Universal Health Care...

[Balloon guy 158]

I have never heard a GOPer say catastrophic care for all. If you direct me to who said that when, I would love to see it. Because that has always been my main problem with the GOP on healthcare....they dont seem remotely interested in covering everyone.lancing genital warts. priceless.

Henry had some good things to say, but why would I spend money on insurance that handles expensive catastrophic care if the government will underwrite it for me?I would switch my current catastrophic care to a mild, up to $10,000 maximum coverage care, save a bundle and let the government take care of the big bills. Where would the help be really then?It would be a help rich people keep more of their money bill if a republican proposed it.

[Sal Paradise 57]

I have never heard a GOPer say catastrophic care for all. If you direct me to who said that when, I would love to see it. Because that has always been my main problem with the GOP on healthcare....they dont seem remotely interested in covering everyone.lancing genital warts. priceless.

that's because their plan doesn't provide for catastrophic care for all. it makes it easier and cheaper to get the insurance you need, and helps to lower the health care costs that are causing so much of the problem, all by making the consumer more responsible for their health care, not less. the right wing doesn't believe in a nanny state that make sure everybody's happy and healthy. mainly because it can't exist with any semblance of efficiency, like h said.edit: I want to make clear that by my saying that this is the right's "plan," I just mean that these are the main ideas being put forth by the right wing party, namely the republicans. I haven't actually seen anything written up and submitted formally. haven't gone back and read henry's link yet though. gonna do that now.

[Jeepster80125 0]

to be fair, MK hated talking politics in here, especially once this last election heated up and rarely did, and now, we rarely see him even in the sick thread, so he's not dodging anyone, he just has bigger fish to fry then to beat his head against a concrete wall.

I'm sure you guys put up with and even enjoy his arrogance, but he has no business telling everyone they're idiots when it's plainly obvious that he's just so completely clueless about healthcare reform and most related subjects. Since we're being fair.No one asked him to participate in a discussion, or take sides in a debate. He came into the thread name calling, then refused to defend his position despite many repeated requests to do so. Joey asked specifically for some follow up, curious if there was something mk knew that he didn't. I'm not sure if mk responded in pms or (likely) ignored that post as well.It just seems pretty sophomoric to come to a board like this and tell most of the participants that they're idiots without defending what he (mk) said. No one is arguing that there isn't noise here. But nearly every time he talks shit, some well respected, smart poster has engaged and requested an explanation, which mk has apparently totally ignored.Pot, kettle and all that I guess.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

It's no wonder the term "Jeepstered" came to pass.good day

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

to be fair, I didn't know MK came in and dropped a link in this discussionWhile I agree with what he wrote after, I will say that if you don't want to defend a position, keep that position to yourself, which I'm sure he will now do.

[hblask 1]

I was quite optimistic when MK came in here defending ObamaCare. Nationwide, over 30% support it or some form of it, up to 50% depending on the specific question. It would be hard to believe that *nobody* on this forum can support it. I am actually very curious to see someone say "I think it should pass because....". Nobody has stepped up to do that. The politicians defend it, but only in vague class-warfare terms. I'd like to see a specific, detailed analysis of it that says why it would be good for America. Saying "it brings healthcare to all" isn't a defense though. How does it do it? How will it reach the estimated 11 million people who are already eligible for government funded care but can't be bothered to sign up? How will the government control costs, given the long history of cost overruns in government programs?Why won't anyone defend this bill?

[Balloon guy 158]

Why won't anyone defend this bill?

Maybe I will...Just till someone comes along

[vbnautilus 48]

Why won't anyone defend this bill?

I don't have time to read it. But judging from the way these things normally go when I do get a chance to read them, I'm sure it sucks, but also probably isn't nearly as bad as you make it seem.

[Balloon guy 158]

I don't have time to read it. But judging from the way these things normally go when I do get a chance to read them, I'm sure it sucks, but also probably isn't nearly as bad as you make it seem.

Well that's just great, before we even give it a chance we are dooming it to failure.It's no wonder that nothing can get done in Washington that is positive change we can believe in.

