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The Official Obama Scorecard Thread


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Until Jeremiah Wright is discovered to actually be Obama, it merits no mention in this discussion.but I heard a lot about this guy bill ayers you might be interested in................
Well, any other candadate in the recent history of this country would have been held accountable by the media for staying in that guys congregation for 10 years. He would have hounded unmecifully out of the race. Hell, the media mentioned George Bush speaking once at Bob Jones University thousands of times. Implied Bush was antiCatholic and Racist because he spoke there. If I had a friend that spent the last 20 years going to KKK rally's I would assume that he believed in at least a little of what was said there. For you to pretend that it is unfair to believe that Barrack and Michelle Obama actually believed in a little of what JW had to say is something you can continue to do if you want, others certainly do. But come on, don't judge others because they see BO and MO attend this church for 20 years, get married there by JW, have JW baptise their Children, and then select him as a spiritual advisor, and actually think BO and MO just might be buying a little of what the good reverend is selling. You can ignore this but you certainly shouldn't be demonizing those that refuse to ignore what is directly in front of their face.
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President Obama ordered the cabinet to cut $100,000,000.00 ($100 million) from the $3,500,000,000,000.00 ($3.5 trillion) federal budget.   I'm so impressed by this sacrifice that I have decided to

there are many legitimate reasons to dislike obama. why dig your heels in on the one that has no direct evidence whatsoever and sets a dangerous precedent for political discourse? I'll shut up the very second you give me a quote from obama that shows hate for america.

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I expect that I'm anti-American if that includes being blindly rah rah for everything we've done and all that we've espoused and exported to the world. There is a great deal of American culture that is just plain bad for everybody. There is a great deal that I see that is wrong with America and the current American culture. I'd like to see that changed. If that makes me anti-American, so be it. And I don't think it would make me anti-American to speak about it to people from other nations either. They all have eyes, they can see it. How much of our current culture do you really like ZD? There is a great deal that I absolutely HATE. And probably there are many on here that will not agree with me either:1. Total overexposure of sex and celebrity in the media. I mean who is it that buys this stuff about Palin girl and her kid? Who is the audience that keeps Jerry Springer in business. If he didn't get ratings, he and his like would be gone. 2. The unhealthy eating habits that are promoted daily everywhere and that fact that we buy into them. The fact that they're even being marketed to kids. Tell me, is this just good corporate citizens making money or is it exploitation?3. the idea that people can be bankrupted by medical bills in this country is just plain wrong. I don't have the capacity to tell you what needs to be done about it but something does. I have a friend who was exposed to Agent Orange and they were bankrupted by her medical bills. They ended up living in a tent for one summer before they came to a church that actually offered them a roof over their heads. Now that's wrong. Nobody should be made homeless by medical bills. Nobody. 4. The constant inroads being made into the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution by federal, state and local governments. This is where I became pretty discontented with the Bush administration. It seemed like every other week there was something being slipped into regulation that extended the reach of the Feds into our private lives. 5. I hate the "have to have it now even if it puts us in debt" mentality that's taken over our country. It's not just the government, it's us! Somewhere along the line, we decided that saving up for something wasn't cool. We have allowed a selfish mentality to creep into our culture and that's what's caused us to be in the crisis we're in. And I totally blame the anti-regulatory atmosphere that has been slowly increasing over the past 30 years or so. Every time someone from either party expressed concern over some segment of our capitalist society, the free-marketers came out in force to fight it. Regardless of what H believes, we have to have some regulation of the market, if only to keep people from being scammed out of their life savings. Because no matter how much we like the idea of free markets, it is a system just like communism that depends on people doing the right thing. And they don't. If there's a loophole to exploit, somebody is going to come along and exploit it. A great deal of this economic tsunami could have been avoided if we had been willing to accept some regulation back when it could have prevented the housing meltdown. And now you all are crying because you don't like the consequence of that non-action. Anyway if the above makes me anti-American, then so be it. To me being an American also means that we are willing to criticize what's going wrong and try to make it right, not just be blindly rah rah pro-USA no matter what.

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Regardless of what H believes, we have to have some regulation of the market, if only to keep people from being scammed out of their life savings.
Sigh.... I thought we had reached an understanding on this point. :club:
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Sigh.... I thought we had reached an understanding on this point. :club:
And I thought we agreed that we needed some rule of law. And if somebody is getting hurt and there's no law against it then there should be a law against it. I'm pretty much of a live and let live type person so I'm basically on the Libertarian side of the line. But not to the exclusion of laws against those who manage to scam people legally by just sliding under the present law. That's why we don't just dissolve Congress. Because for as many laws as are made, there are people looking to exploit others within the letter of that law.
