SGFULTON83 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 i dont think GWC is the only culprit here. Plenty of people didnt show up alot down the stretch, making it a bit easier to win the tourny vs only 25 or 30 legit players the last few weeks, whereas pryme, who won twice in the first 3 weeks of the series, likely did that vs nearly full fields of 40 people that tried and showed up.theres at minimum 10people outta the 40 that shouldnt be allowed in this again due to their attendance issues.the best way to alieviate this problem 1) is to charge 2x the entry fee the last few weeks of the competition, so that those that cash can keep half as an incentive to continue. 2) to only let the top 20 (50% of the field) get a stake in the winners. people ar emore likely to take it serious if they have to work for thier stake, as nearly all 40 would have a shot the final week to get a piece of the horse.and did people really not enter the final week to save 50cents juice? people more concerned with saving 50cents than the integrity of this league cant really be counted on to play the vegas event can they?I agree about the attendance stuff, I mean sure everyone has things come up but to miss multiple tournaments seems a bit unfair to those who were trying and those who didn't get to play because it was full. Not sure how to regulate this, but I can see the arguement. Still, DNA put in a GREAT effort running this thing and hope he does something similar next year and I can get in. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 I'm not gonna comment on any players play, because I think the others have covered it. I definitely consider this promotion a huge success and have currently collected $4395 out of $4400 which is amazing all considering.I also definitely see this happening again in the future with a few tweaks, the main tweak being we would need to escrow the money somewhere besides stars and people will pay their full buyin in advance and just keep whatever they win in the $5 tourneys or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
seacucumber 2 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Yeah, I must agree that there shouldn't be hostility towards GWC b/c if the Q didn't come, you want people to make those plays. Yeah, you lost and it sucked. But I mean, at the same time nnb had a straight hit on him for the seat as well. I just think: take the beat, move on, hopefully he will make a big cashGG to everyone and hopefully I will see you in VegasThis. Certainly understand the frustration (as I was telling a couple other FCPers that I felt bad how Billy busted) but I can assure you that there wasn't any ill-will on GWC's part nor was it player specific. I missed his announcement at first and didn't realize what he was doing until after I played a few hands against him, but he told everyone how he was going to play (limping all ranges and may call with marginal hands). I lost about 1/3 of my stack with 88 vs his K7 (could have lost more in that hand and I also played JJ so passively vs his ATC that I don't think I've ever played JJ more passively) and IIRC Gobears also lost to a bad beat by GWC that either eliminated or severely crippled Gobears. What I am trying to say is that sure, GWC played an unorthodox style yesterday but it wasn't with malicious intent or to harm/help anyone as we all had to adjust to him. Not sure how much it might help, but hopefully chgocubs99 and I will do well and make mobnies for everyone to help soothe some of the frustrations.Special thanks to you seacucumber, appreciate the very generous tip.(doh, you weren't suppose to let everyone know about my little bribe to rig the satty for me...)This is the event I am playing as well. We'll have to meet up sometime that day and say hi.Awesome. Definitely should meet up before the event. Are you staying at the FCP House?Congrats to Frank and Chris!!Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do apologize for coming off as hostile but if y'all knew the crap I've been going through in recent months you'd understand why this was so huge for me. I've undergone a lot of horrible beats in my poker career but this was by far the worse. The thing that got me was you had a couple guys playing for $2,200 and others playing it like an FPP SNG. Maybe a way to avoid this in the future would be to have the 1st ten weeks be a qualifying week and then the top 9 could play it out in the end in sort of a final table format. Just an idea.. Link to post Share on other sites
dna4ever 2 Posted April 27, 2009 Author Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do apologize for coming off as hostile but if y'all knew the crap I've been going through in recent months you'd understand why this was so huge for me. I've undergone a lot of horrible beats in my poker career but this was by far the worse. The thing that got me was you had a couple guys playing for $2,200 and others playing it like an FPP SNG. Maybe a way to avoid this in the future would be to have the 1st ten weeks be a qualifying week and then the top 9 could play it out in the end in sort of a final table format. Just an idea.. I think this could have some legs to it. Only those that are not mathematically eliminated going into the last week would get the special password for the final tournament. Could be about 15 of the 40 and 15th may only have a chance to win if the top 3 bust 1st 2nd, 3rd, but if there is any potential way they could win then they would be allowed to participate, everyone else would just not participate. Certainly kinks and tweaks like this can be made. