The Official Obama Scorecard Thread

[NickZepp 0]

This isn't true.1) Someone stated that Obama was upset at the Bush/GOP presidency. What are the main reasons people say that Bush was terrible?... you have 5 seconds.... The answer will almost 100% of the time be the war and the deficit. When you see a car with an Obama bumper sticker and it has at least one other sticker, what issues will be involved? The war and that stupid pie chart with Bush's budget are on almost every single one. (The only other major issue on Obama bumpers is abortion and Bush did nothing for or against that)2) I stated that nothing that the dems are currently upset about matter and they have no basis at all for being upset at Bush or his presidency. Why? 1) Because 90% of the dems voted for the war, and so the war is an absolutely moot point... which you have already agreed with. 2) Obama has already spent more than Bush did in 8 years in office.3) As you can see clearly see, the 'intelligence' behind the war vote simply doesn't matter, so your point is irrelevant... by your own admission. I accept your apology.4) Kisses

I don't get why people don't realize this. If a republican were president right now and doing the exact same things Obama has done do you know how big time they would be bad mouthed by people that call themselves democrats? You aren't hearing a word out of those same people. All you hear about is how bad Bush was. I don't care about Bush right now, let us move on to the current administration and realize they aren't really any different from the last one. They want the rich to continue to get their money no matter what happens to the economy.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I'm lazy, this is from wikipedia. It seems to me that Bush didn't do anything to help our debt situation. "slowly went out" is a bad way to describe it unless you're talking percentage of GDP, which... doesn't really relate much to the discussion.I remember seeing the talking heads on fox putting up deceptive charts showing "low" bush spending levels and the extremely huge obama budget, complete with a trend line based on bush's final year and obama's initial. I do not see obama getting approval for spending at these levels in any of his subsequent years in office, but I understand that you can't let that get in the way of a big scary graph.zepp, do have an obama anti-american quote to share with us? the closest thing I heard to anti-american sentiment was sarah palin's "real america" comments...

Obviously you missed the Church teaching of Obama's 20 year pastor.

[strategy 4]

Obviously you missed the Church teaching of Obama's 20 year pastor.

good lord, I hope you're kidding

Also if you want to talk about expansion of the executive branch, you may want to take a gander at Bill Clinton and his 364 executive orders.... 30% more than W. Or you could look at the 456 people he granted pardons and clemency to, vs. Bush at 189 pardons, with every single person having served their entire sentence.

it was just an examplelet's talk more about how fucked I am job-wise

[Zealous Donkey 0]

good lord, I hope you're kiddingit was just an examplelet's talk more about how fucked I am job-wise

Are you denying that Jerimiah Wright's "sermons" from the pulpit were anti-American? I think you can make a case that Obama is anti-American. He certainly is more of a socialist than America has historically been, and trashing the last administration after he has already won the election is classless. His vision of what America should be is quite different than what it has historically been. I don't know if anti-American is the right word, it sounds harsh, but I understand the points of those who call him that. If that isn't enough there will be plenty more to come.

[strategy 4]

Are you denying that Jerimiah Wright's "sermons" from the pulpit were anti-American?

Got any sweet email forwards for me?

I think you can make a case that Obama is anti-American. He certainly is more of a socialist than America has historically been, and trashing the last administration after he has already won the election is classless. His vision of what America should be is quite different than what it has historically been. I don't know if anti-American is the right word, it sounds harsh, but I understand the points of those who call him that. If that isn't enough there will be plenty more to come.

I suspect you don't understand the severity of the accusation. He's allowed to be left of the traditional center, and he's also allowed to deride Bush's awful policies whilst setting the tone for his own. Nothing you listed does anything to prove that Obama is anti-american. I wait with baited breath for the "plenty more to come."

[vbnautilus 48]

Are you denying that Jerimiah Wright's "sermons" from the pulpit were anti-American? I think you can make a case that Obama is anti-American. He certainly is more of a socialist than America has historically been, and trashing the last administration after he has already won the election is classless. His vision of what America should be is quite different than what it has historically been. I don't know if anti-American is the right word, it sounds harsh, but I understand the points of those who call him that. If that isn't enough there will be plenty more to come.

I guess I don't know what "american" is if Obama is against it.

