Hsp Season 5

[Gallo 1]

Good way because you made that post in the Challenge thread a few days ago.

lol which post? And which site? lol

[Snamuh 0]

1) Eastgate shouldn't raise the river with the A6, Durr should not be calling. Eastgate has to worry about durr flopping 2 pair or a straight and filling up. I dont think Durr can profitably call a raise with a 6 with a 7 kicker, or almost any kicker for that matter.2) DN raising the flop looks less like a king than flatting imo.

Durrrr's reaction alone proves the first statement wrong.I agree with your statement in two, but if you think raising the flop with J2 there is too strong, then DN should be raising the flop and barrelling the turn with a flush draw, or any two cards for that matter, because according to this forum's logic, Eastgate would need KK to small, and while KK is certainly in Eastgate's range, there are far less combinations of KK than QQ/AA/AK/JJ, etc.Edit: The top of Eastgate's range is going to be AA/KK/AK. If you are making him fold the majority of this range, then DN should be raising the flop with any two cards and barrelling the turn and river. If the flop were like 77K and DN had 7x and flatted the flop, that's a bit more understandable because DN's range is likely to include a lot more 7x hands than 2x hands and is thus more credible.

[Snamuh 0]

lol which post? And which site? lol

I thought you entered the challenge thread (or maybe it was the new forum) and were looking for a coach for cash games? Am I mistaken? If so, dunno what I'm thinking.

[Gallo 1]

I thought you entered the challenge thread (or maybe it was the new forum) and were looking for a coach for cash games? Am I mistaken? If so, dunno what I'm thinking.

Ah yes.Making yourself available?

[James D 0]

Durrrr's reaction alone proves the first statement wrong.

I'm not sure if you can read into the reactions TOO much, on the show. Firstly, we don't know exactly when/how the reaction was in real life (i.e - producers may edit, in terms of timing etc... e.g - on the very first hand, Eli and a few others came down on Durrr saying they'll call the clock - this was after about 5 seconds, so, surely can't be real time editing).Secondly, we can't be sure what they're saying purely for their image. I can well imagine Durrr wanting the table to think he'll pay off anything. His top pair fold against DB proves this wrong.If we're going on what they say though, Durrr apparently was surprised at DN's laydown against Doyle, when Doyle had the overpair. Can't be sure if he really was though, probably just fishing for more information, and agreed with the fold himself.

[looshle 6]

Durrs reaction doesn't prove anything except the fact that he was surprised he was beat. Eastgate is not raising a king on the river if he backed into one with KTdd or w/e flush draw was out there. It's unlikely to be a bluff too because a turn bluff would make more sense since Durr would have to worry about the river bet as well. A raise on the river from Eastgate is never a worse hand than 76 unless it is air which is not even close enough to the percent of the time it needs to be, to be profitable.

[Biff Goods 0]

A thought about the Eastgate/Durr hand and the Daniel/Eastgate hand......Could it be that after watching the A6 vs 76 hand between Durr and PE ( and other hands not shown) DN ascertained that PE was playing a bit Tight...straight up poker and not trying to get in any trouble. DN probably put PE on exactly AK, AA or KK in the hand considering that he would not Cbet anything else on the flop and made the decision right there that the best chance of making money would be to call, call, bet to make it seem like a standard missed flush draw steal (which many of us, I believe, would fall for, had we been in PE's position). I think that Daniel, considering the information he had on PE, assumed that PE would shut down with anything except KK if he raised the flop or turn. I think this theory is proven by the fold PE makes on the river. They way you guys are describing the correct way to play this hand when you flop trips with J2 I completely agree with in a generic situation. But I think there is more going on here then just your ole...run of the mill Button/SB battle. As for the Durr/Eastgate hand...Your on t.v. against the guy who is playing every pot but has an unbelievable record as a winner in the nose bleed section. PE probably started off thinking of trapping and then froze up on the end and talked himself into just calling. It's consistent with his overall approach to the whole session. (so far....duh duh duh).

[silkyjonson 1]

Eastgate seems to know a little bit about this poker thing. How many donkey's raise the A6 hand and get stacked? It's happened to every single one of us and to raise that river is bad. How many donkey's call DN's river raise not realizing their hand is now only a bluff catcher. We've all done it and caught a bluff but more often than not, paid off a better hand. How much do you know of PE's higher stakes online or live experience? It may be best not to assume he's strictly an mtt player. jsoh, and the brow furrowing thing can be misleading.

I was speaking about what PE said himself that he was a big loser in online nosebleed cash games, I cant remember where it was from but I'm sure someone can link it.Just finished watching the episode and I think Eastgate played fairly well except for the first hand. The A6 hand I don't think he should raise the river, I think he can raise the turn though but Dwan is so LAG and maybe the best NL player in the world I don't mind smooth calling both streets on that board. I def think the turn is close but the river is a call IMO given Eastgates probable image he's not getting paid here. The AK was well played as well obv.

[Vtlaxer09 4]

a raise from eastgate on that river is as good as lighting money on fire. and like i said before.. durr's reaction was classless and uncalled for.

[Snamuh 0]

a raise from eastgate on that river is as good as lighting money on fire. and like i said before.. durr's reaction was classless and uncalled for.

This is definitely not true.

[looshle 6]

This is definitely not true.

there's no way it is +ev.raising the river only makes sense if you are tying to bluff durr off of a straight.

[Cadam11 0]

there's no way it is +ev.raising the river only makes sense if you are tying to bluff durr off of a straight.

Yeah raising that river against that type of person would be pretty terrible.