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I think this could have some legs to it. Only those that are not mathematically eliminated going into the last week would get the special password for the final tournament. Could be about 15 of the 40 and 15th may only have a chance to win if the top 3 bust 1st 2nd, 3rd, but if there is any potential way they could win then they would be allowed to participate, everyone else would just not participate. Certainly kinks and tweaks like this can be made.Yeah, that would sound good for something like this. Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Congrats to Frank and Chris!! This. Certainly understand the frustration (as I was telling a couple other FCPers that I felt bad how Billy busted) but I can assure you that there wasn't any ill-will on GWC's part nor was it player specific. I missed his announcement at first and didn't realize what he was doing until after I played a few hands against him, but he told everyone how he was going to play (limping all ranges and may call with marginal hands). I lost about 1/3 of my stack with 88 vs his K7 (could have lost more in that hand and I also played JJ so passively vs his ATC that I don't think I've ever played JJ more passively) and IIRC Gobears also lost to a bad beat by GWC that either eliminated or severely crippled Gobears. What I am trying to say is that sure, GWC played an unorthodox style yesterday but it wasn't with malicious intent or to harm/help anyone as we all had to adjust to him. Hopefully chgocubs99 and I will do well and make mobnies for everyone to help soothe the frustrations.(doh, you weren't suppose to let everyone know about my little bribe to rig the satty for me...)Awesome. Definitely should meet up before the event. Are you staying at the FCP House?Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee I think this could have some legs to it. Only those that are not mathematically eliminated going into the last week would get the special password for the final tournament. Could be about 15 of the 40 and 15th may only have a chance to win if the top 3 bust 1st 2nd, 3rd, but if there is any potential way they could win then they would be allowed to participate, everyone else would just not participate. Certainly kinks and tweaks like this can be made.I think this idea has merit as well. I loved the tourney and it was fun playing, great competition etc.As far as Billy goes, I was at the table and felt bad for him but to say it's ruining a life experience of $2200 is a little overboard. ( Re:Life fcking tilt)I'd also like to mention that after starting out to a big lead a few weeks later I noticed that he missed around the first hour of the tourney. He finally showed up late and said, "I forgot about this thing". Not exactly the actions of someone looking to fulfill a "lifetime experience." Link to post Share on other sites
noflukeluke 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Perhaps a good thing to do (especially if it is only $110 again) is make everyone ship the entire amount up front like the newbie no-namers like myself had to do to get involved. Then you could actually PROMOTE people not even signing up if they had other things to do or bigger tourneys to play.I thought it worked 10000% better when people would just not show up and ship DNA the $5. That way, people didn't just get to sit out to get to 20th place, and they get the auto last place points. And maybe people wouldn't all-in every hand just to triple up or bust... (it is still impressive that whatarunaa made the money after sitting out 90% of the tourney).The first of anything will usually have some kinks. Kudos to DNA for making it 99% smooth sailing. Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I think this idea has merit as well. I loved the tourney and it was fun playing, great competition etc.As far as Billy goes, I was at the table and felt bad for him but to say it's ruining a life experience of $2200 is a little overboard. ( Re:Life fcking tilt)I'd also like to mention that after starting out to a big lead a few weeks later I noticed that he missed around the first hour of the tourney. He finally showed up late and said, "I forgot about this thing". Not exactly the actions of someone looking to fulfill a "lifetime experience."Yeah man I remember that week and it pissed me off that I missed it. An old friend of mine actually visited from out of town unexpectedly and I went with him to buy some food. It was an honest mistake but oh well Link to post Share on other sites
