Need Advice On Big Draw In 1/2 Cash

[river_me_this 0]

Im playing in a live 1/2 cash game and am up to 160 from 100 there is a live straddle and in middle posistion I have Qd Jd i just call because 100% of the time this guy straddles he'll either raise or reraise so one other player calls and he makes it 10 more as expected. I call and so does the other player so we see the flop three handed. The flop comes Kh Td 8d. The straddler is first to act and bets $25 into a $44 pot I'm next to act and the player behind me is definetly folding. I know I'm never folding here because even if he has two pair im still favored to win. My question is should I raise her? I have about 140 left and if I raise here its for sure going all in on the turn regardless of the card the opponents cards here could be any two because like I said he raises regardeless everytime he straddles and his continuation bet percentage is probably 95% so that bet really doesnt matter. How can I get max value out of this hand? Thanks for the advice.

[pokerinc 0]

definitely raise. your hand loses a lot of value on a blank turn, utg's probably got air so just take the pot down now, if he doesn't and wants to play for stacks you're good w/ that too.Yes you have a sick draw but it is just a draw and ending the pot now show's a good profit.Pump it to 90 call a shovel.Also, you have trouble getting paid on a diamond turn here anyway so yeah, definitely just push the flop as hard as possible.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

Im playing in a live 1/2 cash game and am up to 160 from 100 there is a live straddle and in middle posistion I have Qd Jd i just call because 100% of the time this guy straddles he'll either raise or reraise so one other player calls and he makes it 10 more as expected. I call and so does the other player so we see the flop three handed. The flop comes Kh Td 8d. The straddler is first to act and bets $25 into a $44 pot I'm next to act and the player behind me is definetly folding. I know I'm never folding here because even if he has two pair im still favored to win. My question is should I raise her? I have about 140 left and if I raise here its for sure going all in on the turn regardless of the card the opponents cards here could be any two because like I said he raises regardeless everytime he straddles and his continuation bet percentage is probably 95% so that bet really doesnt matter. How can I get max value out of this hand? Thanks for the advice.

You still have a draw and Q high, but it sounds like this guy is a complete aggro maniac who could literally have any 2. I HATE raising on the draw against idiots like this. In fact, I would probably never even play a hand as weak as QJ when this guy is straddling. You know what he's going to do, so why play weak starting hands if you don't have a plan?I think a smooth call here is the best course.If you raise his bet on the flop, he is 'most likely' either going to fold or re-raise you. Not exactly what we want to happen. He's giving you odds to draw so take it.

[SwolyswoND 1]

You still have a draw and Q high, but it sounds like this guy is a complete aggro maniac who could literally have any 2. I HATE raising on the draw against idiots like this. In fact, I would probably never even play a hand as weak as QJ when this guy is straddling. You know what he's going to do, so why play weak starting hands if you don't have a plan?I think a smooth call here is the best course.If you raise his bet on the flop, he is 'most likely' either going to fold or re-raise you. Not exactly what we want to happen. He's giving you odds to draw so take it.

I completely disagree with this. The whole value from a big combo draw is adding fold equity to the equation. We still only have Q hi, and if we can make something like Ax, even AK, fold on the flop then it's good for us, b/c we are by no means guaranteed to hit the draw. If you smooth call, your hand is face up and you won't get paid on a diamond. I agree with an earlier poster, raise to 90, call if he shoves.

[Solar 0]

I completely disagree with this. The whole value from a big combo draw is adding fold equity to the equation. We still only have Q hi, and if we can make something like Ax, even AK, fold on the flop then it's good for us, b/c we are by no means guaranteed to hit the draw. If you smooth call, your hand is face up and you won't get paid on a diamond. I agree with an earlier poster, raise to 90, call if he shoves.

Have you ever played at a real casino before? It is completely wrong to make any play at a table like this that relies on pushing someone off a hand.I think if we raise here he will likely shove with a decent king or better and fold pretty much everything else. Surely we want to call, make it look like we have a draw, and hope he shoves the turn with whatever he has. Sure calling will put us behind hands like AK on the turn, but hes never folding it anyway. If the diamond 9 peeled he would probably still jam tptk.

[TrueAce13 18]

Raise. Jam. Reload after missing.

[pokerinc 0]

Have you ever played at a real casino before? It is completely wrong to make any play at a table like this that relies on pushing someone off a hand.I think if we raise here he will likely shove with a decent king or better and fold pretty much everything else. Surely we want to call, make it look like we have a draw, and hope he shoves the turn with whatever he has. Sure calling will put us behind hands like AK on the turn, but hes never folding it anyway. If the diamond 9 peeled he would probably still jam tptk.

this is so flawed. you're calling down anyway so why bother raising? You're giving yourself only one way to win this pot, that's not winning poker.OP flatted the straddle b/c he knew that no matter what the poster was raising, expected result happened, he hit as good a flop as he's going to w/ qjdd, flatting here and giving utg a chance to run us down or push us off the turn isn't a winner.Say utg has aj and fired the flop, raising gets a fold and a nice pot for us, flatting means the maniac could shove a blank turn w/ good equity against us as we've played our hand as passively as possible.This hand is about fold equity not max value. And the flop is the only street you need to be playing here.

