The Official Obama Scorecard Thread

[Balloon guy 158]

I for one am all for strip mining the lead out of Canada, sending it via container ship to Korea where it is turned into batteries, then shipped to Japan to be installed in a car on it's way to be shipped back across the Pacific to America in order to make liberals think they are helping the environment.I just don't think you are going to use Nuke power to recharge those batteries anytime soon.but at least we are finally going to be able to rape the ocean floor to get enough petroleum to power the cargo containers to deliver the raw lead to Korea, then ship the cars back to the USA.so that's a plus for Obama

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

LLY, i think you're missing out on the "outrage" factor. A huge contribution to Obama's election 08 was pure, unadulterated hatred for GWB by a desire for everything that wasn't him, no matter what. Add in that you had a republican who fiscal conservatives weren't really a fan of running in opposition, and I think a box of dead rats with the word "Change" written on it could have beaten Mccain. I think the outrage factor has shifted extremely quickly the other way. The conservative base that was relatively apathetic in 2008 has gotten extremely active. Obama can't run on a platform of ambiguous change anymore. It's been a year and a half and he's essentially done one thing, that one thing pissed off a LOT of people, genuinely pleased very few who know what was passed, and was done in a way that he himself said was a bad idea (mandates, tiny majorities, lack of transparency).

[Jeepster80125 0]

LLY, i think you're missing out on the "outrage" factor. A huge contribution to Obama's election 08 was pure, unadulterated hatred for GWB by a desire for everything that wasn't him, no matter what. Add in that you had a republican who fiscal conservatives weren't really a fan of running in opposition, and I think a box of dead rats with the word "Change" written on it could have beaten Mccain. I think the outrage factor has shifted extremely quickly the other way. The conservative base that was relatively apathetic in 2008 has gotten extremely active. Obama can't run on a platform of ambiguous change anymore. It's been a year and a half and he's essentially done one thing, that one thing pissed off a LOT of people, genuinely pleased very few who know what was passed, and was done in a way that he himself said was a bad idea (mandates, tiny majorities, lack of transparency).

With all due respect to liberals like LLY and cane, those assholes who crafted this bill know it will cause the failure of private insurance carriers. This legislation is just one more step to a single payer national healthcare system. So I doubt that you hear any libs apologizing for how this was passed. Because we know it's much harder to remove entitlement programs, passing it could have profound effects. This is exactly what they want. imo obv.

[CaneBrain 95]

LLY, i think you're missing out on the "outrage" factor. A huge contribution to Obama's election 08 was pure, unadulterated hatred for GWB by a desire for everything that wasn't him, no matter what. Add in that you had a republican who fiscal conservatives weren't really a fan of running in opposition, and I think a box of dead rats with the word "Change" written on it could have beaten Mccain. I think the outrage factor has shifted extremely quickly the other way. The conservative base that was relatively apathetic in 2008 has gotten extremely active. Obama can't run on a platform of ambiguous change anymore. It's been a year and a half and he's essentially done one thing, that one thing pissed off a LOT of people, genuinely pleased very few who know what was passed, and was done in a way that he himself said was a bad idea (mandates, tiny majorities, lack of transparency).

Oh, NC, you so overestimate the attention span of the American people. Sure, the Dems are going to lose seats in November but that was inevitable anyway. Do you really think this outrage is going to carry over until November 2012? Who knows what cool shows will be on TV by then?!?!?!Plus, Bill Maher made an excellent point on his last show. Americans love to be on the winning team. Healthcare reform won. In 1994, the Dems tried to pass health care reform and lost so everyone was pissed. This time they tried to pass it and succeeded so only half the country is pissed (give or take). I think just by virtue of it passing it will become more popular (even though it's a bad bill).Fwiw, the most impressive thing about Barack the Campaigner was beating Hilary not beating McCain/Clownshoes. LLY is right when he says you underestimate his ability to win an election at your own peril.

[dapokerbum 0]

Oh, NC, you so overestimate the attention span of the American people. Sure, the Dems are going to lose seats in November but that was inevitable anyway. Do you really think this outrage is going to carry over until November 2012? Who knows what cool shows will be on TV by then?!?!?!Plus, Bill Maher made an excellent point on his last show. Americans love to be on the winning team. Healthcare reform won. In 1994, the Dems tried to pass health care reform and lost so everyone was pissed. This time they tried to pass it and succeeded so only half the country is pissed (give or take). I think just by virtue of it passing it will become more popular (even though it's a bad bill).Fwiw, the most impressive thing about Barack the Campaigner was beating Hilary not beating McCain/Clownshoes. LLY is right when he says you underestimate his ability to win an election at your the country's own peril.

FYP?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

With all due respect to liberals like LLY and cane, those assholes who crafted this bill know it will cause the failure of private insurance carriers. This legislation is just one more step to a single payer national healthcare system. So I doubt that you hear any libs apologizing for how this was passed. Because we know it's much harder to remove entitlement programs, passing it could have profound effects. This is exactly what they want. imo obv.

