tskillz187 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I really didn't know what to do. Villain is a reg. I checked unpost blinds cuz we were both deep and he had position on me... then this happens. He's an 18/15/6.6, I think he probably thinks I'm a nit and weak. We are playin on like 3 tables together and I don't think we've played any pots of consequence but I know he has 3bet me from the blinds when I raised from CO and I folded.No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($200)BB ($79.30)UTG ($82.85)Hero (MP) ($403.15)CO ($42)Button ($392.60)Preflop: Hero is MP with K, K1 fold, Hero raises $8, 1 fold, Button raises $26, 2 folds, Hero raises $54, Button calls $36Flop: ($127) 2, J, 4(2 players)Hero...?I know I should raise more pf on the 4bet, prob to like $66 or so, but I'm more interested in flop play. Link to post Share on other sites
Footballguru 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 hero bets 80-90$.Whats the question here? looks pretty standard unless you get raised. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 b/c of the 4 bet I think I bet out. I like to crai these boards as well though. Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I lead for $90, call a shove/shove over any re-raise and fade a spade vs QxQs. Link to post Share on other sites
JaNnN 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 This doesn't have to be a nasty flop per sé.Preflop the raise to 54 is goodish enough, I would prefer just a tad more, 62 or 64.Preflop considirations-You showed strengh-Opponent call can be J-J or Q-Q or pehaps an A-K suited looking for a good flop.-Every non spade card on the turn is a good card unless he hasA-K of spades in his hand. When He has the Q or J of spades it will be possible to get him of the hand.The thing is not how much you should bet, the real question is if you are willing to stack of on a marginal hand.1;raise to 70-90 rearding how you have played untill now. I would bet around 90 to show my opponent the floptexture doesn't matter to me. If he folds... ok, if reraised I would push.2;Float, c/c the flop and when a (low) non spade falls I would bet 3/4 pot and hope he doesn't have J-J.3;I would have a very hard time to fold this hand on the flop or a non spade turn, unless I have a feeling he does have trip J's. With me the money would go in asap.These are hard spots to play out of position in a raised pot. Hope you have made the right play in hindsight.Jan Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm 4 betting PF to like $80. If he's been 3 betting our PF raises some, maybe that will convince him we're getting defensive and he might think we are sitting on a marginal hand and come over the top which would be juicy juicy. On the flop, I'm prob getting it in and living with the results. We are probably still ahead, but I don't like many turn cards and I think we can get action. If villain has AA, JJ or a flush then it's his lucky lucky night and it sucks to be us. But if he's a regular, this might be OK for metagame. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 hero bets 80-90$.Whats the question here? looks pretty standard unless you get raised.You don't think it's important to anticipate how we're going to react if we get raised before we make our bet?If we don't want to get raised and don't love getting it in with our hand here, maybe we shouldn't be so eager to bet. Link to post Share on other sites
SCS 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 This deep, I'd 4 bet bigger preflop, probably in the range of $65-$70.On the flop, I'd probably bet about 1/2 pot and fold to a raise. I doubt villain will try to raise the flop with less than top set, maybe not not with a set, for fear of being 3 bet shoved on. If I got called, I'd probably make a small bet on a safe turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Footballguru 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 This deep, I'd 4 bet bigger preflop, probably in the range of $65-$70.On the flop, I'd probably bet about 1/2 pot and fold to a raise. I doubt villain will try to raise the flop with less than top set, maybe not not with a set, for fear of being 3 bet shoved on. If I got called, I'd probably make a small bet on a safe turn.you dont think villian would re raise with AsXx? Link to post Share on other sites
