Wtf Chief Justice?!?

[DonkSlayer 1]

I think it was Obama the first time and Roberts the 2nd time, so I guess I was a little hard on the CJOTSCOTUS. I thought the speech was decent. I laughed at the "freedom from religion" comment.

[Don Giovanni 0]

lol at the anti-obamas. the speech was totally fine, get a life. how could you possibly have such a problem with it? and the fact that he acknowledged that there are non believers in this country made my day.

[Balloon guy 158]

Who would have thought that Biden would succinctly and clearly take his oath and Obama would be the one to stumble through and mess up his words?

[Balloon guy 158]

lol at the anti-obamas. the speech was totally fine, get a life. how could you possibly have such a problem with it? and the fact that he acknowledged that there are non believers in this country made my day.

Your life must suck if Obama saying there are non-believers in the country is your highlight

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

This line in the speech made it all worth it for me:"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."I don't think I have ever heard a politician say that. (Contrast with Bush #1's remark: "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.")

Sherman is a dubious source.

[Sheiky 0]

Who would have thought that Biden would succinctly and clearly take his oath and Obama would be the one to stumble through and mess up his words?

Not sure what the general consensus is on this, but I've always thought Obama is very over-rated in terms of public speaking. He can read pretty well from an auto-cue (though I hate the way he ends sentences sometimes and he seems like a bit of a one-trick-pony) but he stumbles non-stop when he has to speak without a prepared answer and he even mentioned in his book that he was clumsy speaker at times.

[vbnautilus 48]

Sherman is a dubious source.

Well it supposedly occurred at a public news conference. But I can't find any actual recordings of the statement, which is odd, so I retract for now pending further investigation.

[Don Giovanni 0]

Your life must suck if Obama saying there are non-believers in the country is your highlight

you clearly dont know what it means. no president has acknowledged non believers before. this is the beginning of a trend toward the future where humanity has moved beyond religion. im also glad obama mentioned science and technology, two more things that i know you hate (but only when they dont help you).

[Balloon guy 158]

you clearly dont know what it means. no president has acknowledged non believers before. this is the beginning of a trend toward the future where humanity has moved beyond religion. im also glad obama mentioned science and technology, two more things that i know you hate (but only when they dont help you).

You are so clearly like 19 years oldit's kind of cutein a sad kind of way

[vbnautilus 48]

You are so clearly like 19 years oldit's kind of cutein a sad kind of way

He's right though, Obama's statement in that context actually represented quite a turning point. You may take it for granted since you are such an open-minded atheist-loving Christian, but I don't think we have ever been acknowledged before by the president in a positive context. I was affected by it. I can see how if you're not sensitive to that issue it seems like just a couple of random words thrown it, but it was actually a significant choice.

[Balloon guy 158]

He's right though, Obama's statement in that context actually represented quite a turning point. You may take it for granted since you are such an open-minded atheist-loving Christian, but I don't think we have ever been acknowledged before by the president in a positive context. I was affected by it. I can see how if you're not sensitive to that issue it seems like just a couple of random words thrown it, but it was actually a significant choice.

A turning point? Really.A Christian man, who was told by his party to tone down his attempts to reach out to the Chrisitans in this country, who asked Rick Warren to pray at his inauguration, and who quoted scripture ( badly), evoked God's name multiple times in his speech, mentions that some people in this country don't believe in God?This is a turning point?We have already had whole countries go completely athiest...( Russia, China) mentioning a super small minority in this country is hardly a turning point.More like a pandering point put in while trying to come up with one more group of people in his list to show that we are inclusive.Funny that his making this inclusion point is seen as the beginning of the end for all religions in 'some' people's 'minds'.I've never met a more closed minded person than the closed mindedness of a young liberal

[James D 0]

I've never met a more closed minded person than the closed mindedness of a young liberal

I'll be stealing this line. Thanks.

[Balloon guy 158]

I'll be stealing this line. Thanks.

Try to make it flow better, I don't think it really flowed well.

[vbnautilus 48]

A turning point? Really.A Christian man, who was told by his party to tone down his attempts to reach out to the Chrisitans in this country, who asked Rick Warren to pray at his inauguration, and who quoted scripture ( badly), evoked God's name multiple times in his speech, mentions that some people in this country don't believe in God?

No one thinks Obama is an atheist. That's not the point. But there's a difference between a Christian president who acknowledges that atheists are part of this country and one who doesn't.

