The Official Obama Scorecard Thread

[akoff 0]

Not raising taxes doesn't add to the deficit. To much spending does.

The government accountability office disagrees with you.

reread both of these and give them just a little thought....a little more....there ya go.oh and the name government accountability kind of speaks for itself!

[SAM_Hard8 50]

The government accountability office disagrees with you.

Simple fact: not raising taxes is not adding to the deficit its not lowering the deficit, big difference.Second the GAO by law is not allowed to take peoples change of behavior due to tax increases into account when scoring. This makes their estimates almost completely useless.

[strategy 4]

Why grow when you can maintain? Why hire when you have many people dying for some extra OT, why go over 50 employees when there are penalties for doing so, why give raises when there are people waiting in line for a job…the list goes on. I have absorbed two different companies in the 3 quarter. Both companies were owed by ex-employees of mine. Both had been in business for over 5 years. One guy lost his house through attempting to support his failing company. The other guy was smart enough to bail before putting his personal money back into the business. If you are going to ask people to take real risk and create real jobs you have to allow them to real successful. The Democrats don’t seem to understand this.

the thing is, the symptoms you're listing here seem pretty standard for a severe recession. I can promise you that it all goes down very nearly identically even if mccain and the republicans had found some miraculous victory two years ago. I could even concede (though I never would) a few hundred thousand more jobs created under the hypothetical republicans and we'd still be completely fucked right now.found out yesterday that I'm not getting an in-person interview for this unspectacular job. they were offering $28.8k and listed a college degree as a requirement. I mean, those specs wouldn't have yielded any applicants in 2006/2007. blows the mind.

[Balloon guy 158]

So what we have learned is that when Obama does what he and the democrats want...it's bad. ( Obama Care, Stimulus pay offs, ignoring the Oil spill )When he follows Bush's plans..it's good. ( Tax cuts, keeping Gitmo open, increasing troops levels in Afghan, following the Bush withdrawal schedule in Iraq )So why didn't we just re-elect Bush?

[akoff 0]

the thing is, the symptoms you're listing here seem pretty standard for a severe recession. I can promise you that it all goes down very nearly identically even if mccain and the republicans had found some miraculous victory two years ago. I could even concede (though I never would) a few hundred thousand more jobs created under the hypothetical republicans and we'd still be completely ****ed right now.found out yesterday that I'm not getting an in-person interview for this unspectacular job. they were offering $28.8k and listed a college degree as a requirement. I mean, those specs wouldn't have yielded any applicants in 2006/2007. blows the mind.

I can agree with the bolded and a degree ain't what it used to be. you should consider balloons!! the difference is the size of the deficit, the healthcare being forced down our throats, the complete lack of concern how to pay for the health care, the attacks on the perceived rich rhetoric and taxes, the union payouts and the total lack of any organization. Other then those items and a few other things we would be in the same place. It would still suck but it wouldn’t take a couple generations to repair. Honestly how does anyone who supports these policies look at their young kids or grandchildren and feel right about it. Democrats in general and the progressive movement in particular has stolen wealth from at least two full generations in just 2 years…use an open mind and think about it. Every person in this country owes approx. 45k to balance the books….everyone!!! It is not sustainable and to defend it is just silly. Back to work I have to make enough money to be sure grandkids are as phucked as most others.

[brvheart 1,752]

Cutting the taxes for the lower and middle class will stimulate growth. Cutting the taxes of the wealthiest will not stimulate growth in the same proportion and will lead to a net loss of revenue (taxes on them are quite lucrative, tax cuts show little benefit).No growth will be lost by extending unemployment benefits. On the contrary, it will allow for growth since these people can afford to buy things and maintain some semblance of a life. I'm not sure why you think it will cause a loss of growth. Are you under the impression that a large fraction of the unemployed could get jobs if only they "tried"? Do you not realize how many people are unemployed and how dire the situation has become?

Economically speaking, this post is incorrect. For the record, I also, don't have a problem with unemployment benefits being extended, but it definitely won't cause growth. Also, it bears repeating that you are absolutely incorrect saying "cutting taxes on the wealthiest will not stimulate growth".

[Balloon guy 158]

Economically speaking, this post is completely incorrect. For the record, I also, don't have a problem with unemployment benefits being extended, but it definitely won't cause growth. Also, it bears repeating that you are absolutely incorrect saying "cutting taxes on the wealthiest will not stimulate growth".

Well, currently 50% of the tax payers pay less than 5% of all income tax, so we need to reduce that in order to make the economy feel the impact of such a huge deluge of cash hitting it all at once spread over the entire fiscal year...

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Economically speaking, this post is completely incorrect.

Which part? The fact that the wealthy are less likely to spend money saved through tax cuts and therefore tax cuts to the wealthy are a less efficient way to stimulate the economy? Or the fact that, in this economic climate, the negative effect of additional unemployment benefits on job growth is vastly outweighed by its stimulating effect?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

The job situation certainly isn’t good. One of the reasons and there are several is small business people, which are the job creators, are very uncomfortable. They don’t trust this administration, they have been targeted as one of the groups to be punished…true or untrue that perception is the way they feel. The talk of class warfare, higher taxes, the realization that they as small business owners already pay a disproportionate share of all cost and now are being told it isn’t near enough we are going to need more is not helping.

