Responsibilities To Our Friends?

[bigcoled 1]

Hey guys, reading Daniel's blog in relation to what's happening with Hellmuth, more specifically his credibility as a poker player and as a decent human being, I was wondering what responsibility do we have to our friends we play with in terms of stepping in and saying, "you need to get a little help bro", or "you need to take a little time off and reassess yourself"?. Being poker players we know we're chasing a floating/moving target, but for some their own personality, their own tenacious characteristics can drive them into the ground. An ego in poker is a curse because being the best in the world has no more value than being the best at your table. As poker players we have to adapt to being profitable players, selecting games that are profitable for us. Some players find success at certain games or certain points in time and find no success outside of that and then have their egos drive them into the ground. They're like someone stuck in quick sand, just flailing around in the games trying to be successful, when in reality all they're doing is helping the quick sand suck them in, farther and farther and farther.At what point should Daniel say, "Listen Phil, you have no place being at the highest stakes playing against these guys, especially in a heads up or short handed format. You really need to take a step back, step down in stakes and build up your own strategy through experience playing these types of games. You aren't invincible, you aren't super man and these guys aren't just getting lucky... They are better than you! If you can't accept that we need to see about getting you some psychological help, because I am seriously worried about your mental state."This may seems dumb, but this is something all of us are going to run into, whether it's us or one of our friends. At what point do we try to jump in to save them? Or don't we? And how far should we go?

[wsox8 10]

I think Phil has played enough hands to "know" what he's getting himself into. He has a huge ego and can't take it that someone might be better than him. Let him learn the hard way by spewing off money because I'm sure he has plenty of it. I'm also not really sure how close Phil and Daniel are but if they were close then I think Daniel would say something if he felt the need to.

[nutzbuster 7]

Hey guys, reading Daniel's blog in relation to what's happening with Hellmuth, more specifically his credibility as a poker player and as a decent human being, I was wondering what responsibility do we have to our friends we play with in terms of stepping in and saying, "you need to get a little help bro", or "you need to take a little time off and reassess yourself"?. Being poker players we know we're chasing a floating/moving target, but for some their own personality, their own tenacious characteristics can drive them into the ground. An ego in poker is a curse because being the best in the world has no more value than being the best at your table. As poker players we have to adapt to being profitable players, selecting games that are profitable for us. Some players find success at certain games or certain points in time and find no success outside of that and then have their egos drive them into the ground. They're like someone stuck in quick sand, just flailing around in the games trying to be successful, when in reality all they're doing is helping the quick sand suck them in, farther and farther and farther.At what point should Daniel say, "Listen Phil, you have no place being at the highest stakes playing against these guys, especially in a heads up or short handed format. You really need to take a step back, step down in stakes and build up your own strategy through experience playing these types of games. You aren't invincible, you aren't super man and these guys aren't just getting lucky... They are better than you! If you can't accept that we need to see about getting you some psychological help, because I am seriously worried about your mental state."This may seems dumb, but this is something all of us are going to run into, whether it's us or one of our friends. At what point do we try to jump in to save them? Or don't we? And how far should we go?

fyp for better ease of reading imo.Did not read the blog and I have no idea what DN should or should not do, but true friends should always be there ready to step in and offer help and/or advice when needed, especially if they see someone head straight for a cliff. Friends should always look out for each other no matter what.

[theresa113 0]

but true friends should always be there ready to step in and offer help and/or advice when needed, especially if they see someone head straight for a cliff. Friends should always look out for each other no matter what.

Words to live by.