This is a turning point?We have already had whole countries go completely athiest...( Russia, China) mentioning a super small minority in this country is hardly a turning point.

The fact that we are a small minority is exactly why it is so significant to be acknowledged. Lip service is important for small minorities, especially when it is given on such a large stage. Look at how much time the gays get from liberal politicians and by many counts they are fewer than us.

More like a pandering point put in while trying to come up with one more group of people in his list to show that we are inclusive.

Yes. But that's the key difference. The Bushes made it pretty clear that they didn't include us in who they felt they represented.

Funny that his making this inclusion point is seen as the beginning of the end for all religions in 'some' people's 'minds'.

Oh I obviously don't think this comment is the beginning of the end for all religions. (That probably happened sometime around The Enlightenment. Yeah, I realize its a slow process). What's significant about this is not about the end of religion, it's about the evolving political status of nonbelievers. That's the turning point I was referring to. When people are asked if they would vote for an atheist, we rank below mormons and gays in terms of desirability for candidacy. They'd rather have a Mormon!? Come on!! I think there have been several gay congresspeople, but only one who admitted to not believing in God. So there's little to no representation. The president is supposed to represent all of us, so it's nice to have one that finally included us in the 'all'. That's all.

I've never met a more closed minded person than the closed mindedness of a young liberal

I don't know if you were referring to me or to the other guy, but remember we have conclusive graphicological proof that I am a centrist and not a liberal.

[Balloon guy 158]

No one thinks Obama is an atheist. That's not the point. But there's a difference between a Christian president who acknowledges that atheists are part of this country and one who doesn't.

I think you guys were a little over sensative to think Bush thought less of you just because you have a faulty logic about the creation of the Universe.

The fact that we are a small minority is exactly why it is so significant to be acknowledged. Lip service is important for small minorities, especially when it is given on such a large stage. Look at how much time the gays get from liberal politicians and by many counts they are fewer than us.

So excluding Wiccans was a bad thing?

Yes. But that's the key difference. The Bushes made it pretty clear that they didn't include us in who they felt they represented.

I think this goes against the kind of man Bush is, but if you felt that way than I'll try to see it from that viewpoint.

Oh I obviously don't think this comment is the beginning of the end for all religions. (That probably happened sometime around The Enlightenment. Yeah, I realize its a slow process). What's significant about this is not about the end of religion, it's about the evolving political status of nonbelievers. That's the turning point I was referring to. When people are asked if they would vote for an atheist, we rank below mormons and gays in terms of desirability for candidacy. They'd rather have a Mormon!? Come on!! I think there have been several gay congresspeople, but only one who admitted to not believing in God. So there's little to no representation. The president is supposed to represent all of us, so it's nice to have one that finally included us in the 'all'. That's all.

That's cute, you have a name for it..the Enlightenment. I guess I could understand your feelings of exclusion if it wasn't for the nonstop constant attack on anything Christian to the point that it is politically inncorrect to say Merry Christmas, or mention God in school. But all children are taught that there was no God in the formation of the universe from day one. so it's hardly a political ideology that is under seige.

I don't know if you were referring to me or to the other guy, but remember we have conclusive graphicological proof that I am a centrist and not a liberal.

Totally the other guy. You are a good debater, even if you do feel comfortable lying to Monks so you can be internet famous.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think you guys were a little over sensative to think Bush thought less of you just because you have a faulty logic about the creation of the Universe.

Yes, Bush is surely the Guardian of Logic.

So excluding Wiccans was a bad thing?

I, for one, welcome the contributions of our Wiccan friends to society. ( For the record, and because I can't pass up a jab at christianity, I find their religion to be far more reasonable than yours. ) I'm sure if the Wiccan community grew to the point where they received recognition from the president at his inauguration they would feel it was a meaningful moment for them.

I think this goes against the kind of man Bush is, but if you felt that way than I'll try to see it from that viewpoint.

I won't use the Sherman quote because apparently it is questionable, although Bush never denied it. But here's another one from Bush I, that he said on the Don Imus show. Bush: ... Lincoln said you cannot be President without spending some item on your knees. I have repeated that and a bunch of Atheists got all over me. Wait a minute. Does that mean that you cannot be President if you are an Atheist? I say yea that does mean that.”Bush: “One Nation Under God.”Ignore for the moment that he is most likely misquoting Lincoln, and that you agree with what he is saying here. It's certainly a different message than we are hearing now.