But there's almost no evidence to support the fact that the economic climate comes from a lack of confidence in the government, or a lack of trust of the administration, or class warfare. Do you want to know where the unemployment comes from. It comes from this:http://forecast-chart.com/graph-retail-sales.htmlUS National Retail and Food Services Sales IndexSee that dip in retail at around 2008. That came after this:This chart shows trillions of dollars in value disappearing nearly overnight. People lost a lot of money. Therefore, they bought less things. Therefore, business are hurt and don't hire new people. That's why people are unemployed. If you look at the retail line, it's increasing, but it's still way below where it would have been if there wasn't a housing crash in 2008. We're getting better, but we're still hurting.

We have one option, cut spending everywhere. National, state, local…balance the books asap and pay off the deficit. It doesn’t have to be done in one year but it has to happen asap. My opinion would be let the tax cuts expire for everyone and chop ALL government spending and let the chips fall where they fall. The private sector will pick up the slack way better then Washington or any state capital ever has.

And there's no reason to believe that the deficit is in any way relating to the rate of unemployment. The deficit is a long, long term issue. We're dealing with a very immediate, very short term issue: unemployment. Dramatically cutting government spending, as you suggest, would directly lead to people losing their jobs (cops, teachers, and other government jobs) and would result in many people losing their main source of income and benefits (unemployment, medicaid, etc). Do you really think that's what would be best for the unemployment level? Or, as your bolded suggests, is your philosophy to simply cut off government and see what the heck happens, because the real priority is making government "small," and not reducing unemployment?

[Balloon guy 158]

Which part? The fact that the wealthy are less likely to spend money saved through tax cuts and therefore tax cuts to the wealthy are a less efficient way to stimulate the economy? Or the fact that, in this economic climate, the negative effect of additional unemployment benefits on job growth is vastly outweighed by its stimulating effect?

Curios how they tracked this for your post to state as authoritative?Was it a scientific poll done with time machines to compare parallel universes? Universi?Or a voluntary call in survey done from a Moveon.org link?What stimulates more?$50 being spent by 100,000 people spread over the entire country?Or one guy spending $50 million on a new manufacturing plant in Wisconsin?

[akoff 0]

as your bolded suggests, is your philosophy to simply cut off government and see what the heck happens, because the real priority is making government "small," and not reducing unemployment?

i don't want to cut off government, i just want to reduce back to the levels of say 2002 or 1998 or 1991...you know back in the stone ages...where we were all lucky to survive without help...notcie i did include slick willie's time in office here. in between banging the staff and after he got his butt kicked in the midterms he was actually more center then i would prefer to admit. not by choice of course just because he doesn't really stand for anything.we would have money for more unemployment (i am not that against it) if we hadn't wasted a few hundred billion on the stimulus...my father told me long time ago. "it is ok to spend but you can spend a dollar once till its gone" more people in washington and in life in general should learn that lesson and we wouldn't have so many issues.

[strategy 4]

once we have actually got a real recovery, I'll consent to some austerity measures. note that predictions for when the jobs will come back have been moving further off on the horizon for over a year now. one of the "bright" points in the last jobs report was an efficiency reading that happened to be kinda high: employers squeezing more out of a small workforce. it was pretty high last january as well, touched off a bunch of speculation that we'd add maybe 1.5-2M jobs this year. we know how that turned out.the job market is the much, much bigger problem here.edit: oh yeah, compromise = $900B over 2 years

[CaneBrain 95]

reread both of these and give them just a little thought....a little more....there ya go.oh and the name government accountability kind of speaks for itself!

yeah I re-read them and concluded you have no idea what the GAO is, how it is constructed, or what it does. But hey you were able to say "government bad" some more. Well done.

[akoff 0]

yeah I re-read them and concluded you have no idea what the GAO is, how it is constructed, or what it does. But hey you were able to say "government bad" some more. Well done.

In this particular case I didn’t say or reference bad. The topic was over spending doesn’t lead to a deficit and government accountability. Both of these a reasonable person would find either out right wrong, stupid or just silly. Take your pick.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

This chart shows trillions of dollars in value disappearing nearly overnight. People lost a lot of money.

...and who lost the largest share? The same people who ALREADY pay a hugely disproportionate share of taxes. Continuing to ask these people to pay and pay and pay is not going to work. These people have lost huge amounts of their "wealth". I know as a "rich" person, I pay vastly more in taxes than the average family. I am childless by choice. I receive no direct benefits. I acknowledge that it isn't that simple - for example being in a good School District boosts my property values. However I am getting tired of EVERY benefit and EVERY tax break being targeted at those groups that are already receiving a disproportionate share of benefits and tax incentives/breaks/rebates. I just lost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of my net worth (on paper). Time to stop asking me for more money and start concentrating on how to EFFECTIVELY spend what I am giving.

