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You will most likely need a metal/chain pincher collar and hblask might not approve but I doubt you can achieve anything without it.
You are right, I don't approve, this is a terrible idea. You want an 80 pound dog to WANT to work with you, not fear you. Methods that punish can lead to deferred aggression. Deferred aggression is the reason Sigfried and Roy don't perform anymore. If you use punishing methods, one of two things tends to happen: learned helplessness, where your dog gets stressed and depressed, or deferred aggression, where eventually the dog gets sick of you hurting it and it strikes out all at once.
For BG I would start with the basics with the German Shephard getting it used to the new training going on by teaching it "sit" "stay" and "by me" which is using the hand with the treat, stepping back to get it to sit next to you. I would use the lease during all this training so that it doesn't run off. Only positive reinforcement is great with a pup but an older, untrained dog will you will likely need both. IN any case always have the leash on during training and be consistent working with it on a daily basis.
I guess I didn't say it, but yes, during all these training sessions your dog should be on a leash. It should be a plain leather leash -- they are easy on your hands, easy to stand on as explained above, and a good length.Another suggestion that should've popped to mind right away is a Gentle Leader (http://www.buygentleleader.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/behavior/gentleleader/description). This is NOT a muzzle, it's a collar with an extra strap around their nose. These are excellent for bigger dogs, because it allows you to control the dog very easily without painful methods. There are knockoffs of this brand, but none seem to work as well. You may want to get your vet or a high-quality pet store to help you find the right size. If you do the training above with a Gentle Leader, it will go much faster.By the way, your dog may hate it at first and try to scrape it off its face, but you can train them to get over that, too, with the appropriate rewards.
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These are herding dogs so they have like unlimited amounts of energy, especially when young. Nesta however in her old age has slowed down quite a bit. She much prefers lying around to jumping around these days. The little one can be quite an annoyance to her, jumping on her, pulling on her cords, etc. Only trying to play obviously, but annoying nonetheless. My first instinct is to just let them work it out amongst themselves, and sometimes Nesta does get to the point where she will defend herself, but really it seems like most often she is bothered but doesn't really have the energy to keep swatting away the little one. She kinda looks up at me like, "thanks, man. this thing is your fault, get it off of me." At what point would you intervene on the older one's behalf? I do step in whenever I see her pulling on the cords since I don't want her to chew her own cords when they grow in. But am I right to just let her proceed with her annoying of the other dog?
I'd mostly let them work it out. Even old dogs have ways of communicating their displeasure with the game, probably by snapping at the young, pushy dog. Unless they are actually harming each other, let it go.I would, though, give the older dog breaks by physically separating them so the old dog can rest in peace once in a while. You'll have to decide how much is too much, but for the most part they let each other know the rules.
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First, Bauer - We've had Bauer for about 3 months now. He's a rottie/aussie shep mix, found as a stray. He wasn't fixed when I first brought him home, which was a big part in my alpha, Sidney, not liking him. They've gotten better since, to the point where I can take them for a walk together, hold their leashes in the same hand, and they'll walk shoulder to shoulder the whole way, sometimes even licking each other. But when we're inside, Bauer becomes the aggressor... he barks constantly at Sid through his cage whenever Sid comes near me. He barks at my other males too through his cage, but outside of the cage, he's best friends with them. I still can't have him and Sid loose together, though, because Bauer becomes defensive and starts growling, which sets Sid off. I know his main issues are a) cage aggression , b ) jealousy, and c ) food aggression. Any ideas on working on the food aggression and cage aggression? We'd love to get him out of the cage permanently (except when we're gone, because he's still got destructive puppy tendencies) and integrate him with the rest of the pack so we can keep him, but if we can't, he'll have to go somewhere else.
You are describing a very complex situation, and there are many, many factors. I think you need an expert in your home to analyze this one. And yes, it should be an in-home evaluation. In the meantime, you can contact Linda Brodzik at the website in the first post in this thread, she'll answer questions by email or you can even call her. She's not great at typing, so you'll have to forgive the grammar errors and stuff, but she would be able to give you a couple suggestions and maybe recommend someone in your area.
