Small Ball

[Burnside 0]

First off you've probably already gathered that i'm pretty new to poker. I play in the microstakes for free entertainment (on pokerstars) and seem to fail at playing small ball (mainly in SnGs but also in cash games). I think i might ahve the wrong idea about it.Okay so what i gather is that small ball involves getting into as many pots as possible in position with cards with high implied odds as well as good cards (preferably with 1 or 2 opponents). After this you out play your opponent through good reads and taking small stabs at the pot (backing off at the first sign of resistance unless you have a good hand)I however have a very mixed understanding of how this is supposed to work:Are we supposed to continuously make good reads to take the pot at the right time while the opponent shows he has a weak hand?Or are we supposed to build an aggresive image while staying even through our steals so that we will get a big pay off when we hit the nuts?There are also situations where i just can't think of what to doif i hit top pair on a dry board do i check behind or do i bet at it as if i'm bluffing?If there are multiple limpers every hand do i increase the raise size in accordance to how large the pot is or do i just fold and change my style of play?If i have a hand such as AKo or J10s out of position what do i do?

[BigMagic 0]

First off you've probably already gathered that i'm pretty new to poker. I play in the microstakes for free entertainment (on pokerstars) and seem to fail at playing small ball (mainly in SnGs but also in cash games). I think i might ahve the wrong idea about it.Okay so what i gather is that small ball involves getting into as many pots as possible in position with cards with high implied odds as well as good cards (preferably with 1 or 2 opponents). After this you out play your opponent through good reads and taking small stabs at the pot (backing off at the first sign of resistance unless you have a good hand)I however have a very mixed understanding of how this is supposed to work:Are we supposed to continuously make good reads to take the pot at the right time while the opponent shows he has a weak hand?Or are we supposed to build an aggresive image while staying even through our steals so that we will get a big pay off when we hit the nuts?There are also situations where i just can't think of what to doif i hit top pair on a dry board do i check behind or do i bet at it as if i'm bluffing?If there are multiple limpers every hand do i increase the raise size in accordance to how large the pot is or do i just fold and change my style of play?If i have a hand such as AKo or J10s out of position what do i do?

I suggest you pay for POKERVT, you'll learn the strategy and why its so effective. There is no two paragraph answer to small ball, you try to avoid being allin and play hands that turn into big hands like suited connectors. If you encounter resistance get out, weakness take it down you have to have position to be effective. The donkament tourneys on stars everyone limps and calls any small raise so its more effective in a bigger buyin tournament. You can play some smallball once the DONKEYs have either been knocked out or aquired huge stacks. Pay the money for Poker VT, learn from someone who can teach you the right way so you don't have to play 1 million hands to get the hang of it. Good Luck!I am by no means a master of smallball, I have used it effectively when the table permits both in cash and tournaments. I have built multiple BRs and lost them when I moved up, I am joining as soon as I can win a free sign up fee from "All Strategy".

[gouldjr27 0]

I would say get some more experience under your belt before jumping into small ball.A lot of it is hand reading skills, etc. and you get that from playing.

[kkot 0]

First off you've probably already gathered that i'm pretty new to poker. I play in the microstakes for free entertainment (on pokerstars) and seem to fail at playing small ball (mainly in SnGs but also in cash games). I think i might ahve the wrong idea about it.

I think you have the wrong idea about SNG play in general. Assuming you are talking about standard 9/10 man STTs, you shouldn't be playing very many pots with low blinds. So a smallball type strategy won't be your best option.

[Sens-Eh 0]

I think you have the wrong idea about SNG play in general. Assuming you are talking about standard 9/10 man STTs, you shouldn't be playing very many pots with low blinds. So a smallball type strategy won't be your best option.

agreed.smallball is more a strategy for large MTT's with deep stacks. Your basic SNG STT strategy is to fold unless you have a premium hand and then pump the pot way up. Else keep on folding until blinds get high. Let them steal your 30T$.

