2008 Results

[Mr. Sparco 2]

Online:I started playing online more seriously (though still quite low volume) in August. Results since then:

• Moved up in limits from $5 SNGs to $16.50 SNGs.
• Moved up in limits from $5 agv buyin MTTs to $22 ones.
• Made my first two final tables in big MTTs, both times a $8 tourney with about 1000 players, came 3rd in both.
• Bankroll: from $200 to $2000.

Live:I lived in three different countries during the past year, so I was only able to play live during three brief periods. Nevertheless, I feel 2008 was the year when I finally started to understand live poker.

• Made about about €4,000 in 5/5 NLH cash games
• Came 3rd in an 80-man €200 freezeout for €1,760
• Came 1st in a 64-man €100 freezeout for €2,254
• Came 1st in an 80-man €50 rebuy for €5,122
• Bankroll: from €2,000 to €12,500.

[dtblizz 0]

6 max - 50/100/200nlHU - 50/100/200nl

[dtblizz 0]

6 max - 50/100/200nlHU - 50/100/200nl

hu experiment faiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil

[Balloon guy 158]

Made an extra $52 last night playing $1/$2 Limit

[Acid_Knight 2]

LOL. This came up a while back and actually Sean's post referenced it cause it was with me and Jordan. HU people play way less tables which = higher win rates. And just in general getting to pick who you play against at all times = higher win rates. Completely different games. Having said that, Tre, Jordan, Matt, Zach are all sickos so I'm not taking anything away from them at all. You just can't really compare 6 max people to HU. All that matters in the end is that all of us are making lots of money and from the looks of this thread I am really happy for quite a few people.

This.Congrats FCP!

[Jupiter 0]

given that I was on a poker break during most of 07 and didn't really play Aug-Dec 08plus I'm a micro donkstill managed to make about 1k [mostly mtts], and improved a fair bit my other games

[TeeSludge 0]

Nice year Tre.

you too.. agree completely on the HU vs 6max points as well and I must say that your work ethic inspires me to put in as many hands as possible. TY

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

I have a late breaking 2008 result to share.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I have a late breaking 2008 result to share.

Is that a beat or a brag?Congrats

[El Guapo 8]

I have a question for Rdog, Tre, Jordan, etc.You guys seem like you are all putting in a ton of hands at anywhere from .50/1.00 up to an occasional 10/20.This seems like true grinding to me, especially Rdog. Doesn't this get old after awhile and is there a point where you would rather play a couple hundred hands a day at 10/20 to 25/50 NL even if you have the same overall income and not pound the mouse so much?BTW, albeit rare, this is actually a serious question.

[Giggidy 0]

Gratz Unlucky Gratz Mike!

[merricksprayers13 0]

this is a joke account of a limit hold em player on this site who wouldn't be too hard to figure out. i think i win the award for "lazy balla."i also made about 15K in incentives.edit: oh yeah, i think another 10-20k on my laptop too. not sure.second edit: hem on this desktop

[Vtlaxer09 4]

I have a question for Rdog, Tre, Jordan, etc.You guys seem like you are all putting in a ton of hands at anywhere from .50/1.00 up to an occasional 10/20.This seems like true grinding to me, especially Rdog. Doesn't this get old after awhile and is there a point where you would rather play a couple hundred hands a day at 10/20 to 25/50 NL even if you have the same overall income and not pound the mouse so much?BTW, albeit rare, this is actually a serious question.

i cant really speak for them.. but I know that the swings at 5/10+ can sometimes be really mentally draining/exhausting and it can really affect your play. The level of play, although there are still fish, is probably another factor. a 10 bi swing at 200nl is 2,000$. at 25/50... its a down payment on a house.

[RDog 0]

I have a question for Rdog, Tre, Jordan, etc.You guys seem like you are all putting in a ton of hands at anywhere from .50/1.00 up to an occasional 10/20.This seems like true grinding to me, especially Rdog. Doesn't this get old after awhile and is there a point where you would rather play a couple hundred hands a day at 10/20 to 25/50 NL even if you have the same overall income and not pound the mouse so much?BTW, albeit rare, this is actually a serious question.

