Universal Health Care...

[hblask 1]

Thanks to Bob for correcting your ignorant rants on this one. For what it's worth, I have several family members who have needed cardiac and emergency care, including transplants, and two right now on waiting lists.You are arguing with yourself. Half a page up you argue that poor people in the US don't suffer because the government so generously funds low-income medical care. So maybe Canada's system is just well-funded?

Hold on... there are no more waiting lists, but you have two relatives on those lists? You guys need to get your stories straight.

Thanks for pointing out that people will overuse something that has no direct costs, and those costs must be covered elsewhere, possibly by taxes. Don't know how we missed that.

Incentives matter in any financial system. A system that promises everything cannot be maintained for any meaningful length of time.A system in which people have incentive to plan, care for themselves, and conserve resources can be maintained indefinitely.This experiment has been done enough times, we know the result.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Hold on... there are no more waiting lists, but you have two relatives on those lists? You guys need to get your stories straight.Incentives matter in any financial system. A system that promises everything cannot be maintained for any meaningful length of time.A system in which people have incentive to plan, care for themselves, and conserve resources can be maintained indefinitely.This experiment has been done enough times, we know the result.

Yah, you know those pesky heart transplant wait lists. I guess in a private system the highest bidder would get first dibs on the available hearts.

[CaneBrain 95]

Incentives matter in any financial system. A system that promises everything cannot be maintained for any meaningful length of time.A system in which people have incentive to plan, care for themselves, and conserve resources can be maintained indefinitely.

And a system where a third party controls everything and has incentive to block you from health care is ideal? hahahah. thanks for the laugh. Care for themselves? Then why are our obesity rates so much worse than everywhere else? I think you keep describing the health care system in some other country I don't know. Because you can't possibly be describing the USA.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yah, you know those pesky heart transplant wait lists. I guess in a private system the highest bidder would get first dibs on the available hearts.

You think Jim Pattison would wait for a heart?

[hblask 1]

Yah, you know those pesky heart transplant wait lists. I guess in a private system the highest bidder would get first dibs on the available hearts.

Yeah, you know, like when you need blood, and you have to go to the hospital and go to an auction and outbid the richest person for a unit of blood. You're right, private ownership of your own body (parts) would never work.

[hblask 1]

And a system where a third party controls everything and has incentive to block you from health care is ideal? hahahah. thanks for the laugh. Care for themselves? Then why are our obesity rates so much worse than everywhere else? I think you keep describing the health care system in some other country I don't know. Because you can't possibly be describing the USA.

I never claimed our system was perfect, but it's closer than most other countries. First, those "third parties" have an enforceable contract with you. If there is problems with that enforcement, that is a failure of government, not the market. Second, we don't exactly have a free market in insurance; instead we have a system where people are encouraged by the tax code to get the most expensive policy available. That's just stupid. Fix it and many of the other problems will be solved.As for obesity, that's not exactly a result of our health care system, it's the result of Americans being rich, stubborn, and self-indulgent.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Yeah, you know, like when you need blood, and you have to go to the hospital and go to an auction and outbid the richest person for a unit of blood. You're right, private ownership of your own body (parts) would never work.

so you're comparing blood which there isn't a shortage of and people who need it get it to available hearts for transplants where there is a far larger need than there is a supply unless of course we get China to start killing more prisoners for body parts.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

You think Jim Pattison would wait for a heart?

Nope he'd have somebody killed in China and take theirs.

[Balloon guy 158]

Nope he'd have somebody killed in China and take theirs.

Problem with getting a heart from China is that two months later you want another one.

[mrdannyg 274]

Hold on... there are no more waiting lists, but you have two relatives on those lists? You guys need to get your stories straight.Incentives matter in any financial system. A system that promises everything cannot be maintained for any meaningful length of time.A system in which people have incentive to plan, care for themselves, and conserve resources can be maintained indefinitely.This experiment has been done enough times, we know the result.

I didn't read "there are no waiting lists," just that waiting times were reasonable and manageable. My relatives are not on those lists because there is nothing available, but because they are not urgent.The bolded is correct, and obvious. That's the nice thing about medical care - even if it is free, people still have incentive to care for themselves. You know, because getting a heart transplant is not exactly a day in the park, even if it is free.

Problem with getting a heart from China is that two months later you want another one.

BG wins, as per usual.