[kkot 0]

Daniel often talks about his smallball strategy on All Strategy with Justin Bonomo. It's a pretty good radio show that should help answer a lot of questions.edit: Oops! forgot the linkhttp://www.pokerroad.com/all_strategy/archive/

[rayen 0]

First off you've probably already gathered that i'm pretty new to poker. I play in the microstakes for free entertainment (on pokerstars) and seem to fail at playing small ball (mainly in SnGs but also in cash games). I think i might ahve the wrong idea about it.Okay so what i gather is that small ball involves getting into as many pots as possible in position with cards with high implied odds as well as good cards (preferably with 1 or 2 opponents). After this you out play your opponent through good reads and taking small stabs at the pot (backing off at the first sign of resistance unless you have a good hand)I however have a very mixed understanding of how this is supposed to work:Are we supposed to continuously make good reads to take the pot at the right time while the opponent shows he has a weak hand?Or are we supposed to build an aggresive image while staying even through our steals so that we will get a big pay off when we hit the nuts?There are also situations where i just can't think of what to doif i hit top pair on a dry board do i check behind or do i bet at it as if i'm bluffing?If there are multiple limpers every hand do i increase the raise size in accordance to how large the pot is or do i just fold and change my style of play?If i have a hand such as AKo or J10s out of position what do i do?

The main thing about small-ball is that it requires very good hand reading to master it since you will very often be in sticky situations where its alot of things going on.Are we supposed to continuously make good reads to take the pot at the right time while the opponent shows he has a weak hand?The thing about taking stab at the pot is that you never want to be consistent with it. If you make a pattern of things opponents will pick up on it(even weak ones) and they will start calling you down or raising you with weaker hands and when it happends it is time for you to change gear and not be so aggressive.Or are we supposed to build an aggresive image while staying even through our steals so that we will get a big pay off when we hit the nuts?It is good to be aggressive but you shouldnt play hands like lets say k-3 offsuit just so that opponents will think you are aggressive .... becuase you will from time to time be in a situation where you dont get any cards for a long time and its important to stay patient in that period. Steals I wouldnt recommend in cashgames since people tend to call your raises with just about anything while in SNG you just dont want to be playing hands in the earlier rounds unless you have a very strong one .... though in the later stages when less than 10bb steals is vital.if i hit top pair on a dry board do i check behind or do i bet at it as if i'm bluffing?It all depends on what you have done earlier and what of opponent you are dealing with. Let's say you are dealing with the TAG(Tight-aggressive) and you bet the flop like 60% of pot. Opponents goes in the tank and call your bet. If the flop was rainbow(all different suits) you must consider that he has A: Top pair, stronger or weaker kicker B: Slowplaying a set or C: Possibly overpair ... though its much more likely that he will raise with it on flop.If you are dealing with a LAG(Loose-aggressive) type of player you should be betting more like 70-80% of the pot considering he will call you down alot of times with second best hand or possible top-pair rag type of hand. You should also consider what you have done in the past .... if you have bet the flop allways when you have top pair you should consider check-raising if you seldom take a stab at the flop. If you allways checkraise the flop with top-pair you should consider betting it. Its all about decieving your opponents If there are multiple limpers every hand do i increase the raise size in accordance to how large the pot is or do i just fold and change my style of play?There is a general rule that you raise 2,5-3,5 the bb+1 bb for every limper ...though if there is limping almost every time I would consider adding some more since they will likely call you with rag hands like Ace rag, King rag or pocket pairs. If they start folding to your raises then you must adapt and make it less. If there is a player that seems to raise often when there is limpers .. you should consider limping with a big hand and reraise him when he raise it.Hope it helps little bit

[potatoman 0]

There's nothing wrong with studying small ball as a new player. But don't expect positive results for a while.Small ball forces you to make a lot more decision than when just playing a tight aggressive style. On the positive side, it also forces your opponents to make a lot of decisions as well.Some of those decisions will be difficult and if you don't have good reading abilities, patience or tilt control, you're going to get into a lot of trouble.And just like anything else in poker, small ball is a strategy, not a bunch of hard and fast rules on how to play. On PokerVT, or in Daniel's book, he does provide a pretty solid beginners strategy which puts a lot of pressure on your opponents and would probably be profitable at the lower limits.Finally, as mentioned, small ball is probably best employed in deep-stack situations, not in sngs.

