holdemlt 0 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Honestly, I think it will only take him 18 months max to accomplish this feat. On a personal note, I have started with nothing but a freeroll win on Bodog and ran it up to $3K in a month. And after a $2 freeroll place on FTP, it took me 3 months to run that up to $2K. And with all the .10 tourneys and micro limit cash games, this isn't just possible - it's very probable.This is very true. However the other truth is that -8 buyin streak isn't just possible - it's very probable too.One more thing I remember someone wrote here how important it's to watch the micro tables closely to figure out who's playing what. I didn't actually think that was true so much until I launched my HUD software for micros yesterday. It doubled my profits. I couldn't believe there are guys with 0% fold to flop bet (after 100+ hands), i just love them now!!! :-)These micros are so fun to make a few bucks when I'm too tired for MTT, or other normal poker. I guess one could beat them while sleep walking :-) Link to post Share on other sites
scootterxlch 0 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 OK guys i trust the people on the forum and i need some sound advice.I have been playing serous poker since the early nineties.My cash and live tournament record is strong and i feel comfortable with that arena. I want to kick it up a notch and start playing online much much more seriously. I play a fair amount but mostly it is recreation and i try a lot of stuff make a lil money and have fun.I realize that if i am going to compete against you all online pros that i need some advice.1. what software for tracking is used <is it needed>2. What are the pros and cons of HUD and how does it work.3. what are some expecations bb/100 that are realistic for online play or hourly win rates4. what are some benchmark win rates for mtts and sngs.5. What are some buy in requirments for online eve that are realistic. 6. when multitabling what are some reasonable techniques based onthe number of open tablesWhat i am trying to do is get a check list so that i can now start taking online as serious as i do live and be using the same tools as other online serious poker playersI recognize that it is a different arena and i do not want to donk of my bancroll treating online as i do live.Thanks for any and all input Link to post Share on other sites
DocHoliday 0 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Right place to seek advice - but wrong thread Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I wish Daniel luck. I'd be much more confident in his success if he would just double his bankroll requirements, but it's not like these rules are set in stone. He can change them as the situation dictates.I build up $1 into $3500 over a two year period or so, and I wasn't a good player through most of that.I'm rebuilding again after buying out my car lease (started back at $350) but mostly grinding sngs with very nitty bankroll requirements.I would love to take a shot at a similar challenge, but I couldn't imagine starting with anything less than $20.I think I have $3 on poker stars, so maybe I'll donate it to the cause. Link to post Share on other sites
BenW 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hi Daniel and everyoneI'm going to be doing much the same thing and would like to post my progress along the way. The major difference is I will be playing limit and starting with $200.I don't want to hijack this thread so I will start my own in another section of this site.Obviously it won't be as enjoyable for others to watch, as I'm a nobody in the world of poker compared to DN but I hope it's of some fun and possibly teach someone along the way Lets keep it fun and help poker grow!P.S I'll post the rules and other fun stuff when I start my $200 thread Link to post Share on other sites
BigMagic 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 My $3 dollar initial investment is now up to $33.54 after a little over a week. I did play a .25 SnG(90 players) and finished 5th for 1.54 otherwise its all been .1/.2 NL . I have found play to be slightly weaker in the a.m., my strategy is kind of simple and is a slow grind method. I only buy in for $1 and as soon as I double I change tables. My swings are mostly caused by calling down LAGS who sometimes get lucky. If a table is juicy I up my buyin to $5 often after I lost the first dollar just calling someone down to see what kind of hands they reraise with etc. It can be a worthwhile investment if it identifies a weak player. I feel like I need two bad players with at least $3 bucks each to justify the larger buyin. Its the slow way to go and I could do better just buying in for $5 and playing TAG but I like to call someone down I have a read on . If I'm right they often go on tilt and Donk off the rest of their buyin.(It makes me look Donkish which also can be beneficial)I cashed out at pokerstars some months back so I borrowed the $3 from my son's account to take on this challenge. I have paid him back so the $33.54 is all profit. I am playing for free. I don't know when to move up to .2/.5 I'm not sure $25 bucks is the right number I'd say more like $100 but I'd like to hear what some of your thoughts are? The highest level I have over 1k hands at online is only .10/.25 but I have made some decent change at that level. Bankroll tips Daniel? How about a month free on Poker VT for beating you to $30+ ?P.S. By the way Daniel several years ago in a different early incarnation of your site, I was a member. I emailed you about my son who is a huge fan. You sent an autographed picture which he still cherishes. He's 18 now and is quite the poker player. He has this tournament system he does well with he calls it .............Small Ball! Link to post Share on other sites