[Balloon guy 158]

I didn't read "there are no waiting lists," just that waiting times were reasonable and manageable. My relatives are not on those lists because there is nothing available, but because they are not urgent.The bolded is correct, and obvious. That's the nice thing about medical care - even if it is free, people still have incentive to care for themselves. You know, because getting a heart transplant is not exactly a day in the park, even if it is free.

Wondering which country you are talking about.Not China, where smoking like a chimney is the norm, as well as most of eastern Europe, the rest of the Orient, and the majority of South and Central America.Not in North America where fast food and obesity are the norm.Not in the former USSR, where pollution levels are at the highest in the country.In fact I'm not sure where people as a rule take care of themselves and it can be trusted enough to base an entire industry around it.

[mrdannyg 274]

Wondering which country you are talking about.Not China, where smoking like a chimney is the norm, as well as most of eastern Europe, the rest of the Orient, and the majority of South and Central America.Not in North America where fast food and obesity are the norm.Not in the former USSR, where pollution levels are at the highest in the country.In fact I'm not sure where people as a rule take care of themselves and it can be trusted enough to base an entire industry around it.

Logic and this post are not close friends.

[ShakeZuma 585]

Problem with getting a heart from China is that two months later you want another one.

this is one of the top five best things I've ever read.

[hblask 1]

so you're comparing blood which there isn't a shortage of and people who need it get it to available hearts for transplants where there is a far larger need than there is a supply unless of course we get China to start killing more prisoners for body parts.

Yes, I'm comparing a part of your body that you can legally sell to a part you can't legally sell. There is a shortage of one, and not the other.A few countries are experimenting with the radical notion that you own your own body, and can therefore sell it, either parts when you are alive, or in its entirety when you die. There are no waiting lists for organ transplants, and no black markets. Black markets can only occur when an outside force prevents price signals from determining supply and demand.

[hblask 1]

Problem with getting a heart from China is that two months later you want another one.

[CaneBrain 95]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/29/health.ca....html?hpt=hp_t1Federal Appeals court with a conservative justice majority upholds the individual mandate.

[akoff 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/06/29/health.ca....html?hpt=hp_t1Federal Appeals court with a conservative justice majority upholds the individual mandate.

lets hope the legal system is the next thing to be overhauled. judges and the entire court house in general make the normal public unions look hard working.

[CaneBrain 95]

lets hope the legal system is the next thing to be overhauled. judges and the entire court house in general make the normal public unions look hard working.

ok.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

lets hope the legal system is the next thing to be overhauled. judges and the entire court house in general make the normal public unions look hard working.

Yeah who needs judges. Can't free markets just take care of that? I'm so sick and tired of this country socialized judiciary. If companies provided judges, we'd save a ton of money because there'd be less bureaucrats in the way.

[Balloon guy 158]

ok. Let's hope not because I paid a lot in tuition to get a piece of this and it would suck if it all went away before I could make mine.

FYP

[Balloon guy 158]

Yeah who needs judges. Can't free markets just take care of that? I'm so sick and tired of this country socialized judiciary. If companies provided judges, we'd save a ton of money because there'd be less bureaucrats in the way.

you should come to California where 65% of the voters can be overturned by one judge three or four times and see if you still feel the same way.Of course you probably liked their rulings so maybe you should come here.In fact, stay there...just forget I said anything.Enjoy your mediocre pizza

[LongLiveYorke 38]

you should come to California where 65% of the voters can be overturned by one judge three or four times and see if you still feel the same way.Of course you probably liked their rulings so maybe you should come here.In fact, stay there...just forget I said anything.Enjoy your mediocre pizza

Never!! Don't even joke about that!

[Balloon guy 158]

Never!! Don't even joke about that!

Sorry.I didn't mean it.

[CaneBrain 95]

you should come to California where 65% of the voters can be overturned by one judge three or four times and see if you still feel the same way.

You say this like there is something wrong with it. The #1 function of the judiciary, imo, is to stop the general populace from legislating prejudice, discrimination, or anything else that is unconstitutional.I am sure if 65% of voters in DC wanted a handgun ban and the judiciary overruled them you would be extremely outraged.

[Balloon guy 158]

You say this like there is something wrong with it. The #1 function of the judiciary, imo, is to stop the general populace from legislating prejudice, discrimination, or anything else that is unconstitutional.I am sure if 65% of voters in DC wanted a handgun ban and the judiciary overruled them you would be extremely outraged.

You are in the minority...which might explain why you are so supportive of the rights of minorities...hmmmm. I guess that makes sense.