Jesse and I had this discussion last night in looking at some of the graphs on 2+2 where we had similar results to people playing much higher stakes. Although we may have to put in more hours than someone making the same, it is much less stressful. Your post also makes the assumption that I could sit in a 10/20 and 25/50 game and be +EV and I don't think that is going to be true in most lineups. Also, keep in mind, I 8 tabled most of the year and then the last few months was playing 11 tables a lot of the time. That's not to say that we won't start playing a little bit higher limits this year but it isn't going to be so I can spend less time playing poker, it is going to be to make more money. Everyone talks about my work ethic, etc but in my first full year playing poker full time I still put in waaaaaaaaay less hours than I did at my previous job for more money.

[RDog 0]

i cant really speak for them.. but I know that the swings at 5/10+ can sometimes be really mentally draining/exhausting and it can really affect your play. The level of play, although there are still fish, is probably another factor. a 10 bi swing at 200nl is 2,000$. at 25/50... its a down payment on a house.

Oh yeah, this also. The mental side of losing as much money in a day as you can at those limits isn't something I look forward to.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Jesse and I had this discussion last night in looking at some of the graphs on 2+2 where we had similar results to people playing much higher stakes. Although we may have to put in more hours than someone making the same, it is much less stressful. Your post also makes the assumption that I could sit in a 10/20 and 25/50 game and be +EV and I don't think that is going to be true in most lineups. Also, keep in mind, I 8 tabled most of the year and then the last few months was playing 11 tables a lot of the time. That's not to say that we won't start playing a little bit higher limits this year but it isn't going to be so I can spend less time playing poker, it is going to be to make more money. Everyone talks about my work ethic, etc but I still put in waaaaaaaaay less hours than I did at my previous job for more money.

I was gonna say.Old job: $30/hr (plus benefits)Poker: $150/hr (and I started off the year playing 1/2 of the hands at much lower stakes so my real rate is probably close to $200+ per hour)It's really not even that close. I spent about 650 hours this year playing online poker, which is about 13 hours a week and is 1/3 of what people spend at a typical job. Rdog is 110% right about the less stress part and also that just because we make so much $$, doesn't mean we could beat higher stakes effectively.

[El Guapo 8]

I was gonna say.Old job: $30/hr (plus benefits)Poker: $150/hr (and I started off the year playing 1/2 of the hands at much lower stakes so my real rate is probably close to $200+ per hour)It's really not even that close. I spent about 650 hours this year playing online poker, which is about 13 hours a week and is 1/3 of what people spend at a typical job. Rdog is 110% right about the less stress part and also that just because we make so much $$, doesn't mean we could beat higher stakes effectively.

Ok so clarify a couple things here for me if you don't mind.1. Even 8 tabling how could close to a million hands in a year not be like 80 hours a week?2. This one is to you specifically. I have read your strat posts, and besides Cobalt you are the only one I have seen in the NL section that seem to continuously be spot on analysis wise. If that is the case, why do you think you could not beat 10/20 or up? Is there too much gamble at those levels. Is the fact that the higher level thinking to reshove A- Rag even if they think you have a mid pair to get you to fold, or something along those lines?

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Ok so clarify a couple things here for me if you don't mind.1. Even 8 tabling how could close to a million hands in a year not be like 80 hours a week?2. This one is to you specifically. I have read your strat posts, and besides Cobalt you are the only one I have seen in the NL section that seem to continuously be spot on analysis wise. If that is the case, why do you think you could not beat 10/20 or up? Is there too much gamble at those levels. Is the fact that the higher level thinking to reshove A- Rag even if they think you have a mid pair to get you to fold, or something along those lines?

as to point 2, i think what you're missing is that the fish per capita goes down significantly the higher you go. i've watched matt play plenty and his table selection is one of the many things that he does well. you can't do much table selecting when you get to 10-20 because maybe 3-5 games are ever going at a time, and as soon as a known fish sits, there is a 10 person waiting list. basically, why deal with fighting tables of predominately good players or playing other good HU players when you have relative freedom to pick and choose which player worse than you you want to play with?