[hblask 1]

I guess I don't know what "american" is if Obama is against it.

If the definition of "american" is freedom, liberty, voluntary consensus, limited government, and free markets, then I'd say Obama is against those things.If the definition of "american" is that we are a democratic free-for-all, then Obama is not anti-american.

[NickZepp 0]

If the definition of "american" is freedom, liberty, voluntary consensus, limited government, and free markets, then I'd say Obama is against those things.If the definition of "american" is that we are a democratic free-for-all, then Obama is not anti-american.

The founding fathers definition was closer to the top one. They were 100% against a democracy believe it or not.

[strategy 4]

If the definition of "american" is freedom, liberty, voluntary consensus, limited government, and free markets, then I'd say Obama is against those things.If the definition of "american" is that we are a democratic free-for-all, then Obama is not anti-american.

the first line, not that I'd want to research and cite it all (to be fair, neither did you) but I imagine one could call out most of the last few presidents on all of those points. sadly, nobody meets hblask's standards.democratic free-for-all is actually a fun way to play real-time strategy games like starcraft.

[hblask 1]

the first line, not that I'd want to research and cite it all (to be fair, neither did you) but I imagine one could call out most of the last few presidents on all of those points. sadly, nobody meets hblask's standards.

Yeah, it goes back a long way; some cite Lincoln as the first, but more realistically it was FDR who gave up on the American dream.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Got any sweet email forwards for me?I suspect you don't understand the severity of the accusation. He's allowed to be left of the traditional center, and he's also allowed to deride Bush's awful policies whilst setting the tone for his own. Nothing you listed does anything to prove that Obama is anti-american. I wait with baited breath for the "plenty more to come."

The plenty more to come is from Obama's policies, which I think will even have you convinced before his 1st term is completed. "Left of Center"? You have to be kidding me, He is a socialist, the most socialist to ever hold the office of president, he isn't merely left of center. Of course he is allowed to be a socialist, and deride the past president, no one is saying he isn't allowed. I also love how someone yelled something at a Palin Rally(which later was determained not to even be the case) and it was the lead story on every news show but Obama sit in Wrights church for 20 years and if not for Fox News it never would have been reported (Certainly not to the extent it was).

[irishguy 14]

The plenty more to come is from Obama's policies, which I think will even have you convinced before his 1st term is completed. "Left of Center"? You have to be kidding me, He is a socialist, the most socialist to ever hold the office of president, he isn't merely left of center. Of course he is allowed to be a socialist, and deride the past president, no one is saying he isn't allowed. I also love how someone yelled something at a Palin Rally(which later was determained not to even be the case) and it was the lead story on every news show but Obama sit in Wrights church for 20 years and if not for Fox News it never would have been reported (Certainly not to the extent it was).

The Wright stuff was on every single news station, in every paper, in many ads from McCain on every major station....nice to see that time hasn't given you any perspective on the issue.

[CaneBrain 95]

The plenty more to come is from Obama's policies, which I think will even have you convinced before his 1st term is completed. "Left of Center"? You have to be kidding me, He is a socialist, the most socialist to ever hold the office of president, he isn't merely left of center. Of course he is allowed to be a socialist, and deride the past president, no one is saying he isn't allowed. I also love how someone yelled something at a Palin Rally(which later was determained not to even be the case) and it was the lead story on every news show but Obama sit in Wrights church for 20 years and if not for Fox News it never would have been reported (Certainly not to the extent it was).

The idea that CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS did not report on the Jeremiah Wright issue is hilarious. Are you serious? It was the lead story for days. I think I saw that clip of Wright mocking white people clapping 5,000 times. Just like I saw the clip of some woman telling McCain at a big rally that Obama is an Arab (and McCain looking really embarrassed and sad on the inside) 5,000 times. Thank god for those brave men and women at Fox News bringing us the real stories like the Obamas' terrorist fist bump, the imminent arrival of FEMA refugee camps, and how the threat of gay marriage caused a 52% divorce rate in America.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

The idea that CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS did not report on the Jeremiah Wright issue is hilarious. Are you serious? It was the lead story for days. I think I saw that clip of Wright mocking white people clapping 5,000 times. Just like I saw the clip of some woman telling McCain that Obama is an Arab (and McCain looking really embarrassed and sad on the inside) 5,000 times. Thank god for those brave men and women at Fox News bringing us the real stories like the Obamas' terrorist fist bump, the imminent arrival of FEMA refugee camps, and how the threat of gay marriage caused a 52% divorce rate in America.

