An Apology Of Sorts..

[CaneBrain 95]

Actually I shouldn't... and that's the point. You shouldn't quickly disregard something that hasn't been disproven. See the Koran and it's flat Earth claims.All anyone needs to do to disproven the entire Bible is to find one thing that isn't true. The Bible claims that it is the inspired word of God. If it's wrong about something then the entire thing can be thrown out.The problem is that some people will be like, ok... God didn't make the Earth, it evolved. But that's not provable. The latest edition of Astronomy magazine questions the Big Bang. Scientist have no clue how anything happened... only guesses.http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=ci&id=24

sorry I would put a higher burden of proof on the "word of god" since it wields such tremendous influence. The burden should be on the bible and its proponents to prove it is true not the other way around because I am not trying to tell people how to live and the bible is.Same reason why the Vatican is held to a higher standard than the average group. The Vatican is claiming a special connection to god and the afterlife and claiming a monopoly on the big questions and general morality. Higher standard.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

All anyone needs to do to disproven the entire Bible is to find one thing that isn't true. The Bible claims that it is the inspired word of God. If it's wrong about something then the entire thing can be thrown out.

well there you go. lets throw it out then, because i can guarentee that the earth wasnt formed in the manner espoused in the bible. i'm glad that debate is finally over.

[brvheart 1,752]

well there you go. lets throw it out then, because i can guarentee that the earth wasnt formed in the manner espoused in the bible. i'm glad that debate is finally over.

You were there? It's hilarious that people can be so sure that they know how a supposed, hypothetical God would do things. This is like saying water cannot be turned into wine immediately, so we know that Matthew lied about Jesus doing that. Ok.. if that's your argument let's just agree that you're right and move on to a productive discussion. This is you saying that it's my job to prove that that is how God did it. It's not. It's YOUR job to prove that the God of the Bible didn't work miracles and didn't create the world. (since this can't be done... I would suggest you look for something easier to disprove.)

[BaseJester 1]

I'm not sure what this means... does it mean I have to renounce my belief in Jesus? I hope not.

No, not at all. But if you're going to criticize the Koran for science problems, then you put the Bible under the same scrutiny.

13: And the evening and the morning were the third day.14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Firmament

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

You were there? It's hilarious that people can be so sure that they know how a supposed, hypothetical God would do things. This is like saying water cannot be turned into wine immediately, so we know that Matthew lied about Jesus doing that. Ok.. if that's your argument let's just agree that you're right and move on to a productive discussion.

the immunable laws of physics seem to contradict the whole premise of your account. and doesnt the bible claim the earth is only 6000 years old?

[brvheart 1,752]

the immunable laws of physics seem to contradict the whole premise of your account. and doesnt the bible claim the earth is only 6000 years old?

No, on both counts. A hypothetical all-powerful God is not constrained by laws of physics. This is like Crow saying in the religion forums that the account that the sun stayed up in the sky for 24 hours is a lie because everything would have died. That would be absolutely correct... if God didn't create and wasn't in control of everything.

[brvheart 1,752]

No, not at all. But if you're going to criticize the Koran for science problems, then you put the Bible under the same scrutiny.Firmament

That's exactly what I want to do. Put the Bible to the test. Notice that I didn't mention the creation story in the Koran... because the creation of the Earth isn't anything provable or disprovable.A hypothetical God could create something however He wanted to.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

No, on both counts. A hypothetical all-powerful God is not constrained by laws of physics. This is like Crow saying in the religion forums that the account that the sun stayed up in the sky for 24 hours is a lie because everything would have died. That would be absolutely correct... if God didn't create and wasn't in control of everything.

so your answer for everything is that god has magic powers and we cant prove he doesnt. so anything going against science is irrelevant. seems a little thin to me. anorexic, if you will.

[Loismustdie 0]

Why does every thread dealing with faith with a decent chance of being productive for those of faith turn into this bullshit? Seriously, non-believers, we get it. Leave well enough alone. We realize you don't want to play, so don't. This is why I just stopped posting in the Religous forum. Basically, some of you just suck.

[brvheart 1,752]

so you're answer for everything is that god has magic powers and we cant prove he doesnt. so anything going against science is irrelevant. seems a little thin to me. anorexic, if you will.

I agree with you. That's why it should be easy to find something that is obviously wrong. If God isn't in control and didn't inspire the Bible, certainly 100's of men over a period of thousands of years would have said something... anything... that is obviously incorrect.... like the Earth is flat, or the Sun revolves around the Earth.Many items are not possible to prove or disprove. I agree.

[brvheart 1,752]

Why does every thread dealing with faith with a decent chance of being productive for those of faith turn into this bullshit? Seriously, non-believers, we get it. Leave well enough alone. We realize you don't want to play, so don't. This is why I just stopped posting in the Religous forum. Basically, some of you just suck.

Their posts definitely have condescension... but the current discussion isn't going terribly. Everyone needs to simply be respectful and it can work.