Second, Stanford - Stan is a big lab/mastiff mix that we fostered temporarily during Thanksgiving, and then we gave him to his new foster home. After about a week, he bit the guy's 10 year old daughter in the face. I don't feel like getting in to that whole story now, but it was a complete accident, I'm certain. He's a very rambunctious dog, and often tries to play with people as he does with dogs... he has absolutely no human aggression. I tried to convince the group we foster for that it was an accident, and with training it wouldn't happen again, but they couldn't risk it so he had to leave their program... they were going to euthanize him, but we asked them to give him to us, and we'd sign whatever paperwork necessary to remove all future liability from SNIPSA. His big issue is that he's very mouthy (to the point it can be dangerous to small children, obviously). He listens well, he knows sit/stay/down, he's great in the house, he's pretty much the perfect big dog... except he loves to play, and to him play is very mouth-centric. I know this issue exists because he wasn't properly trained as a puppy on when it was and wasn't okay to use his mouth... I'd bet he was taken away from his mother and litter at way too young an age. But anyways, what kind of tips do you have to stop the mouthing (and jumping that goes along with it)?
A big question is the severity of the bite. If it's an accidental scratch, you can train it out easily. If it's an actual puncture wound or bite, it can be trained out, but my opinion is, there are thousands of sweet dogs euthanized every day, why take the chance that you can fix one that bites. It can be a close call sometimes on whether it is worth the effort of training it. One client had a really sweet black lab that suddenly one day ripped his son-in-law's lip off. They decided to try to keep him with the proper training from Linda, but for me, that's over the line. Do you really want to live with that threat?So if it really was just a playing scratch, what you want to do is engage the dog in play and just stop the game when mouth touches skin. Every time, 100%. Play, play, play, mouth, uh-uh, walk away, game over. You can even do time-outs -- gently lead the dog to a crate or a time-out room. Ten minutes later, try again. It is the owner's job to determine how rambunctious play should be, and with a big dog, the answer should be "not at all". It's just too dangerous. You can do the rope tugging thing, but that's about as rambunctious as I'd get with a bigger dog.But I would worry about the fact that he broke the skin. Any time that happens, you have to be very concerned.
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Ok, so we have a ten year old Puli and we recently got a new Puli puppy who is about 6 mos old now. My question concerns family integration. First, the obligatory pics. Nesta is the black one and Maia is the white puppy. nestamaia1.jpgnestamaia2.jpgnestamaia3.jpgThese are herding dogs so they have like unlimited amounts of energy, especially when young. Nesta however in her old age has slowed down quite a bit. She much prefers lying around to jumping around these days. The little one can be quite an annoyance to her, jumping on her, pulling on her cords, etc. Only trying to play obviously, but annoying nonetheless. My first instinct is to just let them work it out amongst themselves, and sometimes Nesta does get to the point where she will defend herself, but really it seems like most often she is bothered but doesn't really have the energy to keep swatting away the little one. She kinda looks up at me like, "thanks, man. this thing is your fault, get it off of me." At what point would you intervene on the older one's behalf? I do step in whenever I see her pulling on the cords since I don't want her to chew her own cords when they grow in. But am I right to just let her proceed with her annoying of the other dog?
Dang, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you own chewbacca, not a dog.
You are right, I don't approve, this is a terrible idea. You want an 80 pound dog to WANT to work with you, not fear you. Methods that punish can lead to deferred aggression. Deferred aggression is the reason Sigfried and Roy don't perform anymore. If you use punishing methods, one of two things tends to happen: learned helplessness, where your dog gets stressed and depressed, or deferred aggression, where eventually the dog gets sick of you hurting it and it strikes out all at once.I guess I didn't say it, but yes, during all these training sessions your dog should be on a leash. It should be a plain leather leash -- they are easy on your hands, easy to stand on as explained above, and a good length.Another suggestion that should've popped to mind right away is a Gentle Leader (http://www.buygentleleader.com/View.aspx?page=dogs/products/behavior/gentleleader/description). This is NOT a muzzle, it's a collar with an extra strap around their nose. These are excellent for bigger dogs, because it allows you to control the dog very easily without painful methods. There are knockoffs of this brand, but none seem to work as well. You may want to get your vet or a high-quality pet store to help you find the right size. If you do the training above with a Gentle Leader, it will go much faster.By the way, your dog may hate it at first and try to scrape it off its face, but you can train them to get over that, too, with the appropriate rewards.
