Utg Vs Lag, Right Play Or Wrong Thought Process?

[soup 0]

BB was raising often while in the late position or in the blinds. For the most part, i was playing pretty tag. He beat me in a pot earlier when i fired with 3rd pair on a scary board (he called every street with 2nd pair). I got the "nice try" message in the chat box. I figured i'll shake things up a little and get a tad aggressive. The way i see it (maybe i'm wrong, but i'm here to learn from feedback) his re-raise PF just wasn't enough for me to fold. Seemed like the right price and i had position. The small flop beat surprised me, he ALWAYS continue bets but not that small. Felt like he was asking me to call so that's what I did. I had some outs and I could fold the turn without much thought. The turn.........Anyway, here's the action. comments and or suggestions welcomed.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 80/160 Blinds (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (t10275)Hero (UTG) (t9810)MP (t18170)Button (t3480)SB (t5125)Hero's M: 40.88Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5 , 6 Hero bets t500, 3 folds, SB calls t420, BB raises to t1000, Hero calls t500, SB calls t500Flop: (t3000) 5 , A , 2 (3 players)SB checks, BB bets t320, Hero calls t320, 1 foldTurn: (t3640) 4 (2 players)BB checks, Hero checksRiver: (t3640) 3 (2 players)BB bets t8955 (All-In), Hero calls t8490 (All-In)Total pot: t20620Results in white below: BB had A c, A d: (straight, five high).Hero had 5 s:, 6 s: (straight, six high).Outcome: Hero won t20620

[pokerinc 0]

I'm not folding that flop to that bet ever, 10% of the pot is way too small to get off w/ the stacks of you and the better. So yeah, looks good.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Nh, probably not getting away from it on the river without a read that he tries to hit homerun balls with the nuts on the river. Also, posting results in white doesn't count if the board is 3-flush and you can still see the suits of the cards shown down.

[outsider13 0]

Nh. I think I play it exactly the same post flop. Preflop, I'm never raising this hand utg and if I did, it wouldn't raise so much.

[Footballguru 0]

Nh. I think I play it exactly the same post flop. Preflop, I'm never raising this hand utg and if I did, it wouldn't raise so much.

QFT

[soup 0]

Also, posting results in white doesn't count if the board is 3-flush and you can still see the suits of the cards shown down.

Opps, next time i'll leave the results off... thanks for the input.

[soup 0]

Nh. I think I play it exactly the same post flop. Preflop, I'm never raising this hand utg and if I did, it wouldn't raise so much.

I wouldn't raise here either, but i was playing very tight upfront and showing down those hands. The BB didn't re-raise enough, 500 into a 2000 pot. Plus i knew the SB would come along. The very small raise on the flop and the check on the turn i knew he didn't have the nuts. I figured him for a big pair or a big ace so i knew he was playing the board on the river. Another thing, this guy a few hands earlier call me on every street with 2nd pair, no draw. I made a big river bet, he called and said "nice try". I guess i had it out for him at this point and just wanted to hit.Thanks for the input.

[jmbreslin 0]

You got sucked into playing the LAG's game. His play annoyed you, even put you on tilt a bit, so you responded by abandoning your game and trying to fight fire with fire. Worst thing you can do against a LAG. Raising 65s from UTG is his comfort zone, not yours.

[XXEddie 0]

I wouldn't raise here either, but i was playing very tight upfront and showing down those hands. The BB didn't re-raise enough, 500 into a 2000 pot. Plus i knew the SB would come along. The very small raise on the flop and the check on the turn i knew he didn't have the nuts. I figured him for a big pair or a big ace so i knew he was playing the board on the river. Another thing, this guy a few hands earlier call me on every street with 2nd pair, no draw. I made a big river bet, he called and said "nice try". I guess i had it out for him at this point and just wanted to hit.Thanks for the input.

And this makes you raise UTG with 65s?

[soup 0]

And this makes you raise UTG with 65s?

I was playing very tight, i just wanted to pop it. I would have folded to a decent re-raise. If I played poorly, well than I played poorly. That's why I posted the hand, I wanted feedback and want to improve my thought process, and i thank you for your input However, given the fact that I did mix up my play would you have not called the extra 500 in position?Thanks again..