[phlegm 6]

Hey guys, reading Daniel's blog in relation to what's happening with Hellmuth, more specifically his credibility as a poker player and as a decent human being, I was wondering what responsibility do we have to our friends we play with in terms of stepping in and saying, "you need to get a little help bro", or "you need to take a little time off and reassess yourself"?. Being poker players we know we're chasing a floating/moving target, but for some their own personality, their own tenacious characteristics can drive them into the ground. An ego in poker is a curse because being the best in the world has no more value than being the best at your table. As poker players we have to adapt to being profitable players, selecting games that are profitable for us. Some players find success at certain games or certain points in time and find no success outside of that and then have their egos drive them into the ground. They're like someone stuck in quick sand, just flailing around in the games trying to be successful, when in reality all they're doing is helping the quick sand suck them in, farther and farther and farther.At what point should Daniel say, "Listen Phil, you have no place being at the highest stakes playing against these guys, especially in a heads up or short handed format. You really need to take a step back, step down in stakes and build up your own strategy through experience playing these types of games. You aren't invincible, you aren't super man and these guys aren't just getting lucky... They are better than you! If you can't accept that we need to see about getting you some psychological help, because I am seriously worried about your mental state."This may seems dumb, but this is something all of us are going to run into, whether it's us or one of our friends. At what point do we try to jump in to save them? Or don't we? And how far should we go?

Link?

[antistuff 0]

this was pretty funnyhttp://www.xtranormal.com/watch?e=20090313044801487i like these stephen hawking voice movie things. i'm sad that they're gonna get old and unfunny in like a month or so.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

When someone's head is made of rock certain things just don't get through. I've told Phil he isn't good enough to beat these games, but that doesn't mean he believes it's true. He legitimately thinks he cam win.

[navybuttons 15]

exactly like a slot machine.

[rcgs59 15]

When someone's head is made of rock certain things just don't get through. I've told Phil he isn't good enough to beat these games, but that doesn't mean he believes it's true. He legitimately thinks he cam win.

You could see he is headed for a major breakdown. He losing it at the tables in live events and on- line, calling people all kinds of names, swearing, paranoid and it really isn't called for. Many have lost respect for him and it isn't due to his poker playing abilitilies but his awfull mood swings and how he handles pressure. His ego is so out of control that he is becoming the laughing stock of poker rather than icon he should be. It is truly sad but he needs psychriatric help, he doesn't need to be shamefull of that either. One day some player will knock him flying and it is because the WSOP officials do not put the controls on his behaviours. They perhaps could tell him or even order him that in order to play in any further tournaments you are to take anger management classes or seek some type of psychological therapy. It 's the best thing for poker promotion and to save whats left of his career. If he choose not to get help, find that's his life then he no longer plays in the WSOP where he can damage the intregery of the sport, or disrupt or make it uncomfortable for any other player. It's sort of a tuff love approach but my guess it will hit him were it hurts and maybe he may see the light. Same with his close friends tell him to get help or sorry I can't be there for you, I can't watch you destroy your self anymore. I will no longer defend you. My thoughts on it but the WSOP needs to be tuffer with him no warnings just action.

[nutzbuster 7]

exactly like a slot machine.

lol.Heart Dustin

[nutzbuster 7]

When someone's head is made of rock certain things just don't get through. I've told Phil he isn't good enough to beat these games, but that doesn't mean he believes it's true. He legitimately thinks he cam win.

PHILHELLMUTH: U guys almost took my spirit with those moronic movesPHILHELLMUTH: but then I rmemberedPHILHELLMUTH: lolPHILHELLMUTH: wow U two are specialPHILHELLMUTH: U have no pridePHILHELLMUTH: thats why I winPHILHELLMUTH: U did it again man well donePHILHELLMUTH: QQ AK beatlol.He's quickly becoming very unlikeable by the masses imo. I know of no one who still enjoys his antics.As Buddah said, you are what you think you are, so it is true that you are what people think you are based on your actions.Sad way to handle an amazing WSOP career/legacy. He's becoming a cartoon of his former self.

