Abortion Thread

[brvheart 1,752]

it may be awful but it isnt as bad as shooting someone in a church. sorry.

You're crazy. What's so special about a church? A church and a womb should both be places of peace and tranquility.

[gobears 0]

I've been reading about Dr. Death and while most people are against the abortion of mid/late term healthy normal kids, what about the not so straight forward situations? Women went to this doctor since it is extremely difficult to find doctors willing to do mid/late term abortions. I read about the following women that went to this doctor.1. Women who needed abortions to qualify for chemotherapy2. Women who learned late in their pregnancies that their babies had fatal illnesses3. Rape victims who were so young (11 and 12 year olds) and who didn't realize that they were pregnant until late in their pregnancies or who were too ashamed to let anyone know.4. Women who learned that their babies would suffer constantly and die young

[brvheart 1,752]

I've been reading about Dr. Death and while most people are against the abortion of mid/late term healthy normal kids, what about the not so straight forward situations? Women went to this doctor since it is extremely difficult to find doctors willing to do mid/late term abortions. I read about the following women that went to this doctor.1. Women who needed abortions to qualify for chemotherapy2. Women who learned late in their pregnancies that their babies had fatal illnesses3. Rape victims who were so young (11 and 12 year olds) and who didn't realize that they were pregnant until late in their pregnancies or who were too ashamed to let anyone know.4. Women who learned that their babies would suffer constantly and die young

I would like to see the statistic for the percentage of each of these items in relation to his total procedures. My personal thoughts on your specific four points are as follows:1. These women would be incredible selfish. I don't know about you, but I would easily die for any one of my kids millions of times over... so delaying treatment for 2 months wouldn't even come into question.2 & 4. These women have no idea that this will be true, it's just a best guess, which is often wrong. It's VERY important to note that you word both of those in the absolute most conservative way possible, using the terms 'fatal' and 'constantly suffering'. Down syndrome does not cause anyone to suffer, except for the mom and/or dad's ego. (Obviously there are exceptions, but the FAR majority of abortions due to 'medical' reasons are for retardation variants. Which is the same reason as #1, selfishness)3. In your example you say 'rape' only, not promiscuity. You also say '11 or 12' which is obviously skewed HEAVILY to the extreme to try to 'prove a point' or make up a 'SEE! What if THIS HAPPENED!", when the far minority, probably less than 0.5% would be girls under 13. My point being, that you are trying to phrase things in the most extreme way possible to force people to agree with you. The fact is that these children are being murdered against their will, due >90% of the time to the extreme selfishness of the parents, I find personally unacceptable.As for the legality or availability, I'm a libertarian. So I believe that the federal government should stay out of it and that it should be up to the states. Once the decision in the states hands, I would be heavily involved in educating the public that slavery was wrong and so should be the murder of infants.

[CaneBrain 95]

You're crazy. What's so special about a church? A church and a womb should both be places of peace and tranquility.

nothing. I think nothing about a church is special. It's the shooting part.Murder is illegal, abortion is not. If it came across like the place of the murder mattered to me, it did not. Just the murder itself.

[vbnautilus 48]

nothing. I think nothing about a church is special. It's the shooting part.Murder is illegal, abortion is not. If it came across like the place of the murder mattered to me, it did not. Just the murder itself.

I think it's in extremely poor taste to murder someone in his place of worship. Not only did he commit murder, but also violated the sanctuary of the church, whose values he claims to be upholding.

[CaneBrain 95]

I think it's in extremely poor taste to murder someone in his place of worship. Not only did he commit murder, but also violated the sanctuary of the church, whose values he claims to be upholding.

yes, I certainly agree 100%.....I just wanted to make sure Brvheart understood that I feel that if this man was killed in a whorehouse it would still be worse than his abortion practices.

[brvheart 1,752]

nothing. I think nothing about a church is special. It's the shooting part.Murder is illegal, abortion is not. If it came across like the place of the murder mattered to me, it did not. Just the murder itself.

yes, I certainly agree 100%.....I just wanted to make sure Brvheart understood that I feel that if this man was killed in a whorehouse it would still be worse than his abortion practices.