dreamcaster 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do apologize for coming off as hostile but if y'all knew the crap I've been going through in recent months you'd understand why this was so huge for me. I've undergone a lot of horrible beats in my poker career but this was by far the worse. The thing that got me was you had a couple guys playing for $2,200 and others playing it like an FPP SNG. Maybe a way to avoid this in the future would be to have the 1st ten weeks be a qualifying week and then the top 9 could play it out in the end in sort of a final table format. Just an idea..^^^this Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 i dont think GWC is the only culprit here. Plenty of people didnt show up alot down the stretch, making it a bit easier to win the tourny vs only 25 or 30 legit players the last few weeks, whereas pryme, who won twice in the first 3 weeks of the series, likely did that vs nearly full fields of 40 people that tried and showed up.theres at minimum 10people outta the 40 that shouldnt be allowed in this again due to their attendance issues.the best way to alieviate this problem 1) is to charge 2x the entry fee the last few weeks of the competition, so that those that cash can keep half as an incentive to continue. 2) to only let the top 20 (50% of the field) get a stake in the winners. people ar emore likely to take it serious if they have to work for thier stake, as nearly all 40 would have a shot the final week to get a piece of the horse.and did people really not enter the final week to save 50cents juice? people more concerned with saving 50cents than the integrity of this league cant really be counted on to play the vegas event can they?ya i actually agree with dscoot for once...pretty pathetic that people didnt take it seriously enough because it definitely influenced how it played out. oh wells....these ideas seem decent as well as dnasI think this idea has merit as well. I loved the tourney and it was fun playing, great competition etc.As far as Billy goes, I was at the table and felt bad for him but to say it's ruining a life experience of $2200 is a little overboard. ( Re:Life fcking tilt)I'd also like to mention that after starting out to a big lead a few weeks later I noticed that he missed around the first hour of the tourney. He finally showed up late and said, "I forgot about this thing". Not exactly the actions of someone looking to fulfill a "lifetime experience."meh i mean it is pretty life tilting....idk much about billy but losing out on a wsop seat like this is life tilting....its not really overboard at all imo...poker is a very big aspect of many peoples lives on this forum...obviously there are a ton of recreational players who clearly shouldnt be as "life tilted but for someone who plays poker quite a lot and does it professionally/semi-professionally and wants to play in the wsop i dont think we should call them out for being mad about something like this Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ya i actually agree with dscoot for once...pretty pathetic that people didnt take it seriously enough because it definitely influenced how it played out. oh wells....these ideas seem decent as well as dnasmeh i mean it is pretty life tilting....idk much about billy but losing out on a wsop seat like this is life tilting....its not really overboard at all imo...poker is a very big aspect of many peoples lives on this forum...obviously there are a ton of recreational players who clearly shouldnt be as "life tilted but for someone who plays poker quite a lot and does it professionally/semi-professionally and wants to play in the wsop i dont think we should call them out for being mad about something like thisI really feel for Billy as well. I know how he feels in the sense that most of the guys in this, really really wanted to do well and win. Personally, I really really really tried to play my best and have a good showing in this, and I ran badly overall and to top it off with me just getting insta coolered 3 times at the final table yesterday, it makes it a tough pill to swallow. I really think that Billy played well and deserved a seat to be completely honest.I also really was dissapointed with the amount of guys just basically giving up, or not registering towards the end of this. I would definitely do this again, but there would have to be some changes made to the format to avoid these types of issues.TY DNA for running this, I really appreciate it. Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ya i actually agree with dscoot for once...pretty pathetic that people didnt take it seriously enough because it definitely influenced how it played out. oh wells....these ideas seem decent as well as dnasmeh i mean it is pretty life tilting....idk much about billy but losing out on a wsop seat like this is life tilting....its not really overboard at all imo...poker is a very big aspect of many peoples lives on this forum...obviously there are a ton of recreational players who clearly shouldnt be as "life tilted but for someone who plays poker quite a lot and does it professionally/semi-professionally and wants to play in the wsop i dont think we should call them out for being mad about something like thisYeah, that's fair. I would be bummed for missing it as well but I was just saying we we always say. It happens, move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 theres at minimum 10people outta the 40 that shouldnt be allowed in this again due to their attendance issues.2) to only let the top 20 (50% of the field) get a stake in the winners.This is such an outrageous and easy statement to make for someone with no real life committments. I guess it's your schtick or whatever to take things way too seriously, but come on. The reason anyone isn't playing / playing seriously aside, you realize it's amazingly +EV to have people not taking this seriously and people blinding off? It's not like there was collusion or chip dumping that