[Burnside 0]

Thanks for the response guys. I'm playing microstakes cash games now because i don't have periods of time long enough to play any SnG other than heads up.Really appreciate the help it's straightened things up i think. :PThanks again

[nosoul 0]

And just like anything else in poker, small ball is a strategy, not a bunch of hard and fast rules on how to play.

This is the most important concept you need to grasp. Everything you do depends on how your opponents play. For example, small ball will never work on tables where the other players won't let you use it. So, let's say you want to play small ball and raise 2-3x the blind when you have a good starting hand. However, half the other people at the table always raise 10x or more or will re-raise you 20x just to push you around. Small ball goes out the window.You need to figure out how the other players at the table are playing and adjust your play accordingly. Small ball is a style of play that works in certain situations. So is the style Brunson describes in SS1. You need to get a feel for the table you're on and use whatever strategy gives you the best chance against those opponents.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Small ball forces you to make a lot more decision than when just playing a tight aggressive style. On the positive side, it also forces your opponents to make a lot of decisions as well. Some of those decisions will be difficult and if you don't have good reading abilities, patience or tilt control, you're going to get into a lot of trouble.

I'm playing microstakes cash games now

I don't know how it's all gonna work for you ...

[apollo166 0]

This is the most important concept you need to grasp. Everything you do depends on how your opponents play. For example, small ball will never work on tables where the other players won't let you use it. So, let's say you want to play small ball and raise 2-3x the blind when you have a good starting hand. However, half the other people at the table always raise 10x or more or will re-raise you 20x just to push you around. Small ball goes out the window.You need to figure out how the other players at the table are playing and adjust your play accordingly. Small ball is a style of play that works in certain situations. So is the style Brunson describes in SS1. You need to get a feel for the table you're on and use whatever strategy gives you the best chance against those opponents.

well said sir

[MovingIn 0]

Guys, stacks in online SNGs just aren't deep enough to play pure smallball. You can exercise some smallball strategic principles in position when the blinds are low, the flop comes right and you're not seeing too many opponents on a flop, but generally the faster tourneys online require more focused, aggressive strategies.Also, smallball is about manipulating players' tendencies and bluffing them off of pots, but so many of your opponents at the micro level are oblivious to anything beyond 1st level play that any lines taken to set up smallball-style bluffs usually won't work because your villains aren't going to notice.

[Fernandino19 0]

Hello guys. This is my first post and I saw no reason creating another topic to talk about this... So... I see you all talking about small ball and stuff...Recently I read a Gus Hansen's book and he said something about a paul wasicka's small ball pre-flop raise:the blinds were10K/20K with 3K ante... This part goes:"Paul Wasicka open for 50K on the button and I call automatically in the BB. I have noticed that Paul loves those small pre-flop raises, but I have no idea why...It seem to me that a 50K raise fails to deliver a forcefull punch, as many poker player with regard for their own abilities will call 30K more in order to win 98K."Well... What i'm trying to ask you guys is:Suck an excelent player as gus hansen, a close friend of DN making an observation about wasicka's raise made me think about it... I THINK "maybe i've got the wrong idea about it"... I know that the case is to play a lot of small pots and try to trap aponnets and hit a hand like a str8 or a flush or better, but, the gus hansen's comment made me think... In a tournment where blinds are that big, this kind of bet wouldn't force a call from the SB and BB or possibly a raise from either one of them (more likely) and then, probably(JUS PROBABLY), a fold from the small-baller leaving him -50K?PS: Sorry for my bad english... i'm from brasil and sometimes i write in English, but still THINK in portuguese...PS2: I'm not pointing ANY KIND OF flaws on SmallBall, no way! For me it worked a lot in a lot of tournments i've played live..For me, it worked better then SSS, Gus hansen's kamikaze stile, phill gordon's green book, even brunsons(both todd and doyle) style is weaker than Small Ball... I think myself that Small-Ball is the key of success...o_O