[antistuff 0]

I wish I could play T4s oop in a 3-way pot profitably.

with an ante half the small blind and you're in a straddle? he only had to call 4400 more. i don't think its that bad.

[Canary3 1]

Does anyone have a link to episdoe 1? The first link given a few pages back is now a private video. Thanks

[LJB723 0]

Does anyone have a link to episdoe 1? The first link given a few pages back is now a private video. Thanks

Pokertube ftw!How do people not know about this site yet?

[gooch 0]

Pokertube ftw!How do people not know about this site yet?

jeez no kidding, i must log 3 or 4 hours there a day

[AimHigher 0]

Torrent Link for those who'd prefer it in decent quality:http://www.mininova.org/tor/2336988

[Snamuh 0]

there's no way it is +ev.raising the river only makes sense if you are tying to bluff durr off of a straight.

The metagame when you play with someone like durrr is going to open up a lot more options. Like I said, if it were vs someone like DN, Doyle, or Barry, a call on the end is perfectly fine. Playing against durrr is going to be anything but straightforward and your value range is going to widen a ton (and durrr's calling range is going to widen a ton as a result).

[Snamuh 0]

Yeah raising that river against that type of person would be pretty terrible.

Elaborate. Against what type of person? Widening your value range vs one of the loosest poker players alive? The way you phrased it, it sounds like you'd do it against other types of people. If not durrr, then who?

[looshle 6]

Elaborate. Against what type of person? Widening your value range vs one of the loosest poker players alive? The way you phrased it, it sounds like you'd do it against other types of people. If not durrr, then who?

Durr called from bb and fired into 3 people on flop, got called by PF raiser who still had 2 people behind him, and then fired every other street trying to build a pot. Durrs image is loose but not retarded.

[HubDub04 0]

I retract my statement about Eastgate being bad. I do not think he's a bad player, but I keep getting the feeling that he's outclassed (and probably knows it) and that he's playing scared against Dwan and some of the other guys at the table. His flat of $50k ish on the river with A6 is a clear example of that. Like some others have said previously, Dwan is going to value bet a TON of weaker hands here on the river, along with firing a similar river barrel with a lot of missed draws etc. I don't know what else to say except that NOT raising that river is pretty bad, especially against one of the best/most creative players in the world. If Dwan actually did flop the straight or has a full house, so be it, but Eastgate should have been smart enough to realize that his hand was lightyears ahead of Dwan's range there and raising like 75k more would have been the right line, plus, there are hands in Dwan's range that he pays off on the river, like a weaker 6 etc.

[GWCGWC 83]

I retract my statement about Eastgate being bad. I do not think he's a bad player, but I keep getting the feeling that he's outclassed (and probably knows it) and that he's playing scared against Dwan and some of the other guys at the table. His flat of $50k ish on the river with A6 is a clear example of that. Like some others have said previously, Dwan is going to value bet a TON of weaker hands here on the river, along with firing a similar river barrel with a lot of missed draws etc. I don't know what else to say except that NOT raising that river is pretty bad, especially against one of the best/most creative players in the world. If Dwan actually did flop the straight or has a full house, so be it, but Eastgate should have been smart enough to realize that his hand was lightyears ahead of Dwan's range there and raising like 75k more would have been the right line, plus, there are hands in Dwan's range that he pays off on the river, like a weaker 6 etc.

One thing that nobody has mentioned on this hand is stack sizes. My understanding is this episode was edited to look like the beginning of the session, but was in fact, the second day of shooting.I don't know what the starting stacks are before the hand in question took place. If we assume it's 200K, then PE can't raise 75K since that would basically be all in. He really can't/shouldn't min-raise and fold due to the pot to stack ratio. This is such an incredibly standard call.

[silkyjonson 1]

I retract my statement about Eastgate being bad. I do not think he's a bad player, but I keep getting the feeling that he's outclassed (and probably knows it) and that he's playing scared against Dwan and some of the other guys at the table. His flat of $50k ish on the river with A6 is a clear example of that. Like some others have said previously, Dwan is going to value bet a TON of weaker hands here on the river, along with firing a similar river barrel with a lot of missed draws etc. I don't know what else to say except that NOT raising that river is pretty bad, especially against one of the best/most creative players in the world. If Dwan actually did flop the straight or has a full house, so be it, but Eastgate should have been smart enough to realize that his hand was lightyears ahead of Dwan's range there and raising like 75k more would have been the right line, plus, there are hands in Dwan's range that he pays off on the river, like a weaker 6 etc.

The only hand he is paying off is the case six. He's not taking this line with hands like 99 88 or bricked draws on the river. I can see the raise for Meta game purposes but I don't think that factors in that much because most likely PE and Dwan are'nt going to be playing that much. PE should be considering the direct value, there is a case for raising turn but river I don't think its viable.

[Snamuh 0]

One thing that nobody has mentioned on this hand is stack sizes. My understanding is this episode was edited to look like the beginning of the session, but was in fact, the second day of shooting.I don't know what the starting stacks are before the hand in question took place. If we assume it's 200K, then PE can't raise 75K since that would basically be all in. He really can't/shouldn't min-raise and fold due to the pot to stack ratio. This is such an incredibly standard call.

This logic is bad. Yes, you can raise/fold hands if you are never getting 3bet by worse, regardless of odds.Edit: Other portions of your argument may be valid, but the bolded statement is poor.

[GWCGWC 83]

This logic is bad. Yes, you can raise/fold hands if you are never getting 3bet by worse, regardless of odds.

The logic on the surface is bad. butLet's say PE has 8K left after a raise. Should he fold to a r/r into a 380K pot? This was kind of my point.