The story was there a long time before it was picked up by everyone and to characterize it as any thing other than that is dishonest. If you guys want to make an argument, then argue the point. I didn't say it wasn't reported, nor was I espousing the merits of Fox News. Anyhow I am not rehashing this whole argument again, I simply got sick of hearing the attacks on posters who are accurately describing exactly what Obama has been doing and can understand how it can be seen as contrary to what Americas values have been in the past. To try and characterize people as right wing, religious, brainwashed, retarded bigots because they actually have the audacity to see what he is doing and call him on it, inspired me to post. I don't want to change the subject to Jeremiah Wright.

[strategy 4]

...I simply got sick of hearing the attacks on posters who are accurately describing exactly what Obama has been doing...

characterizing obama as anti-american is not accurate. all of the efforts to do so were debunked thoroughly.

[CaneBrain 95]

The story was there a long time before it was picked up by everyone and to characterize it as any thing other than that is dishonest. If you guys want to make an argument, then argue the point. I didn't say it wasn't reported, nor was I espousing the merits of Fox News. Anyhow I am not rehashing this whole argument again, I simply got sick of hearing the attacks on posters who are accurately describing exactly what Obama has been doing and can understand how it can be seen as contrary to what Americas values have been in the past. To try and characterize people as right wing, religious, brainwashed, retarded bigots because they actually have the audacity to see what he is doing and call him on it, inspired me to post. I don't want to change the subject to Jeremiah Wright.

we clearly have a different version of the word accurate. You were the one who changed the subject with the absurd notion that only Fox News made Jeremiah Wright a huge story (which is inaccurate). You dont have audacity if you see something you dont like and comment about it on a poker forum. We will work on the words accurate and audacity (hint: throwing a shoe at a president shows a lot of audacity). I think the overwhelming majority of people who claim Obama is un-American are right wing and religious (see: Cheney, Notre Dame, et al.) The next three adjectives are found in all political groups (though bigotry and religion often go hand in hand these days).I completely agree that what Obama is doing is contrary to what some of America's values have been in the past. It's definitely contrary to slavery. Certainly, his actions are contrary to much of Bush's social policy. Of course, much of what he has said about religion and its role in politics and government sounds a lot like what Thomas Jefferson said about that subject. Maybe it just depends on whose values from the past you use (and what part of the past you are referring to).

[Zealous Donkey 0]

we clearly have a different version of the word accurate. You were the one who changed the subject with the absurd notion that only Fox News made Jeremiah Wright a huge story (which is inaccurate).

Your right, I concede this point, the MSM worked tirelessly to uncover this story and reported on it from the first second there was a hint of a story. We will just ignore the statements of those in the media, such as Anderson Cooper, who stated outright that he didn't feel it was relevent and only reluctently began to cover the story after the fact.

You dont have audacity if you see something you dont like and comment about it on a poker forum. We will work on the words accurate and audacity (hint: throwing a shoe at a president shows a lot of audacity).

Ok, thanks.

I think the overwhelming majority of people who claim Obama is un-American are right wing and religious (see: Cheney, Notre Dame, et al.) The next three adjectives are found in all political groups (though bigotry and religion often go hand in hand these days).

I think you will find that you are wrong on this point. The media characterizes everyone that disagrees Obama in this way and it is not surprizing that you lap this up. While I like you and enjoy reading your take on things I would definately have to put you in the catagory of those with Bush Derangement Syndrome. If you were fairminded on this point and held Obama to the same standard you hold Bush you wouldn't simply accept the pro-Obama media narrative as fact.(Ironically, it may be this dissconnect of the media with so many Americans, that brings down Obama's presidency). I encounter every day a lot of discontent with what Obama is doing. People don't trust him, they see him as a phony, and of the people I am talking about not one goes to Church(or at least live a secular life and never talk about religion). It is too early to say he won't win them back, because they are a fickle bunch and most of them voted for him.

