**the Official "toronto Maple Leafs Suck" Thread**

[gruven 530]

You arent biased at all...Any excuse to rip the Leafs and Ron Wilson you will jump at the chance..Wilson is one of the best coaches in league history.

Based on what? Is Gustavsson/Toskala the 30th worst goalie in the NHL? Is the leafs Defense the 30th worst defense in the NHL? At what point does the coach become accountable for PK? After all, PK is very much strategy....And, I think if you check, my last 20 or so posts about the leafs have all been positive.....

[serge 904]

Based on what? Is Gustavsson/Toskala the 30th worst goalie in the NHL? Is the leafs Defense the 30th worst defense in the NHL? At what point does the coach become accountable for PK? After all, PK is very much strategy....And, I think if you check, my last 20 or so posts about the leafs have all been positive.....

I will argue that PK isnt really strategy at all....another time as I have to go now

[dEv~ 19]

FYI Crosby now has scored 30 points (12g/18a) in 19 career games against the leafs...ouch.

[PhilBluff 0]

FYI Crosby now has scored 30 points (12g/18a) in 19 career games against the leafs...ouch.

Malkin has 34 pts in 15 games against the Leafs

[bdc30 0]

FYI Crosby now has scored 30 points (12g/18a) in 19 career games against the leafs...ouch.

Malkin has 34 pts in 15 games against the Leafs

and I'm sure according to serge, neither of these facts has anything to do with coaching or strategy either.

[Zach6668 513]

I wonder what the Leafs record is against the Pens in that time. They actually always seem to play the Pens really hard. We've had a couple embarrassing losses against the Leafs over the last few seasons.

[00Lenny 0]

I gotta dive in and help poor serge out here, because the rest of leafs nation is too busy jumping on and off the bandwagon (AKA The Kessel Vessel) with each win or loss. Ron Wilson isn't to blame, he has a brutal goalie who thinks he is a starter and a goalie who has had two heart procedures in the past 3 months. He has a bunch of underachieving defencemen (Kaberle and White aside). He has 4 full foward lines of 3rd and 4th liners, and he has Phil Kessel.I do fault him for reaming Kessel out though. Can't blame Phil for not giving 100% any more when his linemates suck (relative to ANY other team's 1st line). PK is actually pretty simple and not really strategy-oriented at all, considering most teams use one of two power play setups, and it's usually obvious which players they want shooting on their PP (the Ovies/Malkins/Kovalchuks etc)

[Speed Limit 0]

Hey Lenny, can I call you Len?

[gruven 530]

I gotta dive in and help poor serge out here, because the rest of leafs nation is too busy jumping on and off the bandwagon (AKA The Kessel Vessel) with each win or loss. Ron Wilson isn't to blame, he has a brutal goalie who thinks he is a starter and a goalie who has had two heart procedures in the past 3 months. He has a bunch of underachieving defencemen (Kaberle and White aside). He has 4 full foward lines of 3rd and 4th liners, and he has Phil Kessel.I do fault him for reaming Kessel out though. Can't blame Phil for not giving 100% any more when his linemates suck (relative to ANY other team's 1st line). PK is actually pretty simple and not really strategy-oriented at all, considering most teams use one of two power play setups, and it's usually obvious which players they want shooting on their PP (the Ovies/Malkins/Kovalchuks etc)

Really? So which one of these two setups?-Box-high umbrella-low umbrella-high pressure-collapse-puck pursuit-passive pursuit-cycle pressure-full rotation-zone coverage

[mrdannyg 274]

Really? So which one of these two setups?-Box-high umbrella-low umbrella-high pressure-collapse-puck pursuit-passive pursuit-cycle pressure-full rotation-zone coverage

Doesn't matter. Every team has Ovechkin, Malkin or Kovalchuk and that's where the shot is coming from anyway.

[gruven 530]

Doesn't matter. Every team has Ovechkin, Malkin or Kovalchuk and that's where the shot is coming from anyway.

LOL

[00Lenny 0]

Hey Lenny, can I call you Len?

Absolutely. Name is actually Carl, but I'm a white guy, and according to the Simpsons, Carl=black and Lenny=white, so a couple of my buddies called me Lenny one day and it kinda stuck

[00Lenny 0]

Really? So which one of these two setups?-Box-high umbrella-low umbrella-high pressure-collapse-puck pursuit-passive pursuit-cycle pressure-full rotation-zone coverage

Well, as far as I know, only two of those are actually powerplay setups, the rest are penalty-killing setups. Regardless, most team's powerplays (which ARE strategic) use a 1-2-2 or 2-2-1 umbrella (high/low) in some form. The shooters will move up or down to open up seams but it's roughly the same setup. And as for setup on a PK, every team uses the box. Or diamond sometimes, which is a sideways box. From there, it's basically up to the players. Sure you can tell them how aggressive or passive to be, what to do when the shot comes, but the best penalty killers in the league aren't the best because they're coached that much better than the rest. Mike Richards, Datsyuk and Zetterberg all come to mind (Although Babcock IS a great coach too).

[serge 904]

Well, as far as I know, only two of those are actually powerplay setups, the rest are penalty-killing setups. Regardless, most team's powerplays (which ARE strategic) use a 1-2-2 or 2-2-1 umbrella (high/low) in some form. The shooters will move up or down to open up seams but it's roughly the same setup. And as for setup on a PK, every team uses the box. Or diamond sometimes, which is a sideways box. From there, it's basically up to the players. Sure you can tell them how aggressive or passive to be, what to do when the shot comes, but the best penalty killers in the league aren't the best because they're coached that much better than the rest. Mike Richards, Datsyuk and Zetterberg all come to mind (Although Babcock IS a great coach too).

Please post more..We need good leaf fans like you around here..But in the leafs thread, as this is for losers.

[gruven 530]

Well, as far as I know, only two of those are actually powerplay setups, the rest are penalty-killing setups. Regardless, most team's powerplays (which ARE strategic) use a 1-2-2 or 2-2-1 umbrella (high/low) in some form. The shooters will move up or down to open up seams but it's roughly the same setup. And as for setup on a PK, every team uses the box. Or diamond sometimes, which