[Dictius 0]

Yeah he won't fold AK to a shove, but whatever we have 48% equity if he has that so it's still +ev to get it in.We are a favourite over pretty much any non-King, non-set hand he has. We are even a favourite over T8 (52.7%).If this guy's range is super wide we make money by him folding his junky hands that still have some equity in the pot. When he folds his 56o he is giving us his equity in the pot and we profit. If he calls with those hands we profit also because we are a favourite.

[Dictius 0]

I'm next to act and the player behind me is definetly folding.

Also how can you know this? If the player behind does decide to call your shove, you could possibly be getting it in 3ways with ~50% equity.

[TrueAce13 18]

Doesn't our hand a ton of value and not just FE?

[mtdesmoines 3]

I don't know how this hand isn't a raise. About half the time, villain has a 7 high FD and is calling anyway.You don't know the power of the flush draw in live poker.

[Solar 0]

Also how can you know this? If the player behind does decide to call your shove, you could possibly be getting it in 3ways with ~50% equity.

The player behind is further reason to just call the flop bet.Why are we in such a hurry to give up our good drawing odds in order to isolate and flip against one opponent? If villain has for example, AT, on the turn we still have an insane number of outs and the precious fold equity. In a way the question is how much more we get out of hands that would fold to a raise when we hit on the turn, compared to how much we lose in fold equity by flatting the turn. I think we lose very little in equity by not shoving, as most of the hands he would call with we flip against. I also think that this guy sounds like enough of a spew tard that he will pay us off with weaker hands if/when we hit.

[Solar 0]

If this guy's range is super wide we make money by him folding his junky hands that still have some equity in the pot. When he folds his 56o he is giving us his equity in the pot and we profit. If he calls with those hands we profit also because we are a favourite.

This assumes that he is not going to put any more money in with a rubbish hand, which I think is wrong. Sure you gain some by having him fold 56o, but you gain 10 times as much when he spazzes on the turn.

[pokerinc 0]

This assumes that he is not going to put any more money in with a rubbish hand, which I think is wrong. Sure you gain some by having him fold 56o, but you gain 10 times as much when he spazzes on the turn.

On the turn you've lost a lot of equity in the hand, you're only 30% to run down ajcc even. A big pot bet on the turn means you're off the hand and you've played this in a way to feed the aggro donk as much as possible keeping him as comfortable as possible.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

The player behind is further reason to just call the flop bet.Why are we in such a hurry to give up our good drawing odds in order to isolate and flip against one opponent? If villain has for example, AT, on the turn we still have an insane number of outs and the precious fold equity. In a way the question is how much more we get out of hands that would fold to a raise when we hit on the turn, compared to how much we lose in fold equity by flatting the turn. I think we lose very little in equity by not shoving, as most of the hands he would call with we flip against. I also think that this guy sounds like enough of a spew tard that he will pay us off with weaker hands if/when we hit.

I thought about this hand and everyone's responses and I agree with that it's nice to take it down right there, but I agree more with this bolded part in particular.^^^Why are we in such a hurry to flip coins with dumb asses?Hell, there's even a chance that Q high is the best hand right now. I don't want to scare this guy away so quick if he does have nothing. If he has the K, then he's pushing and we're flipping. If he doesn't have the K, then he's folding and we probably had him anyway.

[Chris-LFC 0]

Raise god damn it! i raise this every time,this guy could have any 2 cards,you know he's a maniac,he may even come over the top of your raise with weaker flush draws and straight draws,JAM IT!

[rbakken2504 0]

Like so many people have said before in this post, its a simple play....raise the flop, all day and twice on sundays. You should look at EVERY hand from an equity standpoint, not that you dont have a made hand yet, you're still a favorite against most of this players holdings. By raising, you are increasing your fold equity, increasing your overall equity. If the player behind you decides to shove and UTG calls, thats even better as now you're getting a monster price and still huge equity.This isnt a tourney situation where you may want to play cautiously, in cash games, this is a ram, jam, thank you ma'am every single time

[dead money 1]

I thought about this hand and everyone's responses and I agree with that it's nice to take it down right there, but I agree more with this bolded part in particular.^^^Why are we in such a hurry to flip coins with dumb asses?Hell, there's even a chance that Q high is the best hand right now. I don't want to scare this guy away so quick if he does have nothing. If he has the K, then he's pushing and we're flipping. If he doesn't have the K, then he's folding and we probably had him anyway.

You arent flipping a coin. You dont know he will call a push. And thats why you do it. FE is paramount. Those of you who are advocating a call are misinterpreting smallball strategy.