I completely agree that what Obama is doing is contrary to what some of America's values have been in the past. It's definitely contrary to slavery. Certainly, his actions are contrary to much of Bush's social policy. Of course, much of what he has said about religion and its role in politics and government sounds a lot like what Thomas Jefferson said about that subject. Maybe it just depends on whose values from the past you use (and what part of the past you are referring to).

Yes, of course, the problem I have with Obama is that he is anti-slavery. It has nothing to do with him flip flopping on just about every significant issue he campaigned on. It has nothing to do with using a financial crisis to pass a huge bill filled with goodies for those who helped get him elected. It has nothing to do with taking over of parts of banking and business sectors. I don't like him because he doesn't want us to go back to a slave owning nation. Just to spell it out for you, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom to own Guns, Free-enterprise, property rights, strong national defense, choice in education are more along the values I was talking about.

[CaneBrain 95]

Your right, I concede this point, the MSM worked tirelessly to uncover this story and reported on it from the first second there was a hint of a story. We will just ignore the statements of those in the media, such as Anderson Cooper, who stated outright that he didn't feel it was relevent and only reluctently began to cover the story after the fact. Ok, thanks. I think you will find that you are wrong on this point. The media characterizes everyone that disagrees Obama in this way and it is not surprizing that you lap this up. While I like you and enjoy reading your take on things I would definately have to put you in the catagory of those with Bush Derangement Syndrome. If you were fairminded on this point and held Obama to the same standard you hold Bush you wouldn't simply accept the pro-Obama media narrative as fact.(Ironically, it may be this dissconnect of the media with so many Americans, that brings down Obama's presidency). I encounter every day a lot of discontent with what Obama is doing. People don't trust him, they see him as a phony, and of the people I am talking about not one goes to Church(or at least live a secular life and never talk about religion). It is too early to say he won't win them back, because they are a fickle bunch and most of them voted for him. Yes, of course, the problem I have with Obama is that he is anti-slavery. It has nothing to do with him flip flopping on just about every significant issue he campaigned on. It has nothing to do with using a financial crisis to pass a huge bill filled with goodies for those who helped get him elected. It has nothing to do with taking over of parts of banking and business sectors. I don't like him because he doesn't want us to go back to a slave owning nation. Just to spell it out for you, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom to own Guns, Free-enterprise, property rights, strong national defense, choice in education are more along the values I was talking about.

and these are all opinions not facts. It is one thing to disagree with what Obama is doing. It is another to call him un-American. Being upset with some his decisions is not the same as calling him un-american or saying he hates america. which is what we were talking about. not discontent with policy decision.I dont see anything Obama does that impinges on Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religious or strong national defense. Choice in education (vouchers, charters and the like) are new, not a part of America's past. I agree that some of his economic decisions go against free-enterprise and property rights....but those decisions were made to try and manage a dire situation. We will see if they were good decisions.And, I dont agree that it is right to hold Obama to the same standard as Bush yet. We have had time to see if Bush's more controversial decisions worked out (most/all did not, imo)......whereas Obama has been in office less than half a year. The constant criticism of Bush did not start until a year before the 2004 election when everyone figured out the intelligence behind the Iraq War was a sham.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

and these are all opinions not facts. It is one thing to disagree with what Obama is doing. It is another to call him un-American. Being upset with some his decisions is not the same as calling him un-american or saying he hates america. which is what we were talking about. not discontent with policy decision.I dont see anything Obama does that impinges on Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religious or strong national defense. Choice in education (vouchers, charters and the like) are new, not a part of America's past. I agree that some of his economic decisions go against free-enterprise and property rights....but those decisions were made to try and manage a dire situation. We will see if they were good decisions.And, I dont agree that it is right to hold Obama to the same standard as Bush yet. We have had time to see if Bush's more controversial decisions worked out (most/all did not, imo)......whereas Obama has been in office less than half a year. The constant criticism of Bush did not start until a year before the 2004 election when everyone figured out the intelligence behind the Iraq War was a sham.

I don't like a lot of what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld either. I don't see them as evil men either. We will see, like you said. I actually think you will find him a lot farther away from your point of view than you do now. I don't understand your social views, you seem to be just like the MSM and hateful towards all religious people and see them as this big threat. But being passive on Iran, N. Korea, Russia, ect, doesn't seem to worry you. What i wish I could make you understand is that in everyday life most Christian, church going people never even have a thought about gay marriage. They live simply lives which is family centered. They are charitable to the poor and believe all men regardless of race were created equal. It absolutely amazes me at how effective the media has been in portraying Christians as this torch wielding mob that is more dangerous to society than socialism, communism, or radical Islam.