[soup 0]

You got sucked into playing the LAG's game. His play annoyed you, even put you on tilt a bit, so you responded by abandoning your game and trying to fight fire with fire. Worst thing you can do against a LAG. Raising 65s from UTG is his comfort zone, not yours.

I completely agree with this statement... hindsight is 20/20, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Thanks!!

[Gallo 1]

Nh. I think I play it exactly the same post flop. Preflop, I'm never raising this hand utg and if I did, it wouldn't raise so much.

I agree, the raise is just way too much to invest with 56sooted.I don't mind raising UTG with that hand, but then again that's my style. Either way, his river bet smells of AA and he slowplayed his hand allowing you to get there. I would call the river bet all day against someone like him who allowed me to get there.

[Mercury69 3]

That river is binki. You should have told him: "Nice try"Also, villain is a moron for not betting the turn and then shoving his entire stack in your face like that.

[GreeneStreet 0]

That river is binki. You should have told him: "Nice try"Also, villain is a moron for not betting the turn and then shoving his entire stack in your face like that.

I agree. Not sure what he was trying to represent here. We all knew he had an A and the 3 couldn't have helped him. Nice play, def. got lucky on the river though.

[SGFULTON83 0]

Risky play pre-flop, after flop looks pretty standard. Nice river, but you got to see it basically free. Pre-flop I'm usually dumping this and if you do want to poke around a little then raise to 350 or so, and fold to anything more than a minimum raise.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

plz dont open to 500 at 80/160

[RISEorFall 0]

plz dont open to 500 at 80/160

why not? maybe not w 56 utg with a loose BB, but theres nothing wrong with the raise size

[Gallo 1]

why not? maybe not w 56 utg with a loose BB, but theres nothing wrong with the raise size

Because you are wasting chips. A raise of 2.5xbb gets the same result. By raising that much you can't really call a standard reraise, but the villain min-raised so we got a great price to see a flop. What happens if someone repops to like 1500? Now you've just lost extra chips and people see that you're not necessarily that strong when raising that much.

[RISEorFall 0]

Because you are wasting chips. A raise of 2.5xbb gets the same result. By raising that much you can't really call a standard reraise, but the villain min-raised so we got a great price to see a flop. What happens if someone repops to like 1500? Now you've just lost extra chips and people see that you're not necessarily that strong when raising that much.

i usually raise between 2.5 and 3x, but there is nothing wrong with a slightly more than 3x raise in general. for this specific hand, yes, we might want to be able to call a 3bet...or we might not want to play a big pot oop with 6 high....of course then we shouldnt raise in the first placebut in general theres nothing wrong with this raise.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

i usually raise between 2.5 and 3x, but there is nothing wrong with a slightly more than 3x raise in general. for this specific hand, yes, we might want to be able to call a 3bet...or we might not want to play a big pot oop with 6 high....of course then we shouldnt raise in the first placebut in general theres nothing wrong with this raise.

you're right.. wtf do i know.

[RISEorFall 0]

you're right.. wtf do i know.

this is why i quit posting for months at a time. just because someone disagrees with you doesnt mean you have to take it personally. i disagree with a lot peoples posts, especially in the LHE forum (well, when people posted in there). having discussions about things players disagree on is what makes the forums a good learning tool. everybody jumping on the bandwagon with no discussion doesn't usually help anyone. is there a more optimal size raise at this level? yes. but is raising to 500 (barely over 3x the BB) at this level wrong? No. say we had AA, and we know the BB is pretty loose. why would we not want to raise more than 2.5x? if I knew he'd call a 5x raise in that spot, id raise 5x. only raising 2.5x would be costing us chips. obviously this is not a very common case, but an example of why we might not want to keep a strict standard raise size. if we had a smaller stack and a 500 raise would pretty much commit us, then it would be a bad raise. in this situation, knowing our opponent and our hand, it's a bad raise (not because of the size, but because of the situation)but just saying "dont raise to 500 at this level" is bad advice, imo.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

dont raise to 500 at 80/160

[outsider13 0]

dont raise to 500 at 80/160

[MovingIn 0]

Fill in the blank, vt:Dont raise to 500 at 80/160 because ______________________________ .

[Vtlaxer09 4]

Fill in the blank, vt:Dont raise to 500 at 80/160 because ______________________________ .

its stupid?