[antistuff 0]

Their posts definitely have condescension... but the current discussion isn't going terribly. Everyone needs to simply be respectful and it can work.

lol.to what end?im gonna agree with lois here. this is kinda dumb.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Why does every thread dealing with faith with a decent chance of being productive for those of faith turn into this bullshit? Seriously, non-believers, we get it. Leave well enough alone. We realize you don't want to play, so don't. This is why I just stopped posting in the Religous forum. Basically, some of you just suck.

i know, man. doesnt it just suck when people question your illogical claims?

I agree with you. That's why it should be easy to find something that is obviously wrong. If God isn't in control and didn't inspire the Bible. Certainly 100's of men over a period of thousands of years would have said something... anything... that is obviously incorrect.... like the Earth is flat, or the Sun revolves around the Earth.Many items are not possible to prove or disprove. I agree.

you know, i dont really have a problem with religion, per se. i have a problem with people who base everything off a book. whatever book that may be. i have no idea if there is a god or not. i personally dont think there is, but i could be wrong. but to live your life based on a book written thousands of years ago is just so beyond ridiculous i cannot even begin to comprehend it. how do you reconcile the seemingly conflicted messages presented within the bible? you say, well, i'm a human, i cant understand what god was thinking. no reason for me too. but to me that is akin to burying your head in the sand and giving up. i can only trust my reason, but thats me. keep hoping that a book is right if you want. in the end it wont really matter.

[BaseJester 1]

That's exactly what I want to do. Put the Bible to the test. Notice that I didn't mention the creation story in the Koran... because the creation of the Earth isn't anything provable or disprovable.A hypothetical God could create something however He wanted to.

Well, there's no firmament in the sky now. I suppose he could have taken it down later. Just some cosmic scaffolding, so to speak.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

Well, there's no firmament in the sky now. I suppose he could have taken it down later. Just some cosmic scaffolding, so to speak.

dude, gods more magical than harry potter. he can do whatever he wants.

[strategy 4]

You were there?

you may have prompted me to set my own record for biggest sigh. I don't need the book to be consistent with everything we know today to see it as something a person could live by, but that response is slightly absurd.not trying to be insulting. it's just that geology and natural geography in general is such a cool topic. I'd probably be there if I weren't interested in making money.

[antistuff 0]

dude, gods more magical than harry potter. he can do whatever he wants.

harry potter actually wasn't very good at the whole magic thing. i think that was one of the recurring and running themes through the series, that an average or even bellow average person can rise and amount to something instead of some superstar.

[CindyLou 11]

Everybody was in here trying real hard and stuff and then, bam, antistuff wins the thread.

[BaseJester 1]

harry potter actually wasn't very good at the whole magic thing. i think that was one of the recurring and running themes through the series, that an average or even bellow average person can rise and amount to something instead of some superstar.

I read only the first book, but I have to say I had exactly the opposite impression. Hermione works hard. Harry is destined.

[vbnautilus 48]

The problem is that some people will be like, ok... God didn't make the Earth, it evolved. But that's not provable. The latest edition of Astronomy magazine questions the Big Bang. Scientist have no clue how anything happened... only guesses.

I'd be happy to have the discussion with you about why believing in the literal truth of the bible is untenable.... but if you cannot tell the difference between "only guesses" and scientific theory then how can we even have this discussion? Your position seem to be that nobody knows anything, excepting that Christians know whats in the bible.

[theresa113 0]

I have never read Harry Potter nor have I ever watched a Harry Potter movie.

[vbnautilus 48]

Why does every thread dealing with faith with a decent chance of being productive for those of faith turn into this bullshit? Seriously, non-believers, we get it. Leave well enough alone. We realize you don't want to play, so don't. This is why I just stopped posting in the Religous forum.

Lois, come on, you started this. You made a post about how all the suffering you saw didn't jive with what you were taught about god. Obviously some of us are going to respond "yeah, that's because what you were taught about god is wrong. "If you wanted only responses that said "keep the faith, brother!" you should have posted this on a christian forum.

Basically, some of you just suck.

you see i know you aren't cut out for this whole christianity thing. get that monkey off your back man, there is light on the other side!

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

harry potter actually wasn't very good at the whole magic thing. i think that was one of the recurring and running themes through the series, that an average or even bellow average person can rise and amount to something instead of some superstar.

excuse me, sir. but i'm pretty sure harry was the chosen one. the one who could defeat he who must not be named. even dumbledore couldnt do that. so, yeah.

[brvheart 1,752]

I'd be happy to have the discussion with you about why believing in the literal truth of the bible is untenable.... but if you cannot tell the difference between "only guesses" and scientific theory then how can we even have this discussion? Your position seem to be that nobody knows anything, excepting that Christians know whats in the bible.

I didn't say this. I'm talking in hypotheticals.

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, there's no firmament in the sky now. I suppose he could have taken it down later. Just some cosmic scaffolding, so to speak.

Ah.. I had no idea what you were talking about because I've never heard of such a term. What version did you get that from?

you may have prompted me to set my own record for biggest sigh. I don't need the book to be consistent with everything we know today to see it as something a person could live by, but that response is slightly absurd.not trying to be insulting. it's just that geology and natural geography in general is such a cool topic. I'd probably be there if I weren't interested in making money.

You don't ever insult me. I kind of know where you're coming from. I agree Geology is cool. I simply don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that an all-powerful God would make a planet that was already 'mature'.