I don't think it will be the end of private insurance at all. It forces people to buy private insurance, and subsidizes those who can't afford it. The majority of those who are going to buy insurance because of this bill (as in, those who don't have it now) will be young and healthy, which is a dream for the insurance companies. Moreover, it will expand medicare coverage which insurance companies also really like, because it means that the expensive people will be covered by the government.It does all those things in exchange for forcing insurance companies to actually pay for healthcare when necessary.

[CaneBrain 95]

FYP?

depends on the alternative, imo.

[dapokerbum 0]

I don't think it will be the end of private insurance at all. It forces people to buy private insurance, and subsidizes those who can't afford it. The majority of those who are going to buy insurance because of this bill (as in, those who don't have it now) will be young and healthy, which is a dream for the insurance companies. Moreover, it will expand medicare coverage which insurance companies also really like, because it means that the expensive people will be covered by the government.It does all those things in exchange for forcing insurance companies to actually pay for healthcare when necessary.

It also makes insurance companies unable to disqualify an application for insurance based on pre-existing conditions ... which of course the only way to pay for that is to make the younger generation pay for health insurance that they may not need but that the governemnt decided they have to get.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

I don't think it will be the end of private insurance at all. It forces people to buy private insurance, and subsidizes those who can't afford it. The majority of those who are going to buy insurance because of this bill (as in, those who don't have it now) will be young and healthy, which is a dream for the insurance companies. Moreover, it will expand medicare coverage which insurance companies also really like, because it means that the expensive people will be covered by the government.It does all those things in exchange for forcing insurance companies to actually pay for healthcare when necessary.

I just don't think that the addition of young, healthy, low risk people can possibly offset the additional burden of accepting unprofitable pre-existing conditioned people and holding premiums relatively steady while forcing up reimbursement rates. Insurance companies right now are required in most states to maintain a 65% payout ratio. At that ratio, they see roughly 2-3% profit margins. The bill changes that arbirarily to 85%. The only way to make up the difference is to raise premiums, which will be extremely difficult with the price controls that are also imposed in the bill.

[dapokerbum 0]

depends on the alternative, imo.

Okay I agree on this ... damn you lawyer types and your logic.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I just don't think that the addition of young, healthy, low risk people can possibly offset the additional burden of accepting unprofitable pre-existing conditioned people and holding premiums relatively steady while forcing up reimbursement rates. Insurance companies right now are required in most states to maintain a 65% payout ratio. At that ratio, they see roughly 2-3% profit margins. The bill changes that arbirarily to 85%. The only way to make up the difference is to raise premiums, which will be extremely difficult with the price controls that are also imposed in the bill.

I mean, I'd be lying if I said that I did the math, so I can only describe thing superficially. I'm assuming that someone has.... right?

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I mean, I'd be lying if I said that I did the math, so I can only describe thing superficially. I'm assuming that someone has.... right?

You mean besides NC?

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

I've yet to see a combined analysis of it, but that would presently be quite difficult because the 65% number i quoted is basically an industry average. These ratios were previously set at the state level, so I assume it's hard to do anything other than a state by state breakdown, which would be brutal with 50 different sets of insurance laws. To answer your question though, no, I don't think anyone writing the bill did that math any more than the senators who passed it actually read all 2,000 pages of it. Thinking in accounting terms, it seems like an impossible hurdle to profitability. Think of how high you'd have to raise rates to overcome a 20% instant decrease in contribution margin when every dollar you bring in you only get to keep 15% of. The answer is higher than you'd possibly be able to raise rates and still have customers, if the government panels even let you raise them close to that high.

[vbnautilus 48]

LLY, i think you're missing out on the "outrage" factor. A huge contribution to Obama's election 08 was pure, unadulterated hatred for GWB by a desire for everything that wasn't him, no matter what. Add in that you had a republican who fiscal conservatives weren't really a fan of running in opposition, and I think a box of dead rats with the word "Change" written on it could have beaten Mccain. I think the outrage factor has shifted extremely quickly the other way. The conservative base that was relatively apathetic in 2008 has gotten extremely active. Obama can't run on a platform of ambiguous change anymore. It's been a year and a half and he's essentially done one thing, that one thing pissed off a LOT of people, genuinely pleased very few who know what was passed, and was done in a way that he himself said was a bad idea (mandates, tiny majorities, lack of transparency).

And you overestimate the outrage because you are a part of it. Also, outrage alone isn't enough -- it wasn't enough to get Bush out of office in 2004. Obama only won by channeling the outrage into a well-organized campaign with a coherent idea behind it that at least seemed to be for something. In order to have a chance at winning the republicans would have to find out what they are actually for and sell that instead of just being against and being angry. I don't see them being able to do that enough to overcome the power of incumbency.

[strategy 4]

Which of these do you see running your Toyota in 2050?

you should really look at tesla motors. their next gen is supposedly going to be sub-$50k. who cares about the environmental factor? those cars are bad ass.

[hblask 1]

He's going to be a two term president. He'd be a two term President if the election were held next week. After a very ugly battle over a controversial issue, his popularity fell to, what, a bit below 50%. What is Romney's national popularity? Or Palin? Or any other specific Republican?Give Obama a few months to campaign, and he adds 10% to his popularity. It would be a very grave mistake for Republicans to underestimate Obama's 2012 campaign. Republicans are going to need to put up the fights of their lives if they want to compete.