[Balloon guy 158]

Why Universal Health Care is RIGHT;1st: We are a rich country, we should be giving our citizens the basic right to get treated if they are sick. If we can afford $2 BILLION planes we will probably never use, why should we begrudge a homeless man to get a bottle of cough syrup for those cold December nights we sleeps in the cold.2nd: Paying a little more in taxes so that all citizens are covered with health care is really no different than what we have now. Now we have individuals pay for their own health care, either directly or through their reduced pay from their employer. All we are really doing is switching the way the SAME MONEY is being moved, and we are cutting out the insurance companies that HAVE to make a profit, and therefore hike up the costs of health care for everyone. Cut out that profit motivated middle man and the costs would go down.3rd: We already live in a country that makes demands on private industry that removes true market forces, for example; the refuge collection business, the electric company, and the gas company. Each of these industries have government regulations deep inside their payment schedules and ability to discontinue service to PROTECT the citizens from being exempted from these crucial services to our well being, why should health care be different?4th: Hospitals have a monopoly on immediate care treatment, if you get injured and you have to be treated right now, the hospital is the only place to get that ( 95% of the time ). We don't like monopolies in this country because it reduces the quality and increases the cost...and guess what, that's exactly what is happening with health care.5th: Why should the health care industry be allowed to make unrestricted profits on our sufferings? A pharmaceutical company can invent a pill, charge a super inflated price, and then hold those prices for well beyond the time to recoup losses and then make Billions. A doctor can go to school, pay $250K, and pay that bill off in 2-3 years, yet he continues to charge prices that make him super rich, because people HAVE to see him because they are dying. Insurance companies have so interwoven themselves into the payment options that it is they who make it unaffordable to pay for your own health care.6th: Because our president, elected by a majority, is asking us to trust him.

[Balloon guy 158]

Hmmm.. I throw down the gauntlet and you all run scared?Maybe the right is a bunch of whiny babies...

[LongLiveYorke 38]

1st: We are a rich country, we should be giving our citizens the basic right to get treated if they are sick. If we can afford $2 BILLION planes we will probably never use, why should we begrudge a homeless man to get a bottle of cough syrup for those cold December nights we sleeps in the cold.

Rubbish. We didn't become the richest country in the world by giving things away for free. We became this way through the free market. The more Democrats try to clog the free market with their hand out programs, the more we'll slide. If a homeless person wants cough syrup, he should get a job and pay for it. He'll help the economy by doing a service for his employers and by giving money to the cough syrup providers. It's win, win win.

2nd: Paying a little more in taxes so that all citizens are covered with health care is really no different than what we have now. Now we have individuals pay for their own health care, either directly or through their reduced pay from their employer. All we are really doing is switching the way the SAME MONEY is being moved, and we are cutting out the insurance companies that HAVE to make a profit, and therefore hike up the costs of health care for everyone. Cut out that profit motivated middle man and the costs would go down.

As if the government weren't a middle man. As if bureaucracy won't muddle things up even more and drive prices further out of reach. And, while they're making things more expensive, they'll also be dictating what types of treatments that you'll be able to use. Government doesn't fund treatment A for some reason? Too bad, private insurance is out of business now, so you can't find someone that does. Time to pay out of poket, or simply go with treatment B. What, your doctor doesn't recommend treatment B? But the GOVERNMENT does! It MUST be better, right!

3rd: We already live in a country that makes demands on private industry that removes true market forces, for example; the refuge collection business, the electric company, and the gas company. Each of these industries have government regulations deep inside their payment schedules and ability to discontinue service to PROTECT the citizens from being exempted from these crucial services to our well being, why should health care be different?

Because health care is much bigger and more complicated. It's not just running gas through a pipe. It's a massive network of doctors, insurers, patients drug companies, pills, needles, surgeons, etc. And now, we want to mix government programs into that whole mess. Do you think that's going to make things simpler?I mean, you can't just say to a doctor, "Make people better," like you can say to ConEd, "keep electricity flowing." The doctor will then ask, "how?" Do we want the government supplying the checklist as to how he should, "make people better?" Wouldn't it be better if doctors could just decide things for themselves and not have to call Uncle Sam every time he writes a prescription.