Legality has absolutely nothing to do with the end reason, which is the same in both cases.

[CaneBrain 95]

Legality has absolutely nothing to do with the end reason, which is the same in both cases.

agree to disagree.

[brvheart 1,752]

agree to disagree.

Wait... what are we disagreeing on? You don't think both situations end in death?

[CaneBrain 95]

Wait... what are we disagreeing on? You don't think both situations end in death?

I think one is illegal and one is not so therefore one is worse. Yes, both situations end in death. So does a murder and a bad, car accident. And I think murder is worse than if you get in a car accident that is not your fault and kill someone. Even though they both end in death.we agree that both things end in death, we disagree on whether one is still worse than the other.

[Sportsmack 0]

I think one is illegal and one is not so therefore one is worse. Yes, both situations end in death. So does a murder and a bad, car accident. And I think murder is worse than if you get in a car accident that is not your fault and kill someone. Even though they both end in death.we agree that both things end in death, we disagree on whether one is still worse than the other.

but only one begins with intent, not even comparable.

[brvheart 1,752]

I think one is illegal and one is not so therefore one is worse. Yes, both situations end in death. So does a murder and a bad, car accident. And I think murder is worse than if you get in a car accident that is not your fault and kill someone. Even though they both end in death.we agree that both things end in death, we disagree on whether one is still worse than the other.

I'm fairly certain that even you must see the deep holes in this logic... you are comparing apples to oranges. George Tiller didn't ever just walked around his office with a scalpel and accidental fall into a vagina killing a viable human. It was a preplanned murder of a baby that could survive on it's own.

"He died the way he lived. His was a bloody death." Rev Rusty Thomas, Operation Save America(OSA). "Someone 'chose' to end George Tiller's life this morning, in his church.""What was an abortionist doing 'in' church, any church...being allowed, welcomed, even venerated? This man killed babies for a living. He charged large sums of money to do it. Then he went to 'church,' made large contributions, and the 'church' (Reformation Lutheran Church) accepted it??" Pastor Mark Holick, Spirit One Christian Center, & OSA.This is an apostate church, fully complicit in Mr. Tiller's murderous rampage against preborn children. It has provided cover and respectability for him. We have confronted both pastor and church with this trashing of the Gospel of Christ. I can still recall one board member saying, "We have members who believe both ways (pro-life or pro-choice)." Please!"A man who stiffens his neck after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed -- without remedy." Proverbs 29:1. "George Tiller has been confronted innumerable times with the claims of Christ." Rev Flip Benham, Director of Operation Save America. "We were in Wichita in 1991, pleading for him to receive Christ and stop murdering children. In April 2001, I wrote him a personal letter with the book, Won By Love hoping to speak with him. Every day outside his abortion mill, gentle Christians pleaded with mothers to choose life and with George to choose Christ. We have been to his home, his church, and his work. He is now bowing before Jesus and confessing that He (Jesus) is right and that he (George Tiller) was wrong!"No doubt the media will paint every Christian, who loves life and lives out that belief in the streets of his city, as a wild-eyed, lunatic, fanatic bent on shooting abortionists. They will attempt to silence the voice of many by using the violence of one. This ploy is the devil's "straw man."Beware! The one who murdered George Tiller became exactly what George Tiller was -- a murderer.We will not be silenced nor will we stop opposing the murder of "any" person - born or unborn. If I were at Reformation Lutheran Church this morning my duty would be to stand in between the shooter and George Tiller.

George Tiller and the mothers chose to kill a defenseless human baby.A crazy nut job chose to kill George Tiller.You've already agreed that both end in death and that both were awful. It's scary that you think that just because it's not illegal in Kansas, that the morality of it is somehow better or worse.

[vbnautilus 48]

I'm fairly certain that even you must see the deep holes in this logic... you are comparing apples to oranges. George Tiller didn't ever just walked around his office with a scalpel and accidental fall into a vagina killing a viable human. It was a preplanned murder of a baby that could survive on it's own.

I'm fairly certain that even you must see the the question-begging language in your post. Without getting into the whole abortion debate again, suffice it to say that "preplanned murder" is not the only possible understanding of what was happening at the doctor's office.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I'm fairly certain that even you must see the the question-begging language in your post. Without getting into the whole abortion debate again, suffice it to say that "preplanned murder" is not the only possible understanding of what was happening at the doctor's office.

