our action here? And where did I goof this hand up (aside from a PF raise).No reads, like I said, button just sat down for all intents and purposes, but he is the generic young guy with sunglasses, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Surely you checked the river to induce a bluff from missed hearts or missed straight?I can't see a reason not to call. Villain never has a AA/KK/X2/TT/QQ from the button. He might have 55 but I think he raises somewhere. BB might have T2 or something but w/e. I'd think we're up against KQ or QJ if he's v-betting and so much of his range is a missed draw. I call. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 ez call here. What's the button repping with his line? That was a drawy board he never showed aggression, if he plays a monster like that, well, he's getting paid this time. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Ah2h?You have to raise preflop, there's no good reason not to, including getting value from your big hand, and getting those behind you and blinds to fold. Even AA isn't a favorite against 6 callers.Hard to say if you're ahead here. I'm really feeling 102 or Ah2h here. Q10 maybe as well, but hard to say we're not getting a raise somewhere else. We're getting better than 2:1 and I guess a younger button is perfectly capable of betting hard with QK or QJ here, thinking you're just an overaggressive donk. Link to post Share on other sites
cdipierr 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 I called, he flipped over KK and fist pumped. BB didn't show.Am I supposed to just say to myself "That's nice, he slowplays KK from the button 6 handed" and reload? Stuff like that seriously tilts me. Just life at 1/2? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I called, he flipped over KK and fist pumped. BB didn't show.Am I supposed to just say to myself "That's nice, he slowplays KK from the button 6 handed" and reload? Stuff like that seriously tilts me. Just life at 1/2?You got worked. FWIW, I'm not folding either. I don't condone his play. It was retarded.PS: stop limping AQ in multiway limped pots. Link to post Share on other sites
CaseAce 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I called, he flipped over KK and fist pumped. BB didn't show.Am I supposed to just say to myself "That's nice, he slowplays KK from the button 6 handed" and reload? Stuff like that seriously tilts me. Just life at 1/2?Yup. Because next time that spot rolls around, you will have bet pre and may have been able to get away from it with the extra information. Or if you limped and are still there in the end, you will either be folding a missed draw this time with 112 left or stacking him with QT... It was terrible play all the way through with KK, and his money will be changing hands shortly. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 I called, he flipped over KK and fist pumped. BB didn't show.Am I supposed to just say to myself "That's nice, he slowplays KK from the button 6 handed" and reload? Stuff like that seriously tilts me. Just life at 1/2?He sucks for limping with KK in this hand.However, you mightve been able to lose less by raising preflop and having him act accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites
SpatsJ 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 He sucks for limping with KK in this hand.However, you mightve been able to lose less by raising preflop and having him act accordingly.agreed. as played - im not getting away from this hand either. Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yup. Because next time that spot rolls around, you will have bet pre and may have been able to get away from it with the extra information. Or if you limped and are still there in the end, you will either be folding a missed draw this time with 112 left or stacking him with QT... It was terrible play all the way through with KK, and his money will be changing hands shortly.No. KK>QT on a QT522 board...Anyways, villain is a 'tard. And everyone in this forum would have paid him off too. Don't beat yourself up on this one. Link to post Share on other sites
bigcoled 1 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Surely you checked the river to induce a bluff from missed hearts or missed straight?I can't see a reason not to call. Villain never has a AA/KK/X2/TT/QQ from the button. He might have 55 but I think he raises somewhere. BB might have T2 or something but w/e. I'd think we're up against KQ or QJ if he's v-betting and so much of his range is a missed draw. I call.I think this is really wrong imo...Edit: Did he have the K of hearts? He can't really bluff the river, your check shows him he has the best hand... Like you said a loose PASSIVE table, just like you think if you raise the action the hand goes the same, doesn't mean he can't think the same with his Kings, I'm not saying it's a good play w/ KK, but table conditions make players play weird, in a hand with so many limpers, I'm committing as few chips as possible to this hand when my opportunity to isolate is so small... You're looking to have the best hand at the river, this is a terrible board and I save as much money as possible the whole way through, just as the Button did, and wait for a sign of surrender before deciding where I stand... All in all you miss your chance to take the whole pot by checking the river, if you can't 3 barrel this when the heart misses you shouldn't have bet the turn imo... Link to post Share on other sites