[Acid_Knight 2]

Ok so clarify a couple things here for me if you don't mind.1. Even 8 tabling how could close to a million hands in a year not be like 80 hours a week?2. This one is to you specifically. I have read your strat posts, and besides Cobalt you are the only one I have seen in the NL section that seem to continuously be spot on analysis wise. If that is the case, why do you think you could not beat 10/20 or up? Is there too much gamble at those levels. Is the fact that the higher level thinking to reshove A- Rag even if they think you have a mid pair to get you to fold, or something along those lines?

1. I play heads up and I could never approach 1 million hands. I'm 99.9% sure that rdog could tell you exactly how many hours he spent playing poker this year online because pokertracker keeps that information for you. I guarantee it's not as many hours as you think it is.2. It's not a matter of just beating the games. Could I beat 10/20 HU? Probably, but the profitability for me at those limits in terms of BB/100 is probably 1/3 or worse of what I'm doing now, if I had to guess. Is there much of a reason for me to play it right now? No. The required bankroll for something like that is more than tenfold what I currently have. The swings would be huge because it would be much much harder to find the weaker players that I'm able to find at 1/2 and 2/4.As for 6m, I probably could not beat 10/20 basically ever. My style is not well suited to 6m and although I am able to correctly analyze most poker situations fairly well, that doesn't automatically translate into being able to beat any game that I want to sit in.It's about game selection and knowing what I'm good at. The 10/20 NL regs are really good at what they do. Put them in a HU game and I'd likely destroy them. Put me in their game, and I'm gonna bleed off money because I'm not gonna make as many correct decisions as they well.

[ROACHBABY 0]

I don't usually post results, but maybe it will help motivate me for next year.In 2008 I made just over $8,300, almost all of which was from online play. I bought PT last November and started focusing on online cash games. I set my goal for $5,000 (maybe a little low), so I am happy overall. Though, it would've been nice to hit the 5-figure mark. I did almost double my previous best year though so I cannot complain. 50 NL Graph: 100 NL Graph:All Holdem Games 2008:

[RDog 0]

Ok so clarify a couple things here for me if you don't mind.1. Even 8 tabling how could close to a million hands in a year not be like 80 hours a week?2. This one is to you specifically. I have read your strat posts, and besides Cobalt you are the only one I have seen in the NL section that seem to continuously be spot on analysis wise. If that is the case, why do you think you could not beat 10/20 or up? Is there too much gamble at those levels. Is the fact that the higher level thinking to reshove A- Rag even if they think you have a mid pair to get you to fold, or something along those lines?

Of actual poker hours I played 1335 hours this year. That averages out to about 26 weekly. Add in maybe 10 a week of reviewing hands, watching videos, some live play, etc. and it is still less than 40 hours a week. And I am pretty sure I put in more time than anyone in the Challenge Thread and probably just about anyone on this forum.

[El Guapo 8]

Thanks guys. Keep this info coming, this is turning into a pretty informational thread.Another question. If there are no fish at 10/20 - 25/50 how are guys making money there? Aren't they just trading it around? From your analysis, it seems like this is much different than at a casino where a tourist might sit with 5K in a 10-20 game, or a rich whale might head to Bobby's room or something like that.Or is from 2/4 guys taking shots, and doing poorly at it?

[rdtedm 0]

This thread, as guapo said, is pure gold.

[tskillz187 0]

Or is from 2/4 guys taking shots, and doing poorly at it?

This mostly, but it's not neccesarily poorly. Whenever you want to move up there is a big learning curve. Also, there are regs at every level it doesn't mean every reg is equal. Good regs can still make money off less good regs, then less good regs go down to 5-10/3-6/2-4 make money off those people move up and repeat process til they become one of the better regs at 10-20 or stay down to a level they can beat.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

This mostly, but it's not neccesarily poorly. Whenever you want to move up there is a big learning curve. Also, there are regs at every level it doesn't mean every reg is equal. Good regs can still make money off less good regs, then less good regs go down to 5-10/3-6/2-4 make money off those people move up and repeat process til they become one of the better regs at 10-20 or stay down to a level they can beat.

Also don't forget people who are good at one game but take shots at another.Tourney donk hits a nice score in a tourney and takes a shot at NL cash. Tourney winners have historically fed high limit cash games both online and live.In my limit holdem games it's great when NL cash players branch out and try limit out as eventhough they are solid at their game they may not be very good at other games since they lack experience.