BenW 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 As mentioned before I didn't want to jack this thread so I created my own $200 to $100k at this link http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=132596 Please feel free to drop in. Link to post Share on other sites
holdemlt 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I wish Daniel luck. I'd be much more confident in his success if he would just double his bankroll requirements, but it's not like these rules are set in stone. He can change them as the situation dictates.Bankroll requirements ;-) I've made $50 from $10 in 4 sessions multi tabling 2NL 6-max till today when everything went wrong. Lost AA, then KK twice, then lost two flopped set's, then other overpairs to some air hitting trips to the river, add AK hitting A and losing to set/twopair, some missed draws. So it went down for about 20mins (multiple tables) and now i'm down 9 buyins from where i was 20 mins ago :-) I'm still a 14PTBB/100 winner, but the streak definitely freaks me out.The thing is that you have to play at these micros. You cannot fold your TPTK just because someone bets big or seems to make a sneaky move like indicating a set. All such clever guesses are 80% wrong at micros, so I just blind fold my eyes, bring out my balls to the table and play :-) Sometimes you lose a lot (relatively), sometimes you win even more. The key is to have lot of buyins to compensate for bad streaks. And i mean really lots, like 30-50, or even more if you want to sleep well ;-) I used to think 20-25 would be enough, and now after playing these micros by myself I don't actually think that's true, at least not if you want to really keep up with your best play at any of the bad streaks. Link to post Share on other sites
BigMagic 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I agree with the more buyins theory. Thats why I buyin short(50bb) the swings don't dent the bankroll as much. The better I play and the better read I have the easier it is. You have to keep playing sometimes even when your down a few buyins in a session. The same guys who cracked your AA or KK will give it back many times over if they stay at a table. I don't stay at a table unless I think I can outplay two or more players. Sitting at a table with a bunch of regulars gets ya nowhere. You can still win but the winrate goes down. Link to post Share on other sites
DocHoliday 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 You want to make some money on lowest limits???Forget Hold'em - Play Omaha - seriously, people at the very lowest limits have no clue what they are doing (I believe some don't even know what they are holding). Link to post Share on other sites
scootterxlch 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i just moved my question to the general strategy thread thanks for all the input and keeop it coming Link to post Share on other sites
thc1967 0 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 When I had a spare moment today I made a quick calculation to work out how many hands it would take to get to $100,000 starting from $10 using Daniel's rules.The answer? If he won at an average of 5bb/100 hands, it would take just over 90,000 hands. If he won at an average of 10BB/100 hands, obviously it would take half that number. For a multi-tabler, 90,000 hands is nothing, but for a single tabler (can anyone confirm that DN is just playing one table?... I can't imagine he plays more than 2 anyway) that is a lot of hands. This of course ignores his main obstacle that I have mentioned before; variance will kill anyone who is only playing with 5 buy-ins. Unless he runs like a God, he will not get passed 10c/25c NL.I think your math is off. Way off. I'm doing this myself, having started from about $12 on the .02 tables. I'm ~30,000 hands in and running at over 25bb/100 and I just got my roll big enough to play the .10 tables (using bankroll management that will prevent expected variance from busting me, of course).No way this works out to $100,000 in 90,000 hands.Edit:My stats:.01/.02 NL13,603 hands+$108.2539.79 BB/100.02/.05 NL14,790 hands+172.8523.37 BB/100By my calculations DN would need 175,333 hands if he follows the rules at the top of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
mase_gotsem 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Multitable !!!practice 2 tbles now then maybe when u learn too 8 table you cut your goal time down 1600 hands to move up levels ypu can do that in 1 day 3 tbling for an hour or 4 Link to post Share on other sites
pokerviper 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 GL on this challange and i hope i catch you at the tables soon to donate LOL J/k Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is my new peak up $7.02. $8 and I'm headed on up :-) Link to post Share on other sites
donkeypunch 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is my new peak up $7.02. $8 and I'm headed on up :-)Gosh, I wish there was a way we could have an idea as to what table you might show up at; just to have a fighting chance for grabbing a spot to duke it out with you. Haha. Best of luck for the next $8! BTW, are you only playing no-limit games in this endeavor? Link to post Share on other sites
BigMagic 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ok, my bankroll doubled tonight! I wish I could say it was because of my skill but I got very lucky. I was treading water up and down at .1/.2 so I said what he heck and bought in the 25NL game(my favorite level so far). On the first rotation I picked up sevens hit a set against Qs and doubled up. Bankroll now at $51 dollars. I know I could have lost it all. But it seems there are fewer donkeys at 25NL. Good Luck All! (except against me)P.S. What level should I play now? Link to post Share on other sites