[kreppsen 0]

Also, smallball is about manipulating players' tendencies and bluffing them off of pots, but so many of your opponents at the micro level are oblivious to anything beyond 1st level play that any lines taken to set up smallball-style bluffs usually won't work because your villains aren't going to notice.

Don't throw pearls to pigs, it's that simple. You gotta play at your villains level, and if he plays very simple poker, there's not much in it planning fancy strategies, building an image and what so ever cause they won't even give it a thought when playing against you. You just gotta keep it real simple and hit their weaknesses hard.

[Merby 3]

Recently I read a Gus Hansen's book and he said something about a paul wasicka's small ball pre-flop raise:the blinds were10K/20K with 3K ante... This part goes:"Paul Wasicka open for 50K on the button and I call automatically in the BB. I have noticed that Paul loves those small pre-flop raises, but I have no idea why...It seem to me that a 50K raise fails to deliver a forcefull punch, as many poker player with regard for their own abilities will call 30K more in order to win 98K."

Welcome!I chuckle to think that Gus Hansen looks down his nose at the 2.5xBB open in the ante phase of a tournament saying that the raise is TOO SMALL! (Just to clarify, I'm laughing at Gus Hansen, not you, Fernandino)

[RISEorFall 0]

I chuckle to think that Gus Hansen looks down his nose at the 2.5xBB open in the ante phase of a tournament saying that the raise is TOO SMALL! (Just to clarify, I'm laughing at Gus Hansen, not you, Fernandino)

that's because Gus is calling almost every single one of these raises regardless of his hand. the price you are laying with the small ball raises, especially when the antes are big, is a really good price for a TON of hands. the small raise when Gus is in the blind is not giving you any kind of chance to steal the blinds, which is most of the premise of the small preflop raise. it only has to steal the blinds/antes half the time to show a profit, and it should much more often than that, regardless of what happens post flop. but not when you have one of the best players in the world in the blind. you're only winning the blinds like 5% of the time with the small raise on Gus' blind. therefore, in order for the raise to be successful you have to then be able to outplay Gus postflop. It may work for DN or wasicka b/c their postflop skills are probably close to on par with Gus', and having position gives them an advantage. But if you think you can outplay Gus postflop, even with position, then GL to you, sir.

[Merby 3]

that's because Gus is calling almost every single one of these raises regardless of his hand. the price you are laying with the small ball raises, especially when the antes are big, is a really good price for a TON of hands. the small raise when Gus is in the blind is not giving you any kind of chance to steal the blinds, which is most of the premise of the small preflop raise. it only has to steal the blinds/antes half the time to show a profit, and it should much more often than that, regardless of what happens post flop. but not when you have one of the best players in the world in the blind. you're only winning the blinds like 5% of the time with the small raise on Gus' blind. therefore, in order for the raise to be successful you have to then be able to outplay Gus postflop. It may work for DN or wasicka b/c their postflop skills are probably close to on par with Gus', and having position gives them an advantage. But if you think you can outplay Gus postflop, even with position, then GL to you, sir.

Not at all... I certainly like raising 3xBB and folding to 3-bets left and right like Isabelle "No Mercy" Mercier masterfully did on her way to winning the Sunday Million watching Zimmer4141 win the Sunday million.

[kreppsen 0]

Not at all... I certainly like raising 3xBB and folding to 3-bets left and right like Isabelle "No Mercy" Mercier masterfully did on her way to winning the Sunday Million watching Zimmer4141 win the Sunday million.

That really was one horrible FT for the Merci-less.

[DemonDonk 0]

At the micros stick to your ABCs, always remember the V - Value Betting.