Religion And Intelligence

[vbnautilus 48]

Came across this interesting article in a recent issue of the journal Intelligence. Lynn, Harvey, & Nyborg. (2009) Average intelligence predicts atheism rates across 137 nations. Intelligence, 37. AbstractEvidence is reviewed pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the United States and Europe. It is shown that intelligence measured as psychometric g is negatively related to religious belief. We also examine whether this negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief is present between nations. We find that in a sample of 137 countries the correlation between national IQ and disbelief in God is 0.60.That's a very strong correlation, and had p value of less than .001, meaning that results this strong will happen by chance less than .1% of the time. The relationship holds both within the U.S. and European populations they examined, and across all 137 countries. Discuss.

[Balloon guy 158]

IQ ratings are improved with schooling. ie..knowing a lot of stuff at an early age.schools teach there is no Godtherefore people who go to schools are more likely to be atheist when they first come out and haven't yet discovered that most of what they were taught in school is opinion.equals slanting of said study.

[checkymcfold 0]

IQ ratings are improved with schooling. ie..knowing a lot of stuff at an early age.schools teach there is no Godtherefore people who go to schools are more likely to be atheist when they first come out and haven't yet discovered that most of what they were taught in school is opinion.equals slanting of said study.

you obviously didn't go to school in southwest virginia.as to the bolded, it makes me slap my head. relativism's only good when it suits your needs, eh?

[vbnautilus 48]

IQ ratings are improved with schooling. ie..knowing a lot of stuff at an early age.schools teach there is no Godtherefore people who go to schools are more likely to be atheist when they first come out and haven't yet discovered that most of what they were taught in school is opinion.equals slanting of said study.

Well remember that IQ is not about knowledge. The tests are designed to measure "g" - intellectual ability independent of knowledge. It is possible that school is teaching them some critical thinking skills and that they use that to purge themselves of irrational beliefs. The study does also show a developmental change -- as adolescents get older their IQ goes up and their belief in religion goes down. The atheist kids scored 6 points higher than the religious kids on average.

[Loismustdie 0]

Well remember that IQ is not about knowledge. The tests are designed to measure "g" - intellectual ability independent of knowledge. It is possible that school is teaching them some critical thinking skills and that they use that to purge themselves of irrational beliefs. The study does also show a developmental change -- as adolescents get older their IQ goes up and their belief in religion goes down. The atheist kids scored 6 points higher than the religious kids on average.

Hell will be a bitch of a wake up call.

[vbnautilus 48]

Hell will be a bitch of a wake up call.

So I have to choose between stupidity and hell?

[Balloon guy 158]

you obviously didn't go to school in southwest virginia.as to the bolded, it makes me slap my head. relativism's only good when it suits your needs, eh?

How'd you know that when I was thinking of how ignorant people who go to school are... I was thinking of you?

[Balloon guy 158]

So I have to choose between stupidity and hell?

hop on brother

[SuitedAces21 2,723]

IQ ratings are improved with schooling. ie..knowing a lot of stuff at an early age.schools teach there is no Godtherefore people who go to schools are more likely to be atheist when they first come out and haven't yet discovered that most of what they were taught in school is opinion.equals slanting of said study.

this, and other BG posts are all the proof i'll ever need.

[navybuttons 15]

my understanding is that this was true to a point but again turned at the highest IQ levels.so that generally people of below average intelligence and people with extraordinary intelligence have a belief in some sort of divinity. typically those of exceptional intelligence don't allow their search to be infringed upon by a specific dogma, but it should still be noted that atheists don't swarm the list of highest IQs.

[coesillian 0]

my understanding is that this was true to a point but again turned at the highest IQ levels.so that generally people of below average intelligence and people with extraordinary intelligence have a belief in some sort of divinity. typically those of exceptional intelligence don't allow their search to be infringed upon by a specific dogma, but it should still be noted that atheists don't swarm the list of highest IQs.

where is said list?i would tend to assume that university graduates have a higher proportion of atheist.

[Loismustdie 0]

where is said list?i would tend to assume that university graduates have a higher proportion of atheist.

That's nice, except university graduates aren't flooding the lists of top IQ's.

[speedz99 145]

That's nice, except university graduates aren't flooding the lists of top IQ's.

...

[vbnautilus 48]

my understanding is that this was true to a point but again turned at the highest IQ levels.so that generally people of below average intelligence and people with extraordinary intelligence have a belief in some sort of divinity. typically those of exceptional intelligence don't allow their search to be infringed upon by a specific dogma, but it should still be noted that atheists don't swarm the list of highest IQs.

No, actually the evidence is the other way. It's one of the things they looked at in this paper. Among "intellectual elites" the rate of belief in religion is significantly lower than in the general population.

[navybuttons 15]

...

i believe he's right, that those with the very highest intelligences tend to shy away from academia. what's the point of learning from others who you're smarter than what you can better teach yourself?

No, actually the evidence is the other way. It's one of the things they looked at in this paper. Among "intellectual elites" the rate of belief in religion is significantly lower than in the general population.

belonging to the intellectual elites is WAY different than having a high intelligence quotient. it's apples and oranges.i could have been more clear, i'm not saying those with 180+ IQs typically belong to a set religion, only that they don't dismiss the idea of theism. when i reference the highest IQs, i'm speaking of those that are around 1/30,000. just as those who belong to a strict dogma have confined their search for "truth" by applying a subjective veil over the world, so to has the person who dismisses the idea of the divine. why let the misunderstandings of previous scholars limit your thinking?