[CaneBrain 95]

I don't like a lot of what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld either. I don't see them as evil men either. We will see, like you said. I actually think you will find him a lot farther away from your point of view than you do now. I don't understand your social views, you seem to be just like the MSM and hateful towards all religious people and see them as this big threat. But being passive on Iran, N. Korea, Russia, ect, doesn't seem to worry you. What i wish I could make you understand is that in everyday life most Christian, church going people never even have a thought about gay marriage. They live simply lives which is family centered. They are charitable to the poor and believe all men regardless of race were created equal. It absolutely amazes me at how effective the media has been in portraying Christians as this torch wielding mob that is more dangerous to society than socialism, communism, or radical Islam.

It's not hateful....we just disagree fundamentally on a lot of issues. That's really America's biggest problem right now.....two large percentages of the population disagree strongly on wide swaths of social policy and defense policy. See, you think I am passive on Iran.....I think I am just not overly aggressive on Iran/N. Korea/etc. And dont get me started on iran, the Iraq war has made them a much bigger player in the middle east than they were before it. It does not matter if church-goers think about gay marriage.....when it comes down to it they vote against it and support candidates who vote against it. The fact that most christians dont think about gay marriage makes me wonder why they oppose it so strongly.Again, you obviously have not paid attention to most of my posts.....I think 80% of christians are pretty normal and cool but they do a HORRIBLE job of keeping the lunatic 20% out of politics. And being charitable to the poor and believing all men are created equal is not special it should be expected. I feel atheists are just as charitable to the poor and perhaps even more color-blind and live family-centered lives on just as equal a basis.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

It's not hateful....we just disagree fundamentally on a lot of issues. That's really America's biggest problem right now.....two large percentages of the population disagree strongly on wide swaths of social policy and defense policy. See, you think I am passive on Iran.....I think I am just not overly aggressive on Iran/N. Korea/etc. And dont get me started on iran, the Iraq war has made them a much bigger player in the middle east than they were before it. It does not matter if church-goers think about gay marriage.....when it comes down to it they vote against it and support candidates who vote against it. The fact that most christians dont think about gay marriage makes me wonder why they oppose it so strongly.Again, you obviously have not paid attention to most of my posts.....I think 80% of christians are pretty normal and cool but they do a HORRIBLE job of keeping the lunatic 20% out of politics. And being charitable to the poor and believing all men are created equal is not special it should be expected. I feel atheists are just as charitable to the poor and perhaps even more color-blind and live family-centered lives on just as equal a basis.

If you really believe in what you wrote in that last paragragh then you and I really aren't that far apart. I wasn't talking about you per se in your views on Iran, this issue and others have roots back before these two administrations, but a liberal, or passive, appeasement philosophy along the same lines as the UN is what has us in the situation we are in today. I want to say more but have to go to work.

[NickZepp 0]

characterizing obama as anti-american is not accurate. all of the efforts to do so were debunked thoroughly.

How? Have you actually heard his speaches?

[strategy 4]

How? Have you actually heard his speaches?

I asked for an anti-american quote. all I ask is that you give us the context.hint: the GOP would have slaughtered him in the election if the evidence you are looking for exists

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I asked for an anti-american quote. all I ask is that you give us the context.hint: the GOP would have slaughtered him in the election if the evidence you are looking for exists

No strat, that is why I brought up Jerimiah Wright, he was definately anti-american and that didn't keep him from gettng elected. I will say again that I don't think the 'anti-American' is the best word, but I don't think it is a stretch for some normal everyday americans to see him that way.

[strategy 4]

No strat, that is why I brought up Jerimiah Wright, he was definately anti-american and that didn't keep him from gettng elected. I will say again that I don't think the 'anti-American' is the best word, but I don't think it is a stretch for some normal everyday americans to see him that way.

Until Jeremiah Wright is discovered to actually be Obama, it merits no mention in this discussion.but I heard a lot about this guy bill ayers you might be interested in................