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And I thought we agreed that we needed some rule of law. And if somebody is getting hurt and there's no law against it then there should be a law against it. I'm pretty much of a live and let live type person so I'm basically on the Libertarian side of the line. But not to the exclusion of laws against those who manage to scam people legally by just sliding under the present law. That's why we don't just dissolve Congress. Because for as many laws as are made, there are people looking to exploit others within the letter of that law.
I don't disagree with this. Laws against force and fraud are reasonable. I doubt there are many instances anymore that are NOT already covered, and in those cases more laws are just stupidity. But certainly there are cases where a previous good law can be clarified. If done well, it can be beneficial. If done poorly, as in the mortgage meltdown, it causes a lot of harm.
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I expect that I'm anti-American if that includes being blindly rah rah for everything we've done and all that we've espoused and exported to the world. There is a great deal of American culture that is just plain bad for everybody. There is a great deal that I see that is wrong with America and the current American culture. I'd like to see that changed. If that makes me anti-American, so be it. And I don't think it would make me anti-American to speak about it to people from other nations either. They all have eyes, they can see it. How much of our current culture do you really like ZD? There is a great deal that I absolutely HATE. And probably there are many on here that will not agree with me either:1. Total overexposure of sex and celebrity in the media. I mean who is it that buys this stuff about Palin girl and her kid? Who is the audience that keeps Jerry Springer in business. If he didn't get ratings, he and his like would be gone. 2. The unhealthy eating habits that are promoted daily everywhere and that fact that we buy into them. The fact that they're even being marketed to kids. Tell me, is this just good corporate citizens making money or is it exploitation?3. the idea that people can be bankrupted by medical bills in this country is just plain wrong. I don't have the capacity to tell you what needs to be done about it but something does. I have a friend who was exposed to Agent Orange and they were bankrupted by her medical bills. They ended up living in a tent for one summer before they came to a church that actually offered them a roof over their heads. Now that's wrong. Nobody should be made homeless by medical bills. Nobody. 4. The constant inroads being made into the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution by federal, state and local governments. This is where I became pretty discontented with the Bush administration. It seemed like every other week there was something being slipped into regulation that extended the reach of the Feds into our private lives. 5. I hate the "have to have it now even if it puts us in debt" mentality that's taken over our country. It's not just the government, it's us! Somewhere along the line, we decided that saving up for something wasn't cool. We have allowed a selfish mentality to creep into our culture and that's what's caused us to be in the crisis we're in. And I totally blame the anti-regulatory atmosphere that has been slowly increasing over the past 30 years or so. Every time someone from either party expressed concern over some segment of our capitalist society, the free-marketers came out in force to fight it. Regardless of what H believes, we have to have some regulation of the market, if only to keep people from being scammed out of their life savings. Because no matter how much we like the idea of free markets, it is a system just like communism that depends on people doing the right thing. And they don't. If there's a loophole to exploit, somebody is going to come along and exploit it. A great deal of this economic tsunami could have been avoided if we had been willing to accept some regulation back when it could have prevented the housing meltdown. And now you all are crying because you don't like the consequence of that non-action. Anyway if the above makes me anti-American, then so be it. To me being an American also means that we are willing to criticize what's going wrong and try to make it right, not just be blindly rah rah pro-USA no matter what.
Why didn't your friend have health insurance? There is no excuse for people in America in this day and age to not carry health insurance. Zero. Somewhere along the way, I'd bet that your friend made a conscious decision to forgo health insurance to save money to pay other bills or for whatever reasons. Now that they've got medical issues and no insurance of course they're going to be bankrupted by a large claim. Your friend ignored all of the available programs like medicaid or state assistance to help pay for the insurance, and now you want us taxpayers to pick up her tab? Sorry, but lack of planning on your friends part doesn't constitute and emergency on my part. It's a tough lesson to learn but I don't really feel sorry for your friend. I can empathize that being sick sucks, but your friend is in the position they are in because of poor planning and decision making on their part, no one else.Explain to me why you think people shouldn't be responsible for their own health, why the government should step in and pay for everything. Please.If the government provided our health insurance, would it give them the right to tell us we can't smoke or drink or have high cholesterol? Where does it stop? If we agree to let the government step in and handle our healthcare, then they'd have a right to tell us to be healthier right? Are you okay with the government telling you what foods you can and can't eat? Just exactly how much intrusion are you okay with?