stevel999 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I think your math is off. Way off. I'm doing this myself, having started from about $12 on the .02 tables. I'm ~30,000 hands in and running at over 25bb/100 and I just got my roll big enough to play the .10 tables (using bankroll management that will prevent expected variance from busting me, of course).No way this works out to $100,000 in 90,000 hands.My stats:.01/.02 NL13,603 hands+$108.2539.79 BB/100.02/.05 NL14,790 hands+172.8523.37 BB/100By my calculations DN would need 175,333 hands if he follows the rules at the top of this thread.Firstly, congrats on your outstanding win-rate over 28,000 hands. This is of course unsustainable, even at these levels. Impress me when you have played 100,000 hands at 10/25c NL or 25c/50c NL.When I get a spare moment I will redo my maths but I am willing to concede that I may have miscalculated. But your result just reinforces my point...that a lot of hands will need to be played to achieve the target.So far in 2 weeks, Daniel has played 668 hands (updated today so probably accurate). If you are correct, it will take him 11 years to achieve the target!!!!!!! Pick it up Daniel.... at least try multitabling.http://blindtilt.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
stevel999 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Ok, my bankroll doubled tonight! I wish I could say it was because of my skill but I got very lucky. I was treading water up and down at .1/.2 so I said what he heck and bought in the 25NL game(my favorite level so far). On the first rotation I picked up sevens hit a set against Qs and doubled up. Bankroll now at $51 dollars. I know I could have lost it all. But it seems there are fewer donkeys at 25NL. Good Luck All! (except against me)P.S. What level should I play now?LOL....so now that you have had a win at 25NL, with $51 you should move to.....ummmm........well 1c/2c NL!! Even at 2c/5c you only have 10 buyins. The variance Gods will get you at some stage with only 10 buy-ins. Just had a look at my stats for 2008...the biggest downswing I had was 14 buyins, and I also had another seperate downswing of 13 buyins. This year...so far so good with only a 2 buyin downswing. Link to post Share on other sites
stevel999 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 This is my new peak up $7.02. $8 and I'm headed on up :-)Looking forward to seeing you at 10c/25c NL or 25c/50c NL sometime in the future Daniel. Despite my other posts on this topic, I am hoping you succeed....it will only prove you are a God.http://blindtilt.com/ Link to post Share on other sites
loogie 115 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I know I could have lost it all. But it seems there are fewer donkeys at 25NL.What's a donkey? Please explain. Link to post Share on other sites
aucu 3 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Interesting but I can't see you doing this with such low hand volume.This has only been one table at a time, when do you plan on opening a second or third, would this change your BR requirements? Link to post Share on other sites
thc1967 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Firstly, congrats on your outstanding win-rate over 28,000 hands. This is of course unsustainable, even at these levels. Impress me when you have played 100,000 hands at 10/25c NL or 25c/50c NL.When I get a spare moment I will redo my maths but I am willing to concede that I may have miscalculated. But your result just reinforces my point...that a lot of hands will need to be played to achieve the target.So far in 2 weeks, Daniel has played 668 hands (updated today so probably accurate). If you are correct, it will take him 11 years to achieve the target!!!!!!! Pick it up Daniel.... at least try multitabling.http://blindtilt.com/ Yah, wasn't trying to brag just say by way of example. (I've played well over 300,000 hands of poker, am starting again, and I have a good idea whether or not 25+BB/100 is sustainable...)Anyway, here's how the maths break down at a 5bb/100 win rate and assuming he doesn't take a massive downswing due to variance (corrected my earlier miscalculation in the following):Blind .02, Start $10, End $25, Hands @ Lvl 15,000Blind .05, Start $25, End $50, Hands @ Lvl 10,000, Total Hands 25,000Blind .10, Start $50, End $125, Hands @ Lvl 15,000, Total Hands 40,000Blind .25, Start $125, End $250, Hands @ Lvl 10,000, Total Hands 50,000Blind .50, Start $250, End $500, Hands @ Lvl 10,000, Total Hands 60,000Blind 1.00, Start $500, End $1,000, Hands @ Lvl 10,000, Total Hands 70,000Blind 2.00, Start $1,000, End $2,000, Hands @ Lvl 10,000, Total Hands 80,000Blind 4.00, Start $2,000, End $3,000, Hands @ Lvl 5,000, Total Hands 85,000Blind 6.00, Start $3,000, End $10,000 (this is where he ups his BR req), Hands @ Lvl 108,333, Total Hands 108,333Blind 10.00, Start $10,000, End $20,000, Hands @ Lvl 20,000, Total Hands 128,333Blind 20.00, Start $20,000, End $50,000, Hands @ Lvl 30,000, Total Hands 158,333Blind 50.00, Start $50,000, End $100,000, Hands @ Lvl 20,000, Total Hands 178,333Done. Link to post Share on other sites
Cone 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 He's doing well at the moment, up like $2 after 15 mins.Must be close to the next level now. Link to post Share on other sites
nutzbuster 7 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Jesus.I casually watched about 10 minutes of this tonight. Pure agony.Props DN. I would have stabed my eyes out by now. And the chat railers, omfg....kill them all.Good luck keeping your sanity. Link to post Share on other sites
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