robinho1873 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Not my notion i must point out, but Phil Hellmuths.He discussed this on poker after dark. If your at a table of say 6-9 people and feel like you can easily out-play everyone at the table, could there be an arguement for laying down aces to someones shove?Hellmuth said ''Why risk all your chips in a 4-1 situation against any two random cards when you can confidently predict that you will get everyones chips by outplaying them''I think Phil's tounge was firmly in his cheek but I thought it was an interesting thought and worthy of discussion. ??? Link to post Share on other sites
SGFULTON83 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yeah, we should fold the 4-1 situation in favor of a coin flip later.SW, obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'd rather be a 3-1 favorite after the flop than 4-1 before the flop because you never know what the flop's gonna bring Link to post Share on other sites
SGFULTON83 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'd rather be a 3-1 favorite after the flop than 4-1 before the flop because you never know what the flop's gonna bringYes, I see what you are saying completely. I would still want to get it in pre-flop 4-1 all day long, no matter the opponent. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Anyone who for 1 microsecond think that folding AA preflop is ever a good idea, except for in a satellite where you are already guaranteed a prize, isn't a winning player. Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 What an interesting topic. Never been discussed before. Link to post Share on other sites
donk4life 34 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 First hand of the Main event, everyone shoves to you and you have AA, do you call? Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 First hand of the Main event, everyone shoves to you and you have AA, do you call?Did I win my seat through a satellite or did I pay the $10,000 fee myself? Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 The only possible way I'd throw away AA preflop is if you were at some insane cash game and six people pushed all in and you had to go all in preflop to call and you had a significant portion of your bankroll on the table.....but even then I'd still lean towards calling...and the real problem would be having that much of your bankroll on the table at one time.Basically..never fold. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Not my notion i must point out, but Phil Hellmuths.He discussed this on poker after dark. If your at a table of say 6-9 people and feel like you can easily out-play everyone at the table, could there be an arguement for laying down aces to someones shove?Hellmuth said ''Why risk all your chips in a 4-1 situation against any two random cards when you can confidently predict that you will get everyones chips by outplaying them''I think Phil's tounge was firmly in his cheek but I thought it was an interesting thought and worthy of discussion. ???These hypothetical situations are just dumb. Isn't putting someone in at 4-1 "outplaying" them? How does it get any better? Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 These hypothetical situations are just dumb. Isn't putting someone in at 4-1 "outplaying" them? How does it get any better?EXACTLY! Link to post Share on other sites
shane21 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd rather be a 3-1 favorite after the flop than 4-1 before the flop because you never know what the flop's gonna bringthis seems statement seems to lack a fair bit of logic Link to post Share on other sites
dizzlerock 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Did I win my seat through a satellite or did I pay the $10,000 fee myself? doesnt matter Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'd rather be a 3-1 favorite after the flop than 4-1 before the flop because you never know what the flop's gonna bringherm....err....wa? Link to post Share on other sites
MovingIn 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 This sort of nitty aversion to risk is kind of why Phil gets so nuked after someone outdraws him. He thinks he has more control over the game than he actually does. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 herm....err....wa?come on man...note the numbers quoted (and the resultant absurdity). Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 This is why Hellmuths ROI in WPTs is like -70%. Link to post Share on other sites
bahlgren342 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 First hand of the Main event, everyone shoves to you and you have AA, do you call?EVERYONE? Wouldn't this situation make this virtually a coinflip? With the AA just a sliver ahead? I don't know I might get shit for saying this but I MIGHT fold it, waiting for a better spot when my aces would actually be 4-1 to win instead this early of the Main Event of nearly 50-50. Then again It's technically a bad play but I just don't think it's worth risking your entire stack first hand in a prestige tournament on a coin flip. But, really that situation would most likely never happen, and I would get be more than happy to get my Aces in 99.9&~repeating in preflop. No matter what Hellmuth says. IF I ever saw him fold Aces on TV I would have no more than the little respect I have now for him. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 EVERYONE? Wouldn't this situation make this virtually a coinflip? With the AA just a sliver ahead? I don't know I might get shit for saying this but I MIGHT fold it, waiting for a better spot when my aces would actually be 4-1 to win instead this early of the Main Event of nearly 50-50. Then again It's technically a bad play but I just don't think it's worth risking your entire stack first hand in a prestige tournament on a coin flip. But, really that situation would most likely never happen, and I would get be more than happy to get my Aces in 99.9&~repeating in preflop. No matter what Hellmuth says. IF I ever saw him fold Aces on TV I would have no more than the little respect I have now for him.Wait, so you'd fold getting 9-1 if you were in a 50-50 situation? Link to post Share on other sites
slink 1 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 First hand of the Main event, everyone shoves to you and you have AA, do you call?AA versus 9 opponents pf = 31%8 opponents pf = 34%7 opponents pf = 38%6 opponents pf = 43%5 opponents pf = 49%4 opponents pf = 56%3 opponents pf = 64%2 opponents pf = 73%1 opponent pf = 85%Information according to pokernews hand calculator.If you are up against 8 other opponents, most likely there would be no aces left as you would prolly be up against AK, AQ plus KK QQ, meaning you would prolly most likely to hit a str8 (also very unlikely). Link to post Share on other sites
BudBundy 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 well i don't anyone should accept allin before seeing the flop Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I THINK AGREE THAT POKER, HAVING GOOD WHEN WITH AA. FOLDING IS THE WHY I NOT AGREE WITH POSTINGS!ONCE, I HAVE AA WITH THREE OF THEM AND NOT WIN ON TURNRIVER BUT IS,NT THE HAPPY. IS CRAZY TIMES NO? Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I THINK AGREE THAT POKER, HAVING GOOD WHEN WITH AA. FOLDING IS THE WHY I NOT AGREE WITH POSTINGS!ONCE, I HAVE AA WITH THREE OF THEM AND NOT WIN ON TURNRIVER BUT IS,NT THE HAPPY. IS CRAZY TIMES NO?QFT Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 What an interesting topic. Never been discussed before. Did I win my seat through a satellite or did I pay the $10,000 fee myself? well i don't anyone should accept allin before seeing the flop I THINK AGREE THAT POKER, HAVING GOOD WHEN WITH AA. FOLDING IS THE WHY I NOT AGREE WITH POSTINGS!ONCE, I HAVE AA WITH THREE OF THEM AND NOT WIN ON TURNRIVER BUT IS,NT THE HAPPY. IS CRAZY TIMES NO?I think these pretty much sum up this thread.My other question is...Are the 4 other players who shove wearing any Pokerstars or Fulltilt gear? Because that makes them good. Link to post Share on other sites
CoolHandPuke 0 Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I think these pretty much sum up this thread.My other question is...Are the 4 other players who shove wearing any Pokerstars or Fulltilt gear? Because that makes them good.What about a WSOP hat and some nice sunglasses? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now