$10 Into $100,000

[JayKon 0]

Hi Danial,I was watching you the other day in the .10/.25 NL game on Stars and have a couple of questions.First, I asked the question online if you were playing Small-Ball. You replied that you were playing Huge-Ball, which sounded like a sarcastic response. My question was a serious one. From what I saw (about 90 hands), your playing looked more like a LAG that under-bet on the flop and was willing to stack-off with marginal hands. If this was almost anyone but you, I would have dismissed you and moved on. Since it is you, I'm thinking that there is something I don't understand, that is worth understanding.Second, on the second table you played that I watched (you busted the first and switched tables, rather than reloading), after basically doubling up, you left. Just before you left, you said something about having a short bankroll and not wanting to risk your entire stack.This confuses me. Everything I've learned has told me that I want the biggest stack at the table to maximize my EV. Still, I've been thinking about the people that stay at the table just for a shot at my stack and that maybe switching tables might be in my best interest. Still, I've done well mostly sticking with the common wisdom.Assuming you were serious, I would like to know some of your (expanded) thoughts behind it.Thank you in advance,Jay

[javi 0]

Playing LAG comes down to one thing, hand reading. Daniel is known for his hand reading abilities, and most skilled players could play a pretty LAG game at micro stakes if they wanted. Most tend to advise that you play tight and just let the fish pay you off when you finally hit, but this requires time and patience. If you can continue to outplay your opponents then you might as well take every edge you've got. You dont have to wait for AK if you know A9 will do. Daniel can simply get in there and play a lot more hands because he wont make as many mistakes as someone else would. If you read Daniel's rules for this challenge, part of it requires that he never risk too great a percentage of his bankroll at any given time. Remember, he's playing with 5 buyins. So the last thing he wants to do is get allin vs someone and lose not just 1 buyin, but lose 2 in a single hand. The only reason to have a full stack at the table is so you cover anyone whom you have an edge on. If some fish maniac keeps going allin with rags every hand, well you want to have as much money as he does sitting in front of you, so you can win his whole stack! If you were playing Daniel would you want to have a full stack? I know I wouldnt. You will often see players at higher limits not buyin for the max, because it's unlikely they will be winning a large majority of the time in an allin situation. Daniel has an edge on all the players sure, but suckouts and coolers do happen from time to time, so he needs to be able to bounce back without it crippling him.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Playing now, less than a buy in left to win before leaving micro limits!!!

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Saweet!!! Out of Micro Limits!!!

[spas_ivanov 0]

hello i have deposited twice on full tilt 50$ but lost it all because i didnt have proper bankroll management.And now won 7 dolars from bulgerians only freeroll in pokerstars and now have 130$ playng atm 0.10/0.20 limit and 0.5/0.10 no limit i played 5k hands do you have eny advice what games shold i play what limit and limit or no limit and with how much shold i buy full or half stack here is my stas http://www.pokertableratings.com/stars-pla...rch/spas_ivanov if can take a look thanks

[Cygie 0]

Saweet!!! Out of Micro Limits!!!

Wohoo! Congratulations Daniel! Nice!!Regards,Robin "Cygie" van Nooij

[squidboy 0]

are you using a spread sheet for this....if so can you post it

[MoikeA 0]

ahhhhhh can anyone inform me whats going on with or send me a link to the wsope 2009 final table???? i cant find it anywhere...........

[javi 0]

are you using a spread sheet for this....if so can you post it

Daniel updates the very first post in this thread with results. Just scroll to the bottom of his 1st post to see where he's at.. Looks like he's just using the stars internal hand counter. Daniel doesnt use HUD's or tracking software so it's all manual for him.

[moemtg 0]

Daniel updates the very first post in this thread with results. Just scroll to the bottom of his 1st post to see where he's at.. Looks like he's just using the stars internal hand counter. Daniel doesnt use HUD's or tracking software so it's all manual for him.

Sorry, but HUD's and card data miner's ARE LAME... may as well just add card counting into Blackjack with multi user's on a table IMHO. I have no problem with PokerTracker just to have a graph of my progression... but to use all that other crap and a HUD... go play bingo with the fishes at the fix limit table.Sorry I feel so strongly against them, but if you can't make reads and don't know a little bit advanced poker... try that before relying on a "crutch" like a HUD.My Two Cents,Moe.

[Guest MicroRoller]

I know others have made comments about how tough this might be considering the br mgmt strategy.I recently took a close look at the current results of Daniel Negreanu's bankroll challenge on my blog and it looks like variance is already starting to creep up on him.This is an interesting br mgmt approach and I'm interested to see if it works. I don't think it's for the average player but we're obviously not talking about an average player here.

[TomNotDwan 0]

Daniel at a table!!! Dose any one know why he got just 12 bucks?

[Balloon guy 158]

Daniel at a table!!! Dose any one know why he got just 12 bucks?

Cross booked Isuldur1?

[TomNotDwan 0]

welcome back to micro stakes, Daniel...

[Guest MicroRoller]

If you missed the action today I posted some Daniel Negreanu's key hands from today.I also posted some hands from last night's session this morning along with some commentary and hand analysis.If anyone is interested.

[stevel999 0]

Not long to go now. For what it is worth, no one on the planet would succeed with this challenge using this strategy.