[rcgs59 15]

PHILHELLMUTH: U guys almost took my spirit with those moronic movesPHILHELLMUTH: but then I rmemberedPHILHELLMUTH: lolPHILHELLMUTH: wow U two are specialPHILHELLMUTH: U have no pridePHILHELLMUTH: thats why I winPHILHELLMUTH: U did it again man well donePHILHELLMUTH: QQ AK beatlol.As Buddah said, you are what you think you are, so it is true that you are what people think you are based on your He's quickly becoming very unlikeable by the masses imo. I know of no one who still enjoys his antics.actions.Sad way to handle an amazing WSOP career/legacy. He's becoming a cartoon of his former self.

need I say any more than I did above lol

[rivergirl 2]

i'm kinda shocked that everybody seems to act like this is a "new" concept for phil to act like an ass at the poker table. He's been doing this for years and years. I've never had much respect for his personality, he's NEVER been a gracious loser. He at one time was a respected poker player, but i think that all went out the window when he started demanding respect instead of trying to earn it. As far as his playing goes, i think he was a great player, but has since relied on his "reputation" rather than adapting his game to meet the changes in the players and the game itself. I feel sad for him in some ways, i wish he would be able to put his ego aside and let his play speak for him, unfortunately, i think he's not capable of this.

[ahosang 0]

OP, I've no interest in Hellmuth's situation or DN specifically, but in response to your general question regarding friends:When a friend is stubborn about an issue, you must realise that in order to get your point across you may have to risk alienating that friend(he may see you as a non-believer in him). Even then he may never accept your points, so you can lose the friend as well as not helping him.Sometimes you have to accept that friends will not take advice on an issue, especially if it's contrary to their position. Sometimes all you can do is just try and finesse it so that you make a statement and make it clear that you respect their right to self-determination, but are in disagreement with their stance.I guess I haven't said much - it's a difficult thing to do. So much easier to argue against someone you don't know or don't like, lol.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

You can lead a horse to water, but sometimes all you wind up with is a dead, thirsty horse.

[brvheart 1,757]

i'm kinda shocked that everybody seems to act like this is a "new" concept for phil to act like an ass at the poker table. He's been doing this for years and years. I've never had much respect for his personality, he's NEVER been a gracious loser. He at one time was a respected poker player, but i think that all went out the window when he started demanding respect instead of trying to earn it. As far as his playing goes, i think he was a great player, but has since relied on his "reputation" rather than adapting his game to meet the changes in the players and the game itself. I feel sad for him in some ways, i wish he would be able to put his ego aside and let his play speak for him, unfortunately, i think he's not capable of this.

I disagree with this completely. Phil is a fantastic tournament hold 'em player. He just won is 11th bracelet within the last two years and constantly was going deep in tourneys at last summer's WSOP. Phil has never been great at cash games, especially short handed... at least according to DN and others' when he plays on HSP. I think Phil can take care of himself. He's always buying insurance on hands and wouldn't throw away money he didn't have.

[bigcoled 1]

When someone's head is made of rock certain things just don't get through. I've told Phil he isn't good enough to beat these games, but that doesn't mean he believes it's true. He legitimately thinks he cam win.

Obviously, I know nothing of your personal situation with Phil, and wouldn't pretend to know anything more than anyone else that reads blogs and watches poker on TV, so I didn't mean to come across as if you are in the wrong or liable for anything Phil does. I was just trying to bring light to the issue of delusion in the mind of gamblers/poker players. How many times have players gone broke and been told to give up poker, that it will never be a way to support yourself and then come back and end up making a great living at poker? The answer is, far fewer than those that will never be able to make a living at poker and will spend their lives getting bounced around poker circles used as an ATM. That's not to say Phil can't make a living at poker, as obviously that's untrue, he definatley has his niche in NLH tournaments. But if you have a friend who came into poker around the same time as you and you see him getting completely lost in terms of strategy and how to play the game profitably, and then you start overhearing people telling stories about how this guy, who you discern to be your friend, came in and lost a bunch of money and went to the ATM X number of times, when do you say, "listen man, do you realise you are nothing but a joke to these people, that you dont' belong here" or "gaining experience is one thing, but you have to learn to cut your losses" Because there are players that play with a huge amount of gamble, that will play anycards, they play basically the way the Farha comes off as playing on HSP. When they have a winning night, it's usually a huge win, but when they have losing nights, they are huge losses, and much more frequent then the winning nights. It's those winning nights that keep them playing, that keep them in the game... I want to make money as bad as the next guy but I don't want to see people go into complete ruin, completely destroy their life over a game... maybe I just wasn't cut out to be a poker player, I'm not cuttthroat enough... Furthermore, who am I to tell this guy he's not going to figure out the game, maybe he'll gain some insight into the game I never will by playing the way he does, but I just don't see it. Maybe things just need to run their course...