I knew we'd disagree on this, but I'm not talking about using punishment all the time just when he's walking. He will quickly learn not to take off running with a choker chain and enabling you to constantly reward his good behavior. Get him to learn to stay at your side like hb said go from there. Oh yeah, when givng the treats during the "pause" make sure you keep eye contact. Eye contact is crucial while training. When you are holding his gaze don't let his eyes veer elsewhere. Use a sharp voice command to get his attention back, like a sharp "HA" or something. When he gets walking down you can switch back to a regular chain it's just he's a large dog and even if you master it he'll likely drag the kids. You are just to liable to get very frustrated when all the nicey stuff doesn't work. I've had numerous dogs and they all wouldn't think twice of trying to get ahead of me or lunging period. It kills me to see dogs walking up and down my street every day.
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My friend just got a new puppy (a half lab, half poodle) and is in the process of house training it. What is the best way to go about making sure a new puppy doesn't pee all around the house?

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When he gets walking down you can switch back to a regular chain it's just he's a large dog and even if you master it he'll likely drag the kids. You are just to liable to get very frustrated when all the nicey stuff doesn't work.
Ask yourself the question, would you rather have you frustrated, or an 80 pound feral beast with razor sharp teeth frustrated?Get a Gentle Leader. It's more effective than choke/spike collars, and doesn't make your dog sit around planning your death. And it is much more effective for getting the training you want done.But the bigger reason is because you get a dog to be a friend and companion and playmate, and you want the dog to want to work with you, to want to please you, to be eager to see you. Hurting your dog harms the overall relationship, making everything else in your life with him hard. Yes, many people get away with the cruel methods because dogs have been bred to have good bite inhibition, but really, is that what you want? A dog that tolerates your meanness because you happen to give it food?
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Ask yourself the question, would you rather have you frustrated, or an 80 pound feral beast with razor sharp teeth frustrated?Get a Gentle Leader. It's more effective than choke/spike collars, and doesn't make your dog sit around planning your death. And it is much more effective for getting the training you want done.But the bigger reason is because you get a dog to be a friend and companion and playmate, and you want the dog to want to work with you, to want to please you, to be eager to see you. Hurting your dog harms the overall relationship, making everything else in your life with him hard. Yes, many people get away with the cruel methods because dogs have been bred to have good bite inhibition, but really, is that what you want? A dog that tolerates your meanness because you happen to give it food?
We can agree to disagree I guess. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done your way but from experience i'd say it's unlikely. I'd need to know and see more first hand since it isn't a puppy we'd be training. Also, you call it cruel when I choker chain will cause mild discomfort a few times till it learns not to pull on the leash. I'm totally against anyone being cruel to a dog. Heck, i've seen dogs that don't even pay attention to the chokers or pincher type collars.Heck, i've used cans of coins to rattle and spray bottles of water to help teach pets to stay off the couch as well. You want the dog to see you as his master and constantly want to please you. You have to have firm control and be able to control most thing with eye contact and hand signals. My last dog an Aussie could be running full blast across a field chasing a frisbee but if I yelled "down" you would see a dog doing a rolling tumble to come to a halt.On "come" he would come right to me, sit directly in front of me and stare up directly at my eyes."by me" it would come to my left side and sit.Home- his crateGo to your place- his blankie in the corner.I could go to a field and walk in circles or whatever and he wouldn't leave my left side.I believe he's blow Ron Mexico and leave him a tip if I gave him the hand signal, lol.
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My friend just got a new puppy (a half lab, half poodle) and is in the process of house training it. What is the best way to go about making sure a new puppy doesn't pee all around the house?