If it's not, then it is largely because the US has seen fit to legalize such a horrendous act.(late term abortion).

[gobears 0]

I would like to see the statistic for the percentage of each of these items in relation to his total procedures. My personal thoughts on your specific four points are as follows:1. These women would be incredible selfish. I don't know about you, but I would easily die for any one of my kids millions of times over... so delaying treatment for 2 months wouldn't even come into question.2 & 4. These women have no idea that this will be true, it's just a best guess, which is often wrong. It's VERY important to note that you word both of those in the absolute most conservative way possible, using the terms 'fatal' and 'constantly suffering'. Down syndrome does not cause anyone to suffer, except for the mom and/or dad's ego. (Obviously there are exceptions, but the FAR majority of abortions due to 'medical' reasons are for retardation variants. Which is the same reason as #1, selfishness)3. In your example you say 'rape' only, not promiscuity. You also say '11 or 12' which is obviously skewed HEAVILY to the extreme to try to 'prove a point' or make up a 'SEE! What if THIS HAPPENED!", when the far minority, probably less than 0.5% would be girls under 13. My point being, that you are trying to phrase things in the most extreme way possible to force people to agree with you. The fact is that these children are being murdered against their will, due >90% of the time to the extreme selfishness of the parents, I find personally unacceptable.As for the legality or availability, I'm a libertarian. So I believe that the federal government should stay out of it and that it should be up to the states. Once the decision in the states hands, I would be heavily involved in educating the public that slavery was wrong and so should be the murder of infants.

Well #1 is up to the mother - if carrying the baby to term results in a greater chance of death for the mother, at what point is abortion acceptable. What if the odds become greater than 50%? 75%? 90%? All hypothetical but these are the cases I'm talking about.On #2 and #4, I'm relying on the doctor to say that the baby/kid will be constantly suffering until certain death. I'm not talking about Down's syndrome babies. What if the doctor said that it was all but certain that this was the case?On #3, again I'm not talking about older promiscuous kids, I'm talking about 11 or 12 year old rape victims. Would you force them to carry to term?I'm not sure where the line is on mid/late term abortions, but in the above cases, I'd err on the side of the mother or parents' wishes.And I too would like to see the % of these type of cases that the doctor performed. I haven't seen any facts on that at all.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

And I too would like to see the % of these type of cases that the doctor performed. I haven't seen any facts on that at all.

2 Questions1. Where does the main stream media stand on this issue?2. Why do you think these percentages aren't widely known?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I wish abortions were illegal, so I could sell back alley abortions and dangerous folk abortion potions. I don't want to have to go to med school to kill babies.

[strategy 4]

along with what gobears is saying, I've heard that about 100 of these types of legal late term abortions happen each year. seeing as we're a nation of over 300 million, seems to me like this wasn't so horribly extreme.living where I do, I've heard a lot of bad things about this guy through word of mouth. I mean, I'm personally naturally inclined to dislike what he did. but whatever.I'm waffling all over the goddamn place tonight.

[gobears 0]

2 Questions1. Where does the main stream media stand on this issue?2. Why do you think these percentages aren't widely known?

1. Doesn't matter to me and doesn't impact my view2. Privacy rules

[brvheart 1,752]

I'm fairly certain that even you must see the the question-begging language in your post. Without getting into the whole abortion debate again, suffice it to say that "preplanned murder" is not the only possible understanding of what was happening at the doctor's office.

How many times do I need to say that exceptions are always possible? Exceptions ARE possible, but 'the rule' aka norm.... is preplanned murder of an innocent life. Also, it's important to note that this particular discussion is only about late term abortions after 21 weeks, when the child would live almost 100% of the time in today's medical environment.