actually targeted people specifically to alter the results. This isn't an arguable point. You're saying you don't want overlay. Please think about that a second. There are very obvious strategies you can employ in these situations and results aside, it is very, very good for you.I only ended up being able to play 3 weeks before I was almost guaranteed eliminated mathematically and I have zero regrets about it. I probably should have left my pregnant wife at the hospital to come play eh? Or tell our small group that our new meeting time doesn't work for me because I have a poker tournament scheduled sunday nights? Or maybe I shouldn't have spent 2 sundays volunteering? Guess what? There are more important things in life than poker - a lot of them. I don't know why you think the 9 other people shouldn't be allowed to play next time, but whatever their reasons were, they don't matter either because it was a good thing. To the people upset about the results, if winning a $1.5k seat to a WSOP event is genuinely life changing / ruining for you, you should seriously consider not playing poker. There's a reasonable chance you either don't have the level headedness to be a winning player long term or you aren't in a financial position to do so. If you were close, you still have a ton of equity in a couple great players. Be happy about that! The WSOP isn't going anywhere. This was suppossed to be fun. Poker is still a game. If it was your job, the results of this tournament would be immaterial to you anyway.Great job to the winners and thank you again to DNA for a ton of effort put into this and the 1 day event. I'm psyched to have a piece of all 3 of the people going and I'll see you out there. Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Perhaps a good thing to do (especially if it is only $110 again) is make everyone ship the entire amount up front like the newbie no-namers like myself had to do to get involved. Then you could actually PROMOTE people not even signing up if they had other things to do or bigger tourneys to play.I thought it worked 10000% better when people would just not show up and ship DNA the $5. That way, people didn't just get to sit out to get to 20th place, and they get the auto last place points. And maybe people wouldn't all-in every hand just to triple up or bust... (it is still impressive that whatarunaa made the money after sitting out 90% of the tourney).The first of anything will usually have some kinks. Kudos to DNA for making it 99% smooth sailing.I think this has merit. I think I finished about 5 of these things before the people who were sitting out hadn't even blinded out. Not to say that's their fault, but them getting rewarded for not showing up and me sucking at poker makes little sense.And again, thanks DNA! I had fun, despite me sucking. Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I think this has merit. I think I finished about 5 of these things before the people who were sitting out hadn't even blinded out. Not to say that's their fault, but them getting rewarded for not showing up and me sucking at poker makes little sense.And again, thanks DNA! I had fun, despite me sucking.Based on the exponential pokerstars point distribution, blinding out was almost the same as last place points, especially over the long run. You have to basically make top 8 or so for your finish to have any major effect on your standings. Link to post Share on other sites
no not baxter 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Based on the exponential pokerstars point distribution, blinding out was almost the same as last place points, especially over the long run. You have to basically make top 8 or so for your finish to have any major effect on your standings.ya but the ppl sitting out changes the strategies you should have for the competition Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 ya but the ppl sitting out changes the strategies you should have for the competitionHow? If you finish before or after them and not at the final table the result is basically the same. You get to steal uncontested blinds for 50 minutes and you still have to play for the final table. Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 How? If you finish before or after them and not at the final table the result is basically the same. You get to steal uncontested blinds for 50 minutes and you still have to play for the final table.You get to steal uncontested blinds but that strategy only works for a short period of time before people realize what you are doing and will 3 bet you light as f uck, therefore adding another level of thinking to a normally standard 45 man sng.I see what NNB is getting at. Link to post Share on other sites