This is the handout we give students in class:1) Have the dog on leash at ALL times for training. This does two things. It eliminates the possibility of mistakes, since you will be right there and it also puts you in a leadership role. If you're going into the living room, so is the dog. If you must use your hands for a task, simply tie the leash off to a doorknob or a chair leg. Alternatively, you could tie the leash to your belt loop instead of holding it. 2) Depending on the age of the dog, YOU must initiate housetraining every 2 to 4 hours. For puppies, this can be even more often, but every 2 hours should be sufficient for most dogs. Keep in mind that puppies will need to go out more often in the following situations: a) Eating (right after eating or even during) B) Immediately after sleeping c) During play d) After a bath3) To initiate housetraining, pick up the leash and lure your dog to the doorway you want them to use to eliminate. Initially, it should be the SAME doorway every time. But you should begin luring from various places in the home so that your dog can find the doorway from anywhere in the house. 4) Once at the doorway, praise your dog for finding the door. You can use verbal praise, physical praise in the form of petting or food/treats.5) Go with your dog out the door and to a specific place in the yard where you want your dog to eliminate. Do not simply let your dog run out the door into the yard as this can be misconstrued as playtime. The area does not have to be large. 4x4 is sufficient. 6) Once in the area, stand still and allow your dog 3 to 5 minutes to eliminate. During this time, do NOT prompt your dog to eliminate or praise your dog in any way. You should not even be looking at your dog as this is attention and praise. Give your dog the full range of motion the leash offers and wait.7) If your dog does eliminate in the given time, once your dog is finished going (NOT DURING) then praise your dog enthusiastically. At this point, you can initiate play time or return to the house. If your dog does not eliminate, bring your dog inside to have approximately 20 minutes of kennel time (in a safe, confine area or in a kennel itself) and then begin the process all over again.
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We can agree to disagree I guess. I'm not saying that it couldn't be done your way but from experience i'd say it's unlikely. I'd need to know and see more first hand since it isn't a puppy we'd be training.
We get people in class who believe that the "old ways" of training-through-intimidation is the only way that works. Not surprisingly, they are the only ones with unruly dogs at the end of class. Seriously, your dog will not WANT to work for you if you use that technique, it will be bullied into working for you. Is it possible to be cruel and get good behavior? Yes, for some dogs. But for other dogs you will teach learned helplessness, and others you will teach deferred aggression, which will be deferred until your 3 year old nephew is trying to pet him, and you will be telling the cops "but my dog wouldn't hurt anyone, look, I can stick my hand right in his mouth". Is that a chance you want to take? I wouldn't.The old ways are unnecessary and counterproductive.
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We get people in class who believe that the "old ways" of training-through-intimidation is the only way that works. Not surprisingly, they are the only ones with unruly dogs at the end of class. Seriously, your dog will not WANT to work for you if you use that technique, it will be bullied into working for you. Is it possible to be cruel and get good behavior? Yes, for some dogs. But for other dogs you will teach learned helplessness, and others you will teach deferred aggression, which will be deferred until your 3 year old nephew is trying to pet him, and you will be telling the cops "but my dog wouldn't hurt anyone, look, I can stick my hand right in his mouth". Is that a chance you want to take? I wouldn't.The old ways are unnecessary and counterproductive.
Oh yeah? Well my dog can kick your dogs ass.
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  • 9 months later...

So I go out of the house this morning and notice some feather floating around the door.With a little looking around I find a partially eaten road runner under a bush near the front door.Well the wife can't deal with that, so I get out the shovel and trash bag and clean it all up.I haven't gotten my visa bill yet but I will be expecting a charge to an ACME Piano Company or the such.How do I keep my dog from going into my wallet at night and logging onto the internet to catch road runners?My password is not related to my birthday or my favorite sports team.