[brvheart 1,757]

Obviously, I know nothing of your personal situation with Phil, and wouldn't pretend to know anything more than anyone else that reads blogs and watches poker on TV, so I didn't mean to come across as if you are in the wrong or liable for anything Phil does. I was just trying to bring light to the issue of delusion in the mind of gamblers/poker players. How many times have players gone broke and been told to give up poker, that it will never be a way to support yourself and then come back and end up making a great living at poker? The answer is, far fewer than those that will never be able to make a living at poker and will spend their lives getting bounced around poker circles used as an ATM. That's not to say Phil can't make a living at poker, as obviously that's untrue, he definatley has his niche in NLH tournaments. But if you have a friend who came into poker around the same time as you and you see him getting completely lost in terms of strategy and how to play the game profitably, and then you start overhearing people telling stories about how this guy, who you discern to be your friend, came in and lost a bunch of money and went to the ATM X number of times, when do you say, "listen man, do you realise you are nothing but a joke to these people, that you dont' belong here" or "gaining experience is one thing, but you have to learn to cut your losses" Because there are players that play with a huge amount of gamble, that will play anycards, they play basically the way the Farha comes off as playing on HSP. When they have a winning night, it's usually a huge win, but when they have losing nights, they are huge losses, and much more frequent then the winning nights. It's those winning nights that keep them playing, that keep them in the game... I want to make money as bad as the next guy but I don't want to see people go into complete ruin, completely destroy their life over a game... maybe I just wasn't cut out to be a poker player, I'm not cuttthroat enough... Furthermore, who am I to tell this guy he's not going to figure out the game, maybe he'll gain some insight into the game I never will by playing the way he does, but I just don't see it. Maybe things just need to run their course...

wow... you need to learn how to make paragraphs.

[bigcoled 1]

wow... you need to learn how to make paragraphs.

Yea, I took a newspaper writing class in college... it has had me all effed up... they decide to hit the enter key when they feel like it j/k but they just put breaks in where it makes it easier for the reader to read, so I like to alternate? I have no good answer to that I guess... I thought I had it... I lost it...

[rcgs59 15]

I disagree with this completely. Phil is a fantastic tournament hold 'em player. He just won is 11th bracelet within the last two years and constantly was going deep in tourneys at last summer's WSOP. Phil has never been great at cash games, especially short handed... at least according to DN and others' when he plays on HSP. I think Phil can take care of himself. He's always buying insurance on hands and wouldn't throw away money he didn't have.

I disagree with youJust last night before the new episode of HSP on GSN was an episode with Hellmuth where he lost a hand and lost his cool even 10 minutes later he still was seen cussing and cursing that Gabe was commenting on it. There must of been 15 or more bleeps in that episode Just because he can play poker doesn't mean he is a decent person that should be respected. When he loses 1 hand he flips out and takes it out on someone else. He has shown this over and over again. He is more of a joke than a well respected poker player and it's his own fault, because that is the presentation he wants people to see of him. He is becoming the most hated as well as the most decorated poker player which is a very sad title to hold. Only he can correct that behaviour.

[brvheart 1,757]

I disagree with youJust last night before the new episode of HSP on GSN was an episode with Hellmuth where he lost a hand and lost his cool even 10 minutes later he still was seen cussing and cursing that Gabe was commenting on it. There must of been 15 or more bleeps in that episode Just because he can play poker doesn't mean he is a decent person that should be respected. When he loses 1 hand he flips out and takes it out on someone else. He has shown this over and over again. He is more of a joke than a well respected poker player and it's his own fault, because that is the presentation he wants people to see of him. He is becoming the most hated as well as the most decorated poker player which is a very sad title to hold. Only he can correct that behaviour.

whew...Also, I didn't say anything about Phil being a respected person, and I didn't say anything about Phil being good at cash games... which is what HSP is. I said the opposite.