Footballguru 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 You don't think it's important to anticipate how we're going to react if we get raised before we make our bet?If we don't want to get raised and don't love getting it in with our hand here, maybe we shouldn't be so eager to bet.Your right, But i think I am willing to get it all in on the flop. Not too many hands beat us. JJ, AsKs, AsQs, and I suppose we must include AA in his range. But the truth is, if he raises us, he most likely doesnt have the made flush. I would say more likely it is a set or AA. Very tough spot. But I think we have to bet out here, no? Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Your right, But i think I am willing to get it all in on the flop. Not too many hands beat us. JJ, AsKs, AsQs, and I suppose we must include AA in his range. But the truth is, if he raises us, he most likely doesnt have the made flush. I would say more likely it is a set or AA. Very tough spot. But I think we have to bet out here, no?i'm fine with a check call. your narrowing villians range too much. based on what he thinks of skillz and the smallish 4-bet pre and both players being so deep his range is bigger that above.i'm not comfortable getting it in 200BBs deep here on the flop Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Your RR size sucks donkeyballs, especially since you're going into a flop OOP. I might open-shove the flop or c/f because any overpair with a spade is calling or pushing at potsize bet and then we have no idea wtf to do after that. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Your RR size sucks donkeyballs, especially since you're going into a flop OOP. I might open-shove the flop or c/f because any overpair with a spade is calling or pushing at potsize bet and then we have no idea wtf to do after that.Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 This doesn't have to be a nasty flop per sé.Preflop the raise to 54 is goodish enough, I would prefer just a tad more, 62 or 64.Preflop considirations-You showed strengh-Opponent call can be J-J or Q-Q or pehaps an A-K suited looking for a good flop.-Every non spade card on the turn is a good card unless he hasA-K of spades in his hand. When He has the Q or J of spades it will be possible to get him of the hand.The thing is not how much you should bet, the real question is if you are willing to stack of on a marginal hand.1;raise to 70-90 rearding how you have played untill now. I would bet around 90 to show my opponent the floptexture doesn't matter to me. If he folds... ok, if reraised I would push.2;Float, c/c the flop and when a (low) non spade falls I would bet 3/4 pot and hope he doesn't have J-J.3;I would have a very hard time to fold this hand on the flop or a non spade turn, unless I have a feeling he does have trip J's. With me the money would go in asap.These are hard spots to play out of position in a raised pot. Hope you have made the right play in hindsight.Jan^^^^^^ NOT THIS.Villain, if he's a strong player and he thinks hero is weak like hero thinks he does, will have made this raise with a wider range than JJ/QQ/AK....and our weak RR gives him a good price to call with much of that raising range. "Feelings" about an JJ on this flop and or turn are a bad use of your brain in this situation. We want to A. keep the pressure on the villain and not ourselves and B. try to make villain make the biggest mistake possible. We do that by reraising much more preflop, and then betting at least the pot on the flop. So many hands we have beat PF and on the flop will take the initiative away from us and put us in a tough spot if we let them (QQ/AsJx/AsK/10s10) to name some. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 FWIW my reraise size pf is to $62, the converter makes it look like 54 but its 54 on top of 8. That is on the bigger size of a 4bet pf OOP if stacks were 100bb deep. I think it's on the smaller side of bad for the stacks being 200bbs. It should be to $70 imo. That said, I don't think the $16 that would be in the middle, or the $8 bigger raise pf would change how we play the hand from flop on, or what villains calling ranges are pf. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Honestly I like threebetting smaller IP, but I think I like making it 70-75ish preflop since we're OOP.For the flop, the guy has a 6.6 AF? So that's basically like he's betting this flop 99% of the time if we check? Flop AF may be smaller, but I think I check/shove if that's the case. Link to post Share on other sites
JaNnN 0 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 ^^^^^^ NOT THIS.Yeah you're quite right. Just lost another thousand last night so what do I know...isap. If I were you guys I would put me on your buddylists Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Yeah you're quite right. Just lost another thousand last night so what do I know...isap. If I were you guys I would put me on your buddylists Sorry to hear it. Link to post Share on other sites
JaNnN 0 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Weeeeeee never mind, I made it all back plus some today taking a shot at the 5-10.See how my mood swings with bad or good days... Link to post Share on other sites
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