[TrueAce13 18]

You arent flipping a coin. You dont know he will call a push. And thats why you do it. FE is paramount. Those of you who are advocating a call are misinterpreting smallball strategy.

Can you explain?And I'm one who is advocating for a ship

[dead money 1]

Can you explain?And I'm one who is advocating for a ship

It just seems to me they are employing the marginal hand, keep the pot small, strategy. Dont scare away worse hands and keep the pot small when we are behind. This works well when we have a marginal hand where we have little or no outs if we are behind, but its a bad play when we have a monster draw. Our hand cant be a huge underdog and we can add FE. Makes a reraise a no brainer. They are using smallball strategy incorrectly. It just looks that way to me.

[NonZeroPossibility 0]

OK look, here's the thing. I agree with raising someone who plays tighter/more competent. I understand the FE, blah blah blah.... Totally would agree with that.Raising a guy like this with Q high just seems wrong though. You know he's gonna put it in with any 2 every other hand so why not make our hand first and then make him pay? There's a reason they say you shouldn't bluff idiots. And I realize this is a semi-bluff, but we are either Wayyyyyy ahead or flipping a coin if he ends up pushing over the top of us. I pretty much want this guy around until the river no matter what. I'm trying to bust villain with the lowest amount of risk to me. Not take down a $30 pot or flip a coin for it all.

[rbakken2504 0]

OK look, here's the thing. I agree with raising someone who plays tighter/more competent. I understand the FE, blah blah blah.... Totally would agree with that.Raising a guy like this with Q high just seems wrong though. You know he's gonna put it in with any 2 every other hand so why not make our hand first and then make him pay? There's a reason they say you shouldn't bluff idiots. And I realize this is a semi-bluff, but we are either Wayyyyyy ahead or flipping a coin if he ends up pushing over the top of us. I pretty much want this guy around until the river no matter what. I'm trying to bust villain with the lowest amount of risk to me. Not take down a $30 pot or flip a coin for it all.

Thats a good concept for tournies, but not in cash games.

[river_me_this 0]

thanks for the advice guys i think after reading all of it the way I would go is raising reason being this guy would legitimatly call with bottom pair or a under pair but would fold if he didn't have a pair so FE is there and his range of hands to call me with is absolutely ridiculus so I think the line I'll go with next time is raising.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Like so many people have said before in this post, its a simple play....raise the flop, all day and twice on sundays. You should look at EVERY hand from an equity standpoint, not that you dont have a made hand yet, you're still a favorite against most of this players holdings. By raising, you are increasing your fold equity, increasing your overall equity. If the player behind you decides to shove and UTG calls, thats even better as now you're getting a monster price and still huge equity.This isnt a tourney situation where you may want to play cautiously, in cash games, this is a ram, jam, thank you ma'am every single time

I'm going to say something radical and assert that for playing this hand into a raise, we pretty much DO have a made hand. "Made" in the sense that if we get called, the called has to dodge about half the deck.

OK look, here's the thing. I agree with raising someone who plays tighter/more competent. I understand the FE, blah blah blah.... Totally would agree with that.Raising a guy like this with Q high just seems wrong though. You know he's gonna put it in with any 2 every other hand so why not make our hand first and then make him pay? There's a reason they say you shouldn't bluff idiots. And I realize this is a semi-bluff, but we are either Wayyyyyy ahead or flipping a coin if he ends up pushing over the top of us. I pretty much want this guy around until the river no matter what. I'm trying to bust villain with the lowest amount of risk to me. Not take down a $30 pot or flip a coin for it all.

You aren't understanding.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Like so many people have said before in this post, its a simple play....raise the flop, all day and twice on sundays. You should look at EVERY hand from an equity standpoint, not that you dont have a made hand yet, you're still a favorite against most of this players holdings. By raising, you are increasing your fold equity, increasing your overall equity. If the player behind you decides to shove and UTG calls, thats even better as now you're getting a monster price and still huge equity.This isnt a tourney situation where you may want to play cautiously, in cash games, this is a ram, jam, thank you ma'am every single time

I'm going to say something radical and assert that for playing this hand into a raise, we pretty much DO have a made hand. "Made" in the sense that if we get called, the caller has to dodge about half the deck.

OK look, here's the thing. I agree with raising someone who plays tighter/more competent. I understand the FE, blah blah blah.... Totally would agree with that.Raising a guy like this with Q high just seems wrong though. You know he's gonna put it in with any 2 every other hand so why not make our hand first and then make him pay? There's a reason they say you shouldn't bluff idiots. And I realize this is a semi-bluff, but we are either Wayyyyyy ahead or flipping a coin if he ends up pushing over the top of us. I pretty much want this guy around until the river no matter what. I'm trying to bust villain with the lowest amount of risk to me. Not take down a $30 pot or flip a coin for it all.

You aren't understanding.