Well #1 is up to the mother - if carrying the baby to term results in a greater chance of death for the mother, at what point is abortion acceptable. What if the odds become greater than 50%? 75%? 90%? All hypothetical but these are the cases I'm talking about.On #2 and #4, I'm relying on the doctor to say that the baby/kid will be constantly suffering until certain death. I'm not talking about Down's syndrome babies. What if the doctor said that it was all but certain that this was the case?On #3, again I'm not talking about older promiscuous kids, I'm talking about 11 or 12 year old rape victims. Would you force them to carry to term?I'm not sure where the line is on mid/late term abortions, but in the above cases, I'd err on the side of the mother or parents' wishes.And I too would like to see the % of these type of cases that the doctor performed. I haven't seen any facts on that at all.

#1. We agree, it's 100% up to the mother.... and it's 100% selfish to choose to kill your child. I guess I need to say it again, I would lay down my life 100 times over before I would allow my child to be killed, I assume that the same would be true of you.#2 & #4, I don't trust doctors to see the future. Also, medicine is very very good in today's world. Also... I've personally never heard of any situation where a doctor has said that he could tell with 100% certainty that a baby would be born in total agony. What situation would this happen in? What's disease would this be? Mr. Glass syndrome?#3. That's my whole point. 11 or 12 year old rape victims would be no more than 0.5% of this particular guys 'patients'... and I think that is an incredibly liberal 0.5%... it's probably, in reality, like 1 or 2 girls every couple years... in that age bracket.I would never ever ever err on the side of someone choosing to kill someone else because they didn't want to be inconvenienced.

[akoff 0]

Legalized abortion is really just part of a puzzle. The ultimate goal is keep poor black folks in their place…the Democrats have championed this because it is the easiest way for them to stay in power. It keeps the poor black population under control and on welfare….thus happy to vote Democrat. Pretty sure I am now qualified for the Supreme Court….

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Legalized abortion is really just part of a puzzle. The ultimate goal is keep poor black folks in their place…the Democrats have championed this because it is the easiest way for them to stay in power. It keeps the poor black population under control and on welfare….thus happy to vote Democrat. Pretty sure I am now qualified for the Supreme Court….

I don't get this post at all. I should think cheap and easy abortions would help free up black people, as they'd have less kids and less people on welfare and less democratic voters. Is this post some sort of level?

[Solar 0]

I don't get this post at all. I should think cheap and easy abortions would help free up black people, as they'd have less kids and less people on welfare and less democratic voters. Is this post some sort of level?

fewer, fewer and fewer. Couldn't help myself.

[Sheiky 0]

Legalized abortion is really just part of a puzzle. The ultimate goal is keep poor black folks in their place…the Democrats have championed this because it is the easiest way for them to stay in power. It keeps the poor black population under control and on welfare….thus happy to vote Democrat.Pretty sure I am now qualified for the Supreme Court….

I knew you were a ****ing moron, but I didn't know you were this god damn brain dead.

[akoff 0]

I knew you were a ****ing moron, but I didn't know you were this god damn brain dead.

On occasion you need to learn to think out of the box, it is an acquired skill but works well. That and understanding a hint of sarcasm will go a long way in life. The theory goes that if you make life easy for people they lose the desire to work and improve themselves. Now you can argue that this is racism and untrue but if you look around you will see there is much truth in what I am saying. Of course it isn’t about color but about human nature but the bleeding heart Democrats on this form won’t be able to process that. It is what socialism does…it takes away the spirit to succeed. You have generation of people both black and white (Native Americans as well) that are content to sit at home and let the government take care of them. Life isn’t good but it is easy and they don’t any better….they are very happy to vote Democrat because it is all they know!! They have been trained to just take what they can, earn nothing, complain when needed but do nothing to help them. All you have to do is look around and you will countless examples of what I am saying. Of course I took to a huge extreme and put abortion in the center of it as part of the financial controls to keep the system from falling on it self (that would be the out of the box sarcasm part you missed)!! I do acknowledge that is not factual but merely an extension of the Democrat / Socialist good intensions that always go bad. My favorite part is a bunch of people (Cane is perfect example) who are well educated and willing to work hard but seem to think the people they want to “help” need it or are going to use it productively. I know your intensions are good they are just flawed….due to human nature. The very reason that liberals are successful is due to the hard work they are willing to do…. To sum it all up Democrats are racist supporters of holding power over black and poor people….abortion is the primary method of budgeting properly….do you get it now?