[vbnautilus 48]

i believe he's right, that those with the very highest intelligences tend to shy away from academia. what's the point of learning from others who you're smarter than what you can better teach yourself?belonging to the intellectual elites is WAY different than having a high intelligence quotient. it's apples and oranges.i could have been more clear, i'm not saying those with 180+ IQs typically belong to a set religion, only that they don't dismiss the idea of theism. when i reference the highest IQs, i'm speaking of those that are around 1/30,000. just as those who belong to a strict dogma have confined their search for "truth" by applying a subjective veil over the world, so to has the person who dismisses the idea of the divine. why let the misunderstandings of previous scholars limit your thinking?

I guess I could have been more clear too. The evidence presented here says that among the people with the highest IQ, there is a higher proportion of atheists.Now I understand that the way the question is asked is important as well. For example if you (navybuttons) ask me what my answer is to the question I'm going to give a very different answer than if the average person asks the question, where I will have to basically just say no in order to reject the standard concepts that he is probably asking about.

[Balloon guy 158]

I guess I could have been more clear too. The evidence presented here says that among the people with the highest IQ, there is a higher proportion of atheists.Now I understand that the way the question is asked is important as well. For example if you (navybuttons) ask me what my answer is to the question I'm going to give a very different answer than if the average person asks the question, where I will have to basically just say no in order to reject the standard concepts that he is probably asking about.

Well since the new fad at FCP is per capita style relationshipsI would point out that less than 4% of society is athiestSo if a whopping 5% of people who attended university denied the existance of God, that would be a 25% jump in percentagesBut it's not really that big of a deal is it?And besides, I've met too many college graduates who can't tie their shoes, let alone figure out their purpose of existance.Heck they join MENSA for crying out loud.

[vbnautilus 48]

Well since the new fad at FCP is per capita style relationshipsI would point out that less than 4% of society is athiestSo if a whopping 5% of people who attended university denied the existance of God, that would be a 25% jump in percentagesBut it's not really that big of a deal is it?And besides, I've met too many college graduates who can't tie their shoes, let alone figure out their purpose of existance.Heck they join MENSA for crying out loud.

I don't get your statistics. The correlation is between IQ and religious belief, not education level. Also, you made up 4% and by "society" you are probably referring to Palm Desert. In the USA it's about 10%. But in many other countries the percentage is higher. Some countries where disbelief in god is high: Japan 65%Sweden 64%UK 42%Netherlands 42%For balance, some countries where disbelief is low: Somalia .5%Afghanistan .5%Bangladesh .5%Botswana .5%Haiti .5%

[speedz99 145]

i believe he's right, that those with the very highest intelligences tend to shy away from academia. what's the point of learning from others who you're smarter than what you can better teach yourself?

Are you...serious? I mean...you aren't, right? You actually think that people with the highest levels of intelligence don't spend a lot of time in academia? We're not talking CEO types that have business smarts and don't need college to get ahead. We're talking IQ. The vast vast vast majority of people with abnormally high IQ ratings who have access to higher educations absolutely do avail themselves of those resources. I'm not saying they all have a dozen initials after their names, but they certainly attend college and usually beyond undergrad.As much as you might wish that geniuses were like Will Hunting, it was just a movie.

[vbnautilus 48]

A new study shows religion on the decline in the U.S.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29585222/A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has declined and more people say they have no religion at all.Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2 percent in 2001 and 8.2 percent in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.Northern New England surpassed the Pacific Northwest as the least religious region, with Vermont reporting the highest share of those claiming no religion, at 34 percent. Still, the study found that the numbers of Americans with no religion rose in every state. "No other religious bloc has kept such a pace in every state," the study's authors said.

[rjkdb8 1]

A new study shows religion on the decline in the U.S.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29585222/A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has declined and more people say they have no religion at all.Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2 percent in 2001 and 8.2 percent in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.Northern New England surpassed the Pacific Northwest as the least religious region, with Vermont reporting the highest share of those claiming no religion, at 34 percent. Still, the study found that the numbers of Americans with no religion rose in every state. "No other religious bloc has kept such a pace in every state," the study's authors said.

I was just coming here to post this. Isn't it amazing that athiests actually outnumber many influential minority groups, including racial minorities like blacks? Especially given the expicit marginalization of athiests, I find these statistics to be staggering.

[vbnautilus 48]

I was just coming here to post this. Isn't it amazing that athiests actually outnumber many influential minority groups, including racial minorities like blacks? Especially given the expicit marginalization of athiests, I find these statistics to be staggering.

Yes, but from another perspective it is staggering that so many people still believe in religion. The U.S. is still an outlier compared with other developed nations in this regard.

[speedz99 145]

I was just coming here to post this. Isn't it amazing that athiests actually outnumber many influential minority groups, including racial minorities like blacks? Especially given the expicit marginalization of athiests, I find these statistics to be staggering.

Atheists aren't influential as atheists because, almost by definition, they don't consider that designation to define them. With few exceptions (such as random forums and the occasional "be good for goodness sake" ad), atheists don't try to band together to impose their beliefs on other people. Though sometimes they have to let their voices be heard when others try to impose their beliefs on everyone.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yes, but from another perspective it is staggering that so many people still believe in religion. The U.S. is still an outlier compared with other developed nations in this regard.

I know, I mean denying God worked so well for Russia as a country

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't get your statistics. The correlation is between IQ and religious belief, not education level. Also, you made up 4% and by "society" you are probably referring to Palm Desert. In the USA it's about 10%. But in many other countries the percentage is higher.

Well you and speedz are at odds.I would say that if you took the smartest person in the world as a child, put them in a backwards civilization, and test them, their IQ would be in the retard level.IQ ratings really just mean how much schooling have you recieved relative to your age.That's why those of us with high ones, don't give them much credit