4th: Hospitals have a monopoly on immediate care treatment, if you get injured and you have to be treated right now, the hospital is the only place to get that ( 95% of the time ). We don't like monopolies in this country because it reduces the quality and increases the cost...and guess what, that's exactly what is happening with health care.

There are many, many hospitals and clinics out there. No one hospital has a monopoly. Don't like how you're treated at hospital A, then move to hospital B. Don't like the surgery record of team C, then demand team D does your operation.(okay, this one is quite difficult to do without appearing completely nonsensical...)

5th: Why should the health care industry be allowed to make unrestricted profits on our sufferings? A pharmaceutical company can invent a pill, charge a super inflated price, and then hold those prices for well beyond the time to recoup losses and then make Billions. A doctor can go to school, pay $250K, and pay that bill off in 2-3 years, yet he continues to charge prices that make him super rich, because people HAVE to see him because they are dying. Insurance companies have so interwoven themselves into the payment options that it is they who make it unaffordable to pay for your own health care.

It's capitalism. Like it or move out. Do you know who didn't like capitalism. Hitler! No, I mean, Stalin! Yeah, that's the guy. And look what happened to Russia! Or, are you one of those people who just thinks that communism failed because it wasn't implemented correctly?

6th: Because our president, elected by a majority, is asking us to trust him.

Where's that birth certificate again?

[Balloon guy 158]

Rubbish. We didn't become the richest country in the world by giving things away for free. We became this way through the free market. The more Democrats try to clog the free market with their hand out programs, the more we'll slide. If a homeless person wants cough syrup, he should get a job and pay for it. He'll help the economy by doing a service for his employers and by giving money to the cough syrup providers. It's win, win win.

There are more things in life than money, but I wouldn't expect a shallow capitalist to understand them. why don't you take a break from your golf buddies kissing each other's asses with 100 dollar bills and realize that the best things in life are free

As if the government weren't a middle man. As if bureaucracy won't muddle things up even more and drive prices further out of reach. And, while they're making things more expensive, they'll also be dictating what types of treatments that you'll be able to use. Government doesn't fund treatment A for some reason? Too bad, private insurance is out of business now, so you can't find someone that does. Time to pay out of poket, or simply go with treatment B. What, your doctor doesn't recommend treatment B? But the GOVERNMENT does! It MUST be better, right!

Well they sure come up with a lot of options when they have to kill someone, or invade a country based on faulty intel...I guess they ARE capable of a myriad of options when it suits them.Or is it a plethora of options? I got to think about that.

Because health care is much bigger and more complicated. It's not just running gas through a pipe. It's a massive network of doctors, insurers, patients drug companies, pills, needles, surgeons, etc. And now, we want to mix government programs into that whole mess. Do you think that's going to make things simpler?I mean, you can't just say to a doctor, "Make people better," like you can say to ConEd, "keep electricity flowing." The doctor will then ask, "how?" Do we want the government supplying the checklist as to how he should, "make people better?" Wouldn't it be better if doctors could just decide things for themselves and not have to call Uncle Sam every time he writes a prescription.

Yea, we've let them do that so far and what a wonderful job they've done of it.

There are many, many hospitals and clinics out there. No one hospital has a monopoly. Don't like how you're treated at hospital A, then move to hospital B. Don't like the surgery record of team C, then demand team D does your operation.

There's nothing I like better than comparison shopping while my femur is snapped and sticking out from my multiple contusion laced thigh.

(okay, this one is quite difficult to do without appearing completely nonsensical...)

( Not as easy as we make it look is it? )

It's capitalism. Like it or move out. Do you know who didn't like capitalism. Hitler! No, I mean, Stalin! Yeah, that's the guy. And look what happened to Russia! Or, are you one of those people who just thinks that communism failed because it wasn't implemented correctly?

All I know is that in Cuba..they all have health care...and cigars, GOOD CIGARS

Where's that birth certificate again?

Probably hiding with Bush's discharge papers from the National Guard!!!!

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I saw what you did there in that one spot, BG.