[javi 0]

I've read some of your blog posts microroller, although they are a bit long winded and cover too many details to always maintain my interest. I still think it's hard for you to analyze Daniel's play since you are biased by results, as hard as you may try not to be. When you see him shove and lose with TT vs KK, it's easy to say "well obviously villain had a big hand". Cmon, this is Daniels we're talking about here. Regardless, I wonder if Daniel has been recording these sessions and commenting on them at pokervt. This minraise strategy of his, even UTG is rather interesting now that I think I know what he's doing. I once heard daniel comment on the micro stakes saying "people are calling or raising or folding regardless of your bet." So in a way, he's getting massive amounts of information for very cheap. I mean, the only reason to raise KK 4BB's UTG is because you expect worse hands to call. But it's doubtful worse hands will continue past the flop, except with the very worst of players. So lets say you raise 2BB's with KK, well if 2 people call, they were probably calling whether you made it 2 or 5 BB's. But with a small pot, you are likely to get the same EV, since they may be more inclined to call a flop bet, where as before they might just fold to your cbet. They see a turn card now, but that cant be too bad, and helps keep the pot within your control on particularly draw heavy flops. If someone flops a OESD or flush draw combo after calling a big preflop raise, they may just shove over any cbet looking to get their money in and gamble, perhaps even as a slight favorite. But if the pot is their stack to pot ratio is too large on the flop because you made a much smaller raise, shoving wouldnt make any sense. Instead they call, you continue to give them the same bad odds to chase their draw, but you dont lose control of the hand from an unexpected push. Furthermore, if you hold a hand like AK and get 3bet preflop after making it 4BB's, you are virtually committed to the hand regardless of board texture should you call, because you would have already invested 15-20BB's on your hand. This leaves room for almost zero postflop play. If this is Daniel's strategy I'm starting to think it's rather brilliant, although it requires significant hand reading abilities, something daniel is renowned for.

[JacquesG23 0]

He's getting his a$$ handed to him at this level. Down to $80. I doubt very highly he survives at this level. I think there needs to be a rule to jump back down a level to rebuild. He said that 500BB may not be enough at the higher levels. I think .25/.50 is where this requirement needed to be increased. You've got some better players in there at that level. I'm am interested to see what happens from here.Nice 50K win on the night at $100/$200 though!

[Guest MicroRoller]

I've read some of your blog posts microroller, although they are a bit long winded and cover too many details to always maintain my interest.

The type of analysis I did on DN's session is the same I do for my own. I'm probably more critical towards myself. At the tables you only have a few seconds to make decisions and I find it helps to review games in detail when I can take as much time as I need so the next time I'm in a similar situation I can make better decisions. Nobody knows who I am so I thought it would be cool to show that type of review for a player people care about. Brevity is not one of my strong points. I'm trying to work on that but the point of my blog is to share my thoughts and I tend to have a lot of them.

I still think it's hard for you to analyze Daniel's play since you are biased by results, as hard as you may try not to be.

You're wrong. (See not always long winded )

When you see him shove and lose with TT vs KK, it's easy to say "well obviously villain had a big hand". Cmon, this is Daniels we're talking about here.

then later you say...

I mean, the only reason to raise KK 4BB's UTG is because you expect worse hands to call. But it's doubtful worse hands will continue past the flop, except with the very worst of players.

Am I the only one that sees the irony in those two statements?

[javi 0]

The difference between what calls postflop is dependent upon your betsize. Considering daniel is only raising 1BB, he cant assume villain is always going to have TT beat preflop. (I cant remember, did that guy just flat with KK? Or 3bet and daniel called?) Regardless, I think it's safe to say daniel simply put villain on a draw/pair of 9's. Keep in mind, a lot of people are gunning for daniel, and try to make moves against him b/c they saw matt damon do it in rounders. They just want to be the guy that beats him this time, for the glory. So he probably out-levels himself in certain spots wondering if someone is just being a goofball idiot or not. I mean, I see him lose to 62o and other nonsense too. People are NL50 are still WAYYYY bad. Look at all the half stackers and people who arent buying in full. Some guy even minraises daniel right back preflop with what, 95s? Since he only plays like 50-100 hands at a time, thats barely enough time to get any read whatsoever.Anyway, as far as his bankroll goes, what he's doing is possible, although I think he'd be better off at 6max instead of FR. I think fewer players would actually produce less variance for him, rather than relying on hand strength at FR, at least if he's going to be minraising. The thing is, if you are going to play a hand like KK, all you have is one pair. One pair doesnt do so well OOP vs 6 callers. If he did this at 6max, he'd likely only ever get 1-2 callers max. Back in page 12 or something I actually tried this little BR challenge, just the way he does it. I started at NL25, and moved all the way up to NL600 in about a month. Then I cashed out half, moved to NL400 and didnt follow the buyin rule and ultimately lost it all. I have yet to try again, but one day I will. So I certainly think it's possible. The only problem for him right now is the fact that he's still adjusting to these stakes. Daniel hasnt had to play vs these types of players in a long time. Quite honestly, he's probably just not that great at it. I think he'd absolutely destroy NL200+.

[grindkid 0]

So, let me get this right. Move up limits when at 500bb allowing 5 buy ins at that level? So at .50/1 will require $500, 5 buy ins of $100 quitting the table if you double up?This is a great challenge, and hope u do well. I will follow similar guidlines through my cash play, i already quit when doubled to minimise risk of increased losses. Good luck and may see you at the tables

[Guest MicroRoller]

For those of you thinking of doing a similar bankroll challenge you might find this useful.I made my bankroll challenge spreadsheet available. Doesn't cost anything to use it, just need a google account.Tells you what stakes you should be playing, how much to buy-in for and allows you to publish your bankroll chart on your blog or forums.Also gives you some stats to let you know how you're doing. I tried to make it easy to fine tune so you can do an aggressive bankroll management strategy like DN if you want or a more conservative one.It should be pretty self explanatory but I couldn't resist posting long winded instructions in case anyone needed them

[mypoker 0]

Good luck with this DN!new Avenged Sevenfold songs

[Agent 008 0]

So... Now what happens?

[Pokerized 0]

Daniel is online at PS and playing low stakes for his bankroll challenge go and watch him if you like. There are too many idiots asking too many things from him Very funny like a comedy club