[Balloon guy 158]

Top 20 liberal pick up lines: 20) Your Birkenstocks must stink, cause you've been nature-hiking through my mind all day. -- JCred 19) You had me at "Mao." -- ResistTyranny 18) We're both workers, of the world ......let's "Unite" -- TheGenuineDavid 17) Hey honey, wanna come back to my place and test my emissions? -- sarahbellumd 16) My pants need a bailout. can you help? -- sarahbellumd 15) I'd love to to get you in a see-through dress. I'm a firm believer in transparency. -- sarahbellumd 14) I'm a Women's Studies major, so if you would take off your clothes I'd appreciate it. -- politicsoffear 13) You are so hot. The science is settled. -- sarahk47 12) Darlin' you stole my heart the same way George Bush stole the election in 2000 -- johnhawkinsrwn 11) Ooo, baby...I'd love to warm your globes. -- sarahbellumd 10) You sure you're not Joy Behar? Cause I'm really digging the view. -- JCred 9) The caribou are rapidly disappearing. Mind if I look for them under your skirt? -- sarahbellumd 8) Mandate your coverage? I mandate you get uncovered. -- MKisStacked 7) Why don't you come back to my place and I'll show you my stimulus package. -- Mainstreetrad 6) I'm Pro-Choice, so you can choose to be on top or bottom. -- politicsoffear 5) Let's hop in my electric car and let the sparks fly. -- TheGenuineDavid 4) I saw you across the room, and thought, "I'd like to have him help me get my first abortion." -- ResistTyranny 3) You're so hot, you should be banned by the Kyoto Treaty. -- politicsoffear 2) Want to see my solo performance of the Vagina Monologues? -- Patrioticameric 1) My wife just doesn't understand me. She's the Secretary of State, and travels all the time. -- ResistTyranny

[akoff 0]

...and who lost the largest share? The same people who ALREADY pay a hugely disproportionate share of taxes. Continuing to ask these people to pay and pay and pay is not going to work. These people have lost huge amounts of their "wealth". I know as a "rich" person, I pay vastly more in taxes than the average family. I am childless by choice. I receive no direct benefits. I acknowledge that it isn't that simple - for example being in a good School District boosts my property values. However I am getting tired of EVERY benefit and EVERY tax break being targeted at those groups that are already receiving a disproportionate share of benefits and tax incentives/breaks/rebates. I just lost literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of my net worth (on paper). Time to stop asking me for more money and start concentrating on how to EFFECTIVELY spend what I am giving.

you are just a selfish bastard...you have more then need (according to democrats) and just because you are either lucky, smart, hard working or just fiscally responsible why would you think you should be able to keep more of your money. the fact that 45% of your income is taken for just for income tax (before all of the other sales, sin, use, priviledge gas etc taxes are removed) you don't have the right to bitch. there are needy kids out there who are getting at least 20 cents on the dollar invested in them from our schools, our government wastes more money in a year in overpayments and favors then we could begin to count and you have problem with that? next thing you know you will post that people should have to come to work to get paid...or better yet they might actually have to a citizen of our country to get to vote....who are you and why do hate the poor sooooo much.

[Balloon guy 158]

Top 10 Tea Party pick up lines Drill, baby, Drill -- snarkandboobs Baby, the moment I saw you, you tore down the Berlin Wall -- to my heart! -- johnhawkinsrwn YOU LIE on top of me. -- andylevy Want to hike the Appalachian trail? -- nrdavis Screw the UN inspectors, I'll go in right now -- SarahBurris I'd like to pre-emptively invade you if you know what I mean. -- politicsoffear If your left leg was July 4th and your right leg was Veteran's Day, can I visit you between the holidays? -- johnhawkinsrwn Watch out, baby! My hands are going rogue! -- jamesJJohnson Hey baby, if we don't go out tonight, the terrorists win. -- johnhawkinsrwn Is that a pistol in your pocket or...oh - it IS a pistol. -- RoseLizenberg

[strategy 4]

great few posts here, thanks guys

[Balloon guy 158]

great few posts here, thanks guys

I just cut and pasted, but you're welcome

[brvheart 1,752]

Which part? The fact that the wealthy are less likely to spend money saved through tax cuts and therefore tax cuts to the wealthy are a less efficient way to stimulate the economy? Or the fact that, in this economic climate, the negative effect of additional unemployment benefits on job growth is vastly outweighed by its stimulating effect?

Yes.

[timwakefield 68]

meh, edit

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Apparently no longer the leader of his own Party. Couldn't deliver the Tax deal. DREAM is dead too.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

Apparently no longer the leader of his own Party. Couldn't deliver the Tax deal. DREAM is dead too.

Tax deal will pass. Just posturing vote today to let liberals say they voted against it before they are forced to vote for it.

[Balloon guy 158]

Tax deal will pass. Just posturing vote today to let liberals say they voted against it before they are forced to vote for it.

Is John Kerry running for re-election already?