jack24bauer24 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I guess you have to call this river but I think that playing a full buy in pot which is limped pre when you only have one pair is not something I enjoy doing. I think you misplayed the hand preflop and the guy with KK is clearly horrible. Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I think this is really wrong imo...Well, that's easy to say once you've seen results! But would you ever put someone on KK when they limped the button in a multi-way pot? Link to post Share on other sites
CaseAce 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No. KK>QT on a QT522 board...Oops, should probably start proofreading posts before clicking submit. Link to post Share on other sites
gooch 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 You got worked. FWIW, I'm not folding either. I don't condone his play. It was retarded.PS: stop limping AQ in multiway limped pots.*bumps knux* Link to post Share on other sites
cdipierr 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 No K of hearts.In any event, yes I should have raised PF, but let's say the action went like this:A couple limpers, so I raise to 12. Get called in a couple (is there any reason to assume he'll raise in this spot?) spots and the pot is $48 or so on the flop. Not sure how I save money in that spot as I have to lead bigger on the flop and turn anyway. Maybe I'm wrong and he just repops preflop and I can get away from it there? As to the guy who said it was an ok play with KK due to the passive table...maybe, but as I said it was like the guy's 4th hand, so he had no deep read on the table at that point. Limping KK on the button here can't possibly be +EV even if you get away cheap on a scary board. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 No K of hearts.In any event, yes I should have raised PF, but let's say the action went like this:A couple limpers, so I raise to 12. Get called in a couple (is there any reason to assume he'll raise in this spot?) spots and the pot is $48 or so on the flop. Not sure how I save money in that spot as I have to lead bigger on the flop and turn anyway. Maybe I'm wrong and he just repops preflop and I can get away from it there? As to the guy who said it was an ok play with KK due to the passive table...maybe, but as I said it was like the guy's 4th hand, so he had no deep read on the table at that point. Limping KK on the button here can't possibly be +EV even if you get away cheap on a scary board.Limping KK is -EV because it's a very good hand and you only get it so often, so it demands higher return on every street. Link to post Share on other sites
A_Bullets_A 0 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 If you're not folding I think you need to just shove all in on the river. If you're going to call his bet anyways, then there's no reason at all for checking with these stack sizes. If you're behind he's gonna put you all in anyways and if you're ahead you're just giving him a free showdown when he may have paid you off.Also, someone mentioned that he could be bluffing a missed a draw, but checking is pretty much never inducing a bluff from him in this situation. Someone was already all in on the turn so he's not likely to make a $90 bet to steal a $46 sidepot. Because of that, you pretty much know he's never bluffing which actually makes me want to fold if the tables is as passive as you were saying. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 No K of hearts.In any event, yes I should have raised PF, but let's say the action went like this:A couple limpers, so I raise to 12. Get called in a couple (is there any reason to assume he'll raise in this spot?) spots and the pot is $48 or so on the flop. Not sure how I save money in that spot as I have to lead bigger on the flop and turn anyway. Maybe I'm wrong and he just repops preflop and I can get away from it there?I guess it's just as likely that villain with KK would flat your raise IP if he just limped in..but maybe he was on some sort of tilt too where he convinced himself that there was no profit to raising KK because he was sure everyone would call, but if you raised, he felt better about a reraise from him thinning the field. Anyway, I think you can at the very least put him on a tighter range polarized toward quality holdings if you made a decent raise preflop. On this board it would've been hard to get away from AQ, oop, against a random 1/2 NL opponent...but if the turn and river had started to straighten the board more or produced a king, along with the tighter range you have to give villain, you mightve saved some money. In general, getting away from AQ while oop on a Q high, pretty dry flop is difficult, so don't beat yourself up, but don't lose the money you'll make up in the future by raising with AQ preflop and getting paid off by QK/QJ on the same kind of hand. Link to post Share on other sites
bigcoled 1 Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 this is a live 1/2 nl table. This is the smallest stakes usually spread for nl... expecting people to be making +ev plays or even know what ev is with no read is -ev... Link to post Share on other sites
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