That's cute, you have a name for it..the Enlightenment. I guess I could understand your feelings of exclusion if it wasn't for the nonstop constant attack on anything Christian to the point that it is politically inncorrect to say Merry Christmas, or mention God in school. But all children are taught that there was no God in the formation of the universe from day one. so it's hardly a political ideology that is under seige.

I don't really go around crying repression. I'm not standing in a picket line demanding atheist rights. But when you are in a minority you do feel it in various ways, especially when its such a mistrusted minority. There was a study done in 2006 where they asked people how they felt about various groups. Things like, "this group does not agree at all with my vision of American society:"Atheists: 40%Muslims: 26%Homosexuals: 23%Conservative Christians: 14%Recent Immigrants: 13%Jews: 8%So apparently people feel foreign from us, and therefore we're not accustomed to getting shout-outs by the pres or being wooed by politicians.

Totally the other guy. You are a good debater, even if you do feel comfortable lying to Monks so you can be internet famous.

Is there a better reason to lie to the monks?

[CaneBrain 95]

That's cute, you have a name for it..the Enlightenment. I guess I could understand your feelings of exclusion if it wasn't for the nonstop constant attack on anything Christian to the point that it is politically inncorrect to say Merry Christmas, or mention God in school. But all children are taught that there was no God in the formation of the universe from day one. so it's hardly a political ideology that is under seige.

We would let the Merry Christmas thing go if you guys would stop starting Christmas in early November. Promise.I think there was a big meeting for Christians fighting against the repression of their religion recently. It was in the convention center of the (5 star) Omni Hotel. Maybe someday...someday... they will let you guys in two star hotels too.

[fighter 4]

Obama retakes oath of office after Roberts' mistakehttp://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/21...=rss_topstories

[KramitDaToad 0]

Obama retakes oath of office after Roberts' mistakehttp://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/21...=rss_topstories

Without a Bible...<reaches for popcorn>

[DonkSlayer 1]

Without a Bible...<reaches for popcorn>

You just said that to joke the sensationalist press, right?

[Don Giovanni 0]

I've never met a more closed minded person than the closed mindedness of a young liberal

conservative christian republicans: the beacon of open mindednessgood thing we have you to be so open minded about things like evolution, environmental concern, equality, and rights of prisoners (human rights, in other words)oh and youre right, that sentence doesnt flow very well. in fact, it doesnt make sense. it implies that 'closed mindedness' is a person.

[Balloon guy 158]

conservative christian republicans: the beacon of open mindednessgood thing we have you to be so open minded about things like evolution, environmental concern, equality, and rights of prisoners (human rights, in other words)oh and youre right, that sentence doesnt flow very well. in fact, it doesnt make sense. it implies that 'closed mindedness' is a person.

Anytime you want to compare the freedoms brought under Christian based governments like oursvs Athiest based governments like the ones you have wet dreams about.I am here to discuss it.Please feel free to bring up the Crusades if it helps

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Anytime you want to compare the freedoms brought under Christian based governments like oursvs Athiest based governments like the ones you have wet dreams about.I am here to discuss it.

Okay. But I'm not sure what a "Christian Government" or an "Atheist Government" actually means. Would a Christian Government require that people be Christian or that they pray or that a picture of Jesus be placed in all buildings? Would an atheist one require that all images of Jesus be burned and that all people denounce religion? Is a government Christian because it happens to have certain principles that are supported by the Bible? Can a government be atheist if it also has these principles but ignores any parts involving God?

[vbnautilus 48]

Okay. But I'm not sure what a "Christian Government" or an "Atheist Government" actually means. Would a Christian Government require that people be Christian or that they pray or that a picture of Jesus be placed in all buildings? Would an atheist one require that all images of Jesus be burned and that all people denounce religion? Is a government Christian because it happens to have certain principles that are supported by the Bible? Can a government be atheist if it also has these principles but ignores any parts involving God?

He knows that not all potential "atheist" governments are fascist or communist killing machines. He just enjoys the dueling death count argument between all the silly ideologies of the world and likes to pretend that mao and hitler are ours. I was going to post some kind of 'itsatrap' image before you responded, but then I realized I kind of wanted Don Giovanni to fall into said trap.

[hblask 1]

The dueling ideology battle should not be fought between religion vs non-religion.It should be fought between ideologies that ask people to sacrifice of themselves for a greater good (as determined by a few), vs those that ask people to be true to themselves.Then we can start counting death tolls correctly.