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With all due respect to the OP and the psycho babble/Dr Spock approach to dog trainng....I have Labs and train them for Hunt Tests and Field Trials with a very good group of amatuers as well as a professional trainer.There are just a few steps to teaching the dog whatever it is you are trying to teach, whether sit, here, heel etc... and making themreliable on each task.1. Buy an electronic training collar. TriTronics are the best but Dogtra make good ones too.2. Learn how to use it responsibly, try it out on yourself so you know what kind of stimulation you're giving the dog.3. Teach, teach, teach the dog what it is you want them to do. 4. Force what you have taught (through the use of the e-collar and/or a heeling stick for sit/heel)5. Re-enforce if/when the dog does not comply promptly with any command.My 16 month old Lab male sits when I tell him and won't move until another command is given (sit means SIT)He heels perfectly through distractions like kids playing, dogs barking, cats and squirrels running across the road etc.When I say "here" he stops whatever it is he is doing and sprints back to me. Every time.During feeding time he sits, I put his bowl down and he won't move a muscle until I give him the "OK" command so he can eat.Just as an example...And before you start about abuse or some shit, he is a very happy, healthy pup. His tail never stops wagging and he loves to train. This is because the training is FAIR. I never correct for something unless it's been taught and re-taught to the point I knowhe knows what is expected. The invention of the e-collar 20+ years ago and it's subsequent refinement and improvements have made training quicker, easierand much less stressful on the dogs. Just my .02

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You are right, I don't approve, this is a terrible idea. You want an 80 pound dog to WANT to work with you, not fear you. Methods that punish can lead to deferred aggression. Deferred aggression is the reason Sigfried and Roy don't perform anymore. If you use punishing methods, one of two things tends to happen: learned helplessness, where your dog gets stressed and depressed, or deferred aggression, where eventually the dog gets sick of you hurting it and it strikes out all at once.This is such a load of crap. Nobody said anything about punishing the dog. The dog will not get overly stressed, depressed or display "deferred agression" (whatever the hell that is) if you TEACH what you want and are fair with your corrections. Any more than a child will grow up to be serial killer if you spank his bottom or smack his hand for touching the stove after repeatedly telling him not to.*snip
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Of course using en electronic collar is training through punishment...you admit as much when you compare it to spanking a kid. I'm sure it can work very well, and I'm not all that opposed to it if done somewhat responsibly, but it's funny to me that anyone would choose to train that way. A person with the dedication, patience, etc. to train a dog to be like the one you described can get the same exact results through positive reinforcement. But whatever floats your boat.

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1. Buy an electronic training collar. TriTronics are the best but Dogtra make good ones too.2. Learn how to use it responsibly, try it out on yourself so you know what kind of stimulation you're giving the dog.3. Teach, teach, teach the dog what it is you want them to do. 4. Force what you have taught (through the use of the e-collar and/or a heeling stick for sit/heel)5. Re-enforce if/when the dog does not comply promptly with any command.[good results]
You can get better results just by using #3. There is no reason to punish a dog. They are not willfully disobeying you, they just don't know. Showing them the wrong thing doesn't teach them the right thing, it just makes them fear you. And no, not every dog will display signs of deferred aggression. There is a good chance you will get away with inflicting punishment on your dog without any repercussions, because dogs have been bred for thousands of years to not bite humans. But their mouths are full of dangerous weapons that can shred a human with little effort. Why take the chance when you can get the same or better results without punishment?Read the book "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor, it gives a much better explanation. Basically, replace negative behaviors with positive ones. The entire relationship matters. You compare it to spanking kids, and true, most kids that are spanked don't become mass murderers, but they are significant less likely to make it home for the holidays. Decide what kind of relationship you want, and choose the appropriate methods. Fear-based methods can gain obedience. Is that all you want from your dog?
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I should add, there are four different training techniques, from a purely scientific classification point of view: add a reward, remove a reward, add a punishment, remove a punishment. The most effect is to add a reward, the least effect is to add a punishment. (In this post I use punishment to mean "negative stimuli" -- something the dog will work to avoid. So a "punishment" might be making the leash real short and standing on it so all the dog can do is sit next to you without tension. We train people how to do that, so technically, we are "adding punishment", but we do it because it is also removing a reward -- they can't sniff the other dog, or jump on the stranger, or whatever. It doesn't hurt, there is no pulling or tugging, it just limits their movement to your immediate vicinity.All four forms of training work when used appropriately by talented trainers. 95% of people are not talented trainers. I do not consider myself good enough to use positive punishment as training -- shock collars, choke collars, etc. It takes perfect skill and timing, or you risk breaking down the relationship.

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How do you feel about the Dog Whisperer?
He's obviously a very talented trainer with a good theory. The problem is that the show cuts a lot of training down to highlights for television, and there is a danger that viewers will think they know what they are doing, and try to imitate him based on a snippet from TV, when really the situation is more complicated and subtle. People could end up do some bad things to their dog. But yeah, if I needed a dog trainer, I could see hiring him. Just realize the TV show only gives about 5% of what you need to know.
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