The latest polls show Obama behind "generic Republican". Of course, there's no such thing, but the right candidate would beat Obama right now. The Republicans have no chance of nominating the right candidate. If you doubt that, remember Romney is the frontrunner right now.Obama will almost certainly be a two-term president.

[hblask 1]

By that I meant "Make stricter lightbulb energy efficiency rules," meaning that new lightbulbs that are sold in the country must use less power.

If you are talking about those compact florescent bulbs, I am totally opposed. Those things suck so bad. First of all, they don't fit in any light fixture, only in bare sockets. Second, the light from them is just horrible, it gives me headaches within minutes. Third, not only don't they fit in many light fixtures, they will start a fire in a fairly large subset of enclosed fixtures that they do fit into.But worst of all, they contain hazardous materials. Literally hazardous materials. You are not supposed to throw them in the garbage, they require special handling. And if you break one, you can't just clean it up or you will get poisoned.But hey, we'll save like six barrels of oil nationwide per year.Minnesota is trying to pass a law that says incandescent bulb built in MN can be used in MN, even after the federal law goes into effect. I'm hoping it will pass, but it doesn't look promising.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

If you are talking about those compact florescent bulbs, I am totally opposed. Those things suck so bad. First of all, they don't fit in any light fixture, only in bare sockets. Second, the light from them is just horrible, it gives me headaches within minutes. Third, not only don't they fit in many light fixtures, they will start a fire in a fairly large subset of enclosed fixtures that they do fit into.But worst of all, they contain hazardous materials. Literally hazardous materials. You are not supposed to throw them in the garbage, they require special handling. And if you break one, you can't just clean it up or you will get poisoned.But hey, we'll save like six barrels of oil nationwide per year.Minnesota is trying to pass a law that says incandescent bulb built in MN can be used in MN, even after the federal law goes into effect. I'm hoping it will pass, but it doesn't look promising.

I support the idea in theory, but I can't vouch for any realistic execution of the idea (which is why I'm a Democrat. Hi Yoooo!)

[Balloon guy 158]

you should really look at tesla motors. their next gen is supposedly going to be sub-$50k. who cares about the environmental factor? those cars are bad ass.

I'm not THAT broke

[akoff 0]

Plus, Bill Maher made an excellent point on his last show. Bill Maher is an idiotLLY is right when he says you underestimate his ability to win an election at your own peril.

LLY is spot on with this one. Never underestimate how much peoples want to believe they will; be given anything they are promised. He will have a 4 yr track record thought so it may hurt him.

And you overestimate the outrage because you are a part of it.

Lets see you are college prof from California...yea that is great to get a grasp of the outrage.

Obama will almost certainly be a two-term president.

Sadly I think you are correct. the key is having control of at least one side of congress. I think Reps may well have two by '12. When people have to start paying the bills it will change. Here is a long term question will the Rep candidate in '16 win by the largest landside ever? That is quite possible.

[vbnautilus 48]

Lets see you are college prof from California...yea that is great to get a grasp of the outrage.

Yeah if I didn't hang out in here I probably wouldn't know about said outrage. That was kind of my point, that we are all biased by our surroundings.

[Jeepster80125 0]

I don't think it will be the end of private insurance at all. It forces people to buy private insurance, and subsidizes those who can't afford it. The majority of those who are going to buy insurance because of this bill (as in, those who don't have it now) will be young and healthy, which is a dream for the insurance companies. Moreover, it will expand medicare coverage which insurance companies also really like, because it means that the expensive people will be covered by the government.It does all those things in exchange for forcing insurance companies to actually pay for healthcare when necessary.

Please understand this.Guarantee issue (no declines for poor health) is a fine system, as long as EVERYONE signs up. There absolutely has to be a large number of people who are healthy, who are subsidizing those with high utilization.The ONLY way for a system like this to work is with an individual mandate, requiring everyone to purchase. Here is the problem. If the penalty for non-compliance with this program is $700 or $1500 or whatever, the people who can afford that are going to pay the penalty. There is a reason they don't have coverage now, there's a reason they won't get coverage and pay the penalty later. I am not talking about those who can't afford coverage here.Now, consider this. Let's say the penalty was something absurd, $100,000. How many people would pay and not enroll? No one. Now, take the current penalty. Anything less than 100% compliance with an individual mandate will ruin guarantee issue, which will ruin private insurance. Whether you are for or against private insurance, this is the next step.What do you disagree with here?

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Yeah if I didn't hang out in here I probably wouldn't know about said outrage. That was kind of my point, that we are all biased by our surroundings.

april fools? massachusetts elected a republican to fill ted kennedy's seat.massachusetts.

[vbnautilus 48]

april fools? massachusetts elected a republican to fill ted kennedy's seat.massachusetts.

yeah, I wouldn't know about that if I didn't hang out in here.

[El Guapo 8]

april fools? massachusetts elected a republican to fill ted kennedy's seat.massachusetts.

This post reminded me of the Dave Chappelle skit where he was a witness to all the black celebrities:Michael Jackson made Thriller.Thriller.