Canuckickstan 2 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 You get to steal uncontested blinds but that strategy only works for a short period of time before people realize what you are doing and will 3 bet you light as f uck, therefore adding another level of thinking to a normally standard 45 man sng.I see what NNB is getting at.You must have been stuck at R-Dogs table too huh ? Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 You get to steal uncontested blinds but that strategy only works for a short period of time before people realize what you are doing and will 3 bet you light as f uck, therefore adding another level of thinking to a normally standard 45 man sng.I see what NNB is getting at.So you're saying in a normal tournament, no one adapts or 3 bets the guy light who is getting out of line or picking on the weaker players?Was everyone expecting that with the field in this thing it would be like playing a normal $10 45 man sit and go? Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 So you're saying in a normal tournament, no one adapts or 3 bets the guy light who is getting out of line or picking on the weaker players?Was everyone expecting that with the field in this thing it would be like playing a normal $10 45 man sit and go?No, that's not what i'm saying at all. I'm responding to your comment that you can steal uncontested b&a's due to them sitting out, which is correct in theory, but it's not an EXTREME advantage, and can be easily exploitable by pretty much anyone at the table. Link to post Share on other sites
GWCGWC 83 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I feel I should respond to Billy and anyone else that feels like I 'ruined' their chance at a seat. Billy, you don't have to accept my apology and you can remain bitter towards me for costing you a chance to play a $1500 wsop event. That's not exactly fair since I certainly didn't do anything wrong and it wasn't my direct action, but the results of the hand, that cost you a CHANCE at winning the seat. I clicked the call button twice with what I knew to be the worst hand. Big deal, bad players do this all the time which gives good players the edge in this game of poker. It's not my responsibility to pay attention to players who were still in the running for the seat. Making decisions based on this information would be unethical. I bought my chips just like everyone else and I'm allowed to play those chips in whatever fashion I choose within the rules of the game. I was on the fence about how to approach this tourney knowing I didn't have anything to gain by playing with a more traditional style. Sitting out affects the table dynamics as does open shoving every hand. After the first hand, I decided to limp 100% of hands and check/call if I had any reasonable chance to win the pot. I let the table know what I was doing in the chat. This style certainly had an effect on how people could play pots. I never made a bet/raise after the first hand of the tourney. I doubled up GoBears aipf KK<QQ, pretty standard. I think chicagocubsfanXX? busted me when I called his all in on the turn with what I thought was a gut shot and an ace giving me 7 clean outs. However, it was possible that I had 6 clean pair outs with a gut shot which makes the call pretty easy. Turns out he flopped two pair reducing my outs to 4. I'm not sure how he would have reacted if I hit and scooped the pot. You played on the table from the very start of the tourney and knew from my chat, along with the 30 or so hands that we played, exactly what I was doing. I'm not going to address the merits of shoving TT in that spot vs someone employing my unorthodox style, but I will say that you put your chips at risk, not me. I didn't know Seacucumer and GoBears were in the running. They both instantly adjusted to what I was doing and were very cautious when they played a hand. I wonder how you would feel if I chose to open shove every hand. You see me do this 3 times from the start and everyone realizes what I'm doing. The fourth hand, you call me with KK and I happen to have AA and bust you. How about if you call me on the fourth hand and I have KK vs your AA but the board comes QJT92 and I bust you. I can think of other scenarios where sitting out would have an effect on how a hand plays out where you could possibly use the results and harbor resentment towards the person who's sitting out due to the results of the hand. If I had played 'normally' and busted you on some cooler like set/set or FH/flush, I'm certain you would have the same disappointment about not winning a seat. Think about it. This post is way too long but it's better than posting my initial reaction to Billy's comments. Link to post Share on other sites
HubDub04 0 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 You must have been stuck at R-Dogs table too huh ?LOL, nah, he wasn't a real issue, even though he tried saying I snap called his 3 bet with Q9 or some shit that I don't recall ever happening.Still not sure what he was referring to. I play bad, I know, but I don't play THAT bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do apologize for coming off as hostile but if y'all knew the crap I've been going through in recent months you'd understand why this was so huge for me. I've undergone a lot of horrible beats in my poker career but this was by far the worse. The thing that got me was you had a couple guys playing for $2,200 and others playing it like an FPP SNG. Maybe a way to avoid this in the future would be to have the 1st ten weeks be a qualifying week and then the top 9 could play it out in the end in sort of a final table format. Just an idea.. You get to steal uncontested blinds but that strategy only works for a short period of time before people realize what you are doing and will 3 bet you light as f uck, therefore adding another level of thinking to a normally standard 45 man sng.I see what NNB is getting at.sigh nvm. Link to post Share on other sites
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