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/m..._cube_position1As long as you support Obama anything you do is OK.
yeah, there was no voter intimidation/discrimination against minorities in 2000 and 2004. At least, the Justice Dept. showed mild interest on this.http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1003-26.htmhttp://www.house.gov/corrinebrown/press108/pr040816b.htmhttp://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/07/voter-...ation-virginia/http://www.time.com/time/election2004/colu...,733077,00.htmland from this most recent electionThe 2008 presidential election was one of the most competitive elections in our history, which led to many instances of voter intimidation. For example:In October 2008, the ACLU of New Mexico and Project Vote filed a lawsuit charging a Republican New Mexico State Representative and a private investigator with voter intimidation and invasion of privacy. Newly-registered minority voters were declared in a press conference by the NM State Representative to have fraudulently voted in the state primary elections. A private investigator was later hired by a party official to go to the homes of these voters and interrogate them about their citizenship status.After a rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, supporters of Barack Obama went to a nearby early voting center, where they were heckled and harassed by a group of protesters as they went in to vote. Nearly all of the early voters were black, and nearly all of the protesters were white.In Virginia, students at Virginia Tech were told that if they registered to vote in Virginia, it could affect their scholarship or tax dependency status and would obligate them to change their car registration and driver’s license to their permanent address. Finally, a poll worker in Dearborn, Michigan was perceived to be intimidating Muslim Americans, of which Dearborn has a large concentration. Two Michigan precincts also reported the presence of police scanning the long lines for voters with outstanding warrants, with one person being arrested.These are just isolated incidents. I could google all day and fill this box with more. As well as a bunch of articles from the conservative side saying voter intimidation charges concerning the 2000 and 2004 elections are overblown.
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Ok, so you are fine with this kind of thing is long as it is in favor of your candadate. Fair enough.
I dont remember any conservatives taking this issue seriously over the last decade. Why should I now? Because three idiots acted like idiots in Philadelphia? My point is there is a much greater wealth of evidence that the conservatives intimidate minorities than there is that minorities intimidate conservative voters. So, it amuses me to see you put this forward when I am sure you ignored/dismissed the wide swath of alleged voter abuse in the past two elections.I dont condone either side doing it. But, for conservatives to whine about it, is hypocritical and silly.
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I dont remember any conservatives taking this issue seriously over the last decade. Why should I now? Because three idiots acted like idiots in Philadelphia? My point is there is a much greater wealth of evidence that the conservatives intimidate minorities than there is that minorities intimidate conservative voters. So, it amuses me to see you put this forward when I am sure you ignored/dismissed the wide swath of alleged voter abuse in the past two elections.I dont condone either side doing it. But, for conservatives to whine about it, is hypocritical and silly.
You have to be kidding me. The Bush justice dept spent the last 7 years testifying before congress for everything they did. There was a constant barrage of negative press. In the Case of AG Gonzales it was done rightly so IMO, he was corrupt, and of all the BS the press and the left try to lay on Bush, this is one place where it was justified.(this and Rumsfeld). For you to say that conservatives intimidate more than democrats is flat out false. Every major city in this country is have their elections run overwhelmingly by democrats. Major voter fraud is so common in St. Louis and Chicago that it isn't even fought by the republicans anymore, they allow for it before they even campaign. Anyhow the point I was making was not regarding the intimidation, it was the action of the justice dept. It just goes to show you that they will behave just as badly as Gonzales but do so more blatantly because the press will largely ignore it in their case. I do believe we are starting to see a pattern of this kind developing.
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Why didn't your friend have health insurance? There is no excuse for people in America in this day and age to not carry health insurance. Zero. Somewhere along the way, I'd bet that your friend made a conscious decision to forgo health insurance to save money to pay other bills or for whatever reasons. Now that they've got medical issues and no insurance of course they're going to be bankrupted by a large claim. Your friend ignored all of the available programs like medicaid or state assistance to help pay for the insurance, and now you want us taxpayers to pick up her tab? Sorry, but lack of planning on your friends part doesn't constitute and emergency on my part. It's a tough lesson to learn but I don't really feel sorry for your friend. I can empathize that being sick sucks, but your friend is in the position they are in because of poor planning and decision making on their part, no one else.Explain to me why you think people shouldn't be responsible for their own health, why the government should step in and pay for everything. Please.If the government provided our health insurance, would it give them the right to tell us we can't smoke or drink or have high cholesterol? Where does it stop? If we agree to let the government step in and handle our healthcare, then they'd have a right to tell us to be healthier right? Are you okay with the government telling you what foods you can and can't eat? Just exactly how much intrusion are you okay with?