[rcgs59 15]

i'm kinda shocked that everybody seems to act like this is a "new" concept for phil to act like an ass at the poker table. He's been doing this for years and years. I've never had much respect for his personality, he's NEVER been a gracious loser. He at one time was a respected poker player, but i think that all went out the window when he started demanding respect instead of trying to earn it. As far as his playing goes, i think he was a great player, but has since relied on his "reputation" rather than adapting his game to meet the changes in the players and the game itself. I feel sad for him in some ways, i wish he would be able to put his ego aside and let his play speak for him, unfortunately, i think he's not capable of this.

I disagree with this completely. Phil is a fantastic tournament hold 'em player. He just won is 11th bracelet within the last two years and constantly was going deep in tourneys at last summer's WSOP. Phil has never been great at cash games, especially short handed... at least according to DN and others' when he plays on HSP. I think Phil can take care of himself. He's always buying insurance on hands and wouldn't throw away money he didn't have.

I disagree with youJust last night before the new episode of HSP on GSN was an episode with Hellmuth where he lost a hand and lost his cool even 10 minutes later he still was seen cussing and cursing that Gabe was commenting on it. There must of been 15 or more bleeps in that episode Just because he can play poker doesn't mean he is a decent person that should be respected. When he loses 1 hand he flips out and takes it out on someone else. He has shown this over and over again. He is more of a joke than a well respected poker player and it's his own fault, because that is the presentation he wants people to see of him. He is becoming the most hated as well as the most decorated poker player which is a very sad title to hold. Only he can correct that behaviour.

whew...Also, I didn't say anything about Phil being a respected person, and I didn't say anything about Phil being good at cash games... which is what HSP is. I said the opposite.

the reason I disagree with you was because you disagreed with rivergirl and I think you missed her point. It has to do with his ego and the fact that he cannot accept losing 1 hand without any type of reaction. It is respect lost when he acts like an ass which down plays the acheivements such as the bracelets win or any other big wins. Sure he has done well but he has made more of an ass of himself which counter effects the brillance he once had. Now people see him as a Joke, jerk and don't care about his poker playing

[brvheart 1,757]

the reason I disagree with you was because you disagreed with rivergirl and I think you missed her point. It has to do with his ego and the fact that he cannot accept losing 1 hand without any type of reaction. It is respect lost when he acts like an ass which down plays the acheivements such as the bracelets win or any other big wins. Sure he has done well but he has made more of an ass of himself which counter effects the brillance he once had. Now people see him as a Joke, jerk and don't care about his poker playing

I bolded the part of her post that I was obviously responding to, in order to help you out. yw.Also, you're incorrect that 'people' don't respect his tournament ability.

[Potomophobia 17]

i'm kinda shocked that everybody seems to act like this is a "new" concept for phil to act like an ass at the poker table. He's been doing this for years and years. I've never had much respect for his personality, he's NEVER been a gracious loser. He at one time was a respected poker player, but i think that all went out the window when he started demanding respect instead of trying to earn it. As far as his playing goes, i think he was a great player, but has since relied on his "reputation" rather than adapting his game to meet the changes in the players and the game itself. I feel sad for him in some ways, i wish he would be able to put his ego aside and let his play speak for him, unfortunately, i think he's not capable of this.

Sorry rivergirl.......After I saw the "i" that led off your post, I quit reading.I'm now the official cranky old man and new grammar policeman of FCP!WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!(EDIT)I don't care how many bracelets Phil has won. He's a bigger Jackass than me.

[BaseJester 1]

i'm kinda shocked that everybody seems to act like this is a "new" concept for phil to act like an ass at the poker table. He's been doing this for years and years. I've never had much respect for his personality, he's NEVER been a gracious loser.

Yeah, absolutely. Phil a bad loser? What next? Water wet? Porcupines not cuddly pets? Fish living in the ocean?