[Balloon guy 158]

I saw what you did there in that one spot, BG.

It was for you.Wait till I pull the 1,200 year old female reference out on vb..it's going to be good

[LincolnK 1]

the only thing i can comprehend from all this is that BG thinks we should all be supplied with cuban cigars for free. i'm pretty sure my grandpa has been fueled solely by scotch and cigars for the last decade so i'm inclined to agree with him.

[Balloon guy 158]

the only thing i can comprehend from all this is that BG thinks we should all be supplied with cuban cigars for free. i'm pretty sure my grandpa has been fueled solely by scotch and cigars for the last decade so i'm inclined to agree with him.

If the democrats EVER instituted a free Cuban cigar policy you would see me drop the republican party faster than Colin Powell

[Jeepster80125 0]

This new legislation is

[Avaron 0]

lol barackaments, if anything.

[El Guapo 8]

It was for you.Wait till I pull the 1,200 year old female reference out on vb..it's going to be good

I thought it was for me.

[vbnautilus 48]

It was for you.Wait till I pull the 1,200 year old female reference out on vb..it's going to be good

Dammit, he's getting better at hiding this stuff. I blame JoeyJoJo.but I am even better

[Balloon guy 158]

I thought it was for me.

It was for me.Wow, pretending to be a leftist allows me to lie with complete abandonment..I could get used to this

[85suited 0]

Top Obama advisor David Axelrod on Sunday confirmed what pro-life advocates already suspected would happen. He said President Barack Obama will work with congressional Democrats to remove the abortion funding ban the House approved in its version of the government-run health care bill.Axelrod says that, because the Stupak amendment allegedly goes beyond the status quo under the Hyde amendment (which bans abortion funding under Medicaid), Obama will make sure the amendment is yanked during the conference committee.That’s the part of the legislative process that will occur if and when the Senate approves its own health care bill, which will likely start debate with abortion funding.

[85suited 0]

http://www.atr.org/reid-obama-health-billb...ise-taxes-a4232

Many people have heard that the Reid-Obama government healthcare bill will raise taxes. What you might not realize is that many of the tax hikes raise taxes on the health insurance you already have today—endangering the health security of you and your family. Here’s how:Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans (Page 1979/Sec. 9001/$149.1 bil): Starting in 2013, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($8500 single/$23,000 family). Higher threshold ($9850 single/$26,000 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed. From 2013-2015, the 17 highest-cost states are 120% of this level. Employer Reporting of Health Insurance Costs on W-2 (Page 1996/Sec. 9002/Min$): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 1997/Sec. 9003/$5 bil): No longer allowable to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement arrangement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike (Page 1998/Sec. 9004/$1.3 bil): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.FSA Cap (“Special Needs Children Tax”) (Page 1999/Sec. 9005/$14.6 bil): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Will most hurt families of special-needs children, who tend to use outsized FSA deferrals.Tax on Innovator Medicine Companies (“Miracle Cures Tax”) (Page 2010/Sec. 9008/$22.2 bil): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.Tax on Medical Devices Like Prosthetic Limbs, Wheelchairs, and Pacemakers (Page 2020/Sec. 9009/$19.3 bil): $2 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to shares of sales made that year. Exempts items retailing for <$100.Tax on Health Insurance Premiums (Page 2026/Sec. 9010/$60.4 bil): $6.7 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year.Eliminate tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (“Retiree Rx Tax”) (Page 2034/Sec. 9012/$5.4 bil). Will make employer-provided Rx coverage for retirees less available.Raise “Haircut” for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI (Page 2034/Sec. 9013/$15.2 bil): Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Will make it more difficult for working families to deduct medical expenses on their tax return.Tax on Cosmetic Medical Procedures (“Botox Tax”) (Page 2045/Sec. 9017/$5.8 bil): New 5% excise tax on elective cosmetic surgery to be paid by the surgery patient

[Jeepster80125 0]

Wow. I wish someone could tell me how that trash can save people money. Restricting use of health savings accounts and the like? That's ridiculous. That's the exact opposite of what we need to control costs and access.