Well there is where you're wrong. I don't think you know the consequences of Agent Orange exposure but it's lifelong. And yes she had health insurance both private and through the vets since her husband is an Army veteran. But she used up the lifetime benefit on her private insurance and since she had the pre-existing condition, most insurances wouldn't touch it at that time or the cost was exhorbitant. And I don't know if you know much about veteran's insurance coverage for spouses but it's a pittance. So don't judge before you know the facts.
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Well there is where you're wrong. I don't think you know the consequences of Agent Orange exposure but it's lifelong. And yes she had health insurance both private and through the vets since her husband is an Army veteran. But she used up the lifetime benefit on her private insurance and since she had the pre-existing condition, most insurances wouldn't touch it at that time or the cost was exhorbitant. And I don't know if you know much about veteran's insurance coverage for spouses but it's a pittance. So don't judge before you know the facts.
This is one of the models that Obama suggested for nationalizing health care.My brother was a vet, and had pins in his shoulder. The pins started coming out, making him unable to use his arm, and he couldn't work. They promised they'd fix it eventually, but it was a government run health care plan, so the wait was years. He went to school, got a new career, and got it done through private insurance, all faster than the Veteran's Administration could do it.Keep pushing that socialized medicine, Obama, it'll be the end of the Democratic party.
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Well there is where you're wrong. I don't think you know the consequences of Agent Orange exposure but it's lifelong. And yes she had health insurance both private and through the vets since her husband is an Army veteran. But she used up the lifetime benefit on her private insurance and since she had the pre-existing condition, most insurances wouldn't touch it at that time or the cost was exhorbitant. And I don't know if you know much about veteran's insurance coverage for spouses but it's a pittance. So don't judge before you know the facts.
Are you going to answer anything I asked of you in my post?
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So I talking to a Republican friend of mine about Obama. He said that although he was not happy with Obama; he felt that Obama was pretty much following what he said he was going to do during the campaign so he gave him credit for that.Besides Executive Powers where he has backtracked and favored the Bush/Cheney model of what rights the Executive Branch holds, I would agree.Also I saw ZD's comment about how many folks that he knows are unhappy with Obama's performance. In lNorthern California, I find the opposite as most folks who voted for Obama are quite satisfied with his performance. Obviously his approach on taxes, spending and wealth distribution is not favored since Silicon Valley is a somewhat wealthier area but it's not like the voters who voted for Obama didn't think he would go down this route on his economic policies.

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So I talking to a Republican friend of mine about Obama. He said that although he was not happy with Obama; he felt that Obama was pretty much following what he said he was going to do during the campaign so he gave him credit for that.Besides Executive Powers where he has backtracked and favored the Bush/Cheney model of what rights the Executive Branch holds, I would agree.Also I saw ZD's comment about how many folks that he knows are unhappy with Obama's performance. In lNorthern California, I find the opposite as most folks who voted for Obama are quite satisfied with his performance. Obviously his approach on taxes, spending and wealth distribution is not favored since Silicon Valley is a somewhat wealthier area but it's not like the voters who voted for Obama didn't think he would go down this route on his economic policies.
Obviously, I haven't probed everyone I talk to about a bunch of specific issues, but generally, to clarify, they don't see the "Hope and Change" Obama and Oprah promised. They see a typical politician who has behaved as such. They don't hate him, but they just don't see him as the savior he tries to make himself out to be.
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People hear what they want to hear. I have listened to his speeches. The only thing I've noticed is that he lacks the arrogance that colored all of the Bush administration and still does. The idea that America is always right and everyone else is always wrong. If you can't handle that not being the case then the problem is yours not his. Basically all I've seen President Obama do is admit that America isn't now and hasn't been perfect. Something the rightwingloonies have a great deal of trouble doing.
Anyone who can't see Obamas arrogance is buck wild crazy. Oh, it's Nimue. Never mind.
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If you see what happened in other countries nationalizing health care is a disaster. Especially if you see what's happened in bigger populations. It's good for a small population. But on a big scale it will never work. Just look at how the same concept has worked for public schools. It'll be the same concept with hospitals. Less fortunate people won't be able to get good health care in that system. If you don't believe me just read about what's happened in other bigger populated countries.

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3. the idea that people can be bankrupted by medical bills in this country is just plain wrong. I don't have the capacity to tell you what needs to be done about it but something does. I have a friend who was exposed to Agent Orange and they were bankrupted by her medical bills. They ended up living in a tent for one summer before they came to a church that actually offered them a roof over their heads. Now that's wrong. Nobody should be made homeless by medical bills. Nobody.
I'm quite proud to live in a country where we have advanced so far medically, that we are capable of doing procedures so complex, that the cost of said procedure could bankrupt a person.You know what you should do if you cant afford the health care? Don't get the health care, my guess is that you value your health a bit more than your house, so you'd be willing to save your life instead of saving your house, which people tend to do.Claim that the procedure is too costly? Thats what happens when you let doctors get sued everyday
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I'm quite proud to live in a country where we have advanced so far medically, that we are capable of doing procedures so complex, that the cost of said procedure could bankrupt a person.
that is... an interesting* way to put it.*off your meds today?
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If the government provided our health insurance, would it give them the right to tell us we can't smoke or drink or have high cholesterol? Where does it stop? If we agree to let the government step in and handle our healthcare, then they'd have a right to tell us to be healthier right? Are you okay with the government telling you what foods you can and can't eat? Just exactly how much intrusion are you okay with?
Three of the biggest costs to the British health service are Cancer, alcohol related incidents and obesity. You would think the logical argument would be that the government would stop people drinking/smoking/eating, but that's not what happens at all. Heck we even have a lower drinking/smoking age than you do.
Anyone who can't see Obamas arrogance is buck wild crazy. Oh, it's Nimue. Never mind.
I think arrogance is pretty much a given for anyone to achieve the position of president, you just don't get there by thinking other people are more right than you are.
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I think arrogance is pretty much a given for anyone to achieve the position of president, you just don't get there by thinking other people are more right than you are.
While I agree with you, Obama is off the charts in this regard. I think it would be impossible for most men to be otherwise when they have an adoring throng of celebrities, media, ect. constantly singing their praises.
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This is one of the models that Obama suggested for nationalizing health care.My brother was a vet, and had pins in his shoulder. The pins started coming out, making him unable to use his arm, and he couldn't work. They promised they'd fix it eventually, but it was a government run health care plan, so the wait was years. He went to school, got a new career, and got it done through private insurance, all faster than the Veteran's Administration could do it.Keep pushing that socialized medicine, Obama, it'll be the end of the Democratic party.
I haven't said that socialized medicine is necessarily the way to go but the present system isn't either. Perhaps it will take a combination of things. Like considering outside policing of doctors and hospitals so that doctors doing a good job aren't the victims insurance wise of doctors that have a habit of screwing up. Inside policing hasn't worked no matter what the industry so why should we believe that it's any different in the medical one. And maybe there needs to be some kind of cap on malpractice punitive damages. Not actual damages mind you because if a doctor or hospital screw up then they should pay for that screw up. And I agree about Veteran's healthcare - it sucks. So I'm not entirely with the idea that we need a single payer national health plan. I just haven't seen anything practical as far as an alternative. And some healthcare is better than none.
Are you going to answer anything I asked of you in my post?
You mean besides the accusation that somehow it's my friend's fault that she ended up in the situation she was in? I think that was enough of an answer. The rest was the same old same old and I think I addressed that in answer to H's question.
Anyone who can't see Obamas arrogance is buck wild crazy. Oh, it's Nimue. Never mind.
Yep and Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are ever so humble. Seems if there's blindness it's on both sides isn't it LMD? But as far as arrogance, so far I've seen President Obama at least listen to the opposition. And he's not even being FORCED to which is basically what happened with Mr. Bush. With Mr. Bush it was "my way or the highway" until it became obvious that he wasn't going to get his way. Then and only then did he even put on a show of listening to anything the opposition had to say. And as far as his treatment of other countries, it was pretty much the same. I do agree that it takes some arrogance to become POTUS. But so far Mr. Obama hasn't been so "in your face" about it as Mr. Bush was. It's apparent that he's learned the old adage that you get more with honey than with vinegar.
I'm quite proud to live in a country where we have advanced so far medically, that we are capable of doing procedures so complex, that the cost of said procedure could bankrupt a person.You know what you should do if you cant afford the health care? Don't get the health care, my guess is that you value your health a bit more than your house, so you'd be willing to save your life instead of saving your house, which people tend to do.Claim that the procedure is too costly? Thats what happens when you let doctors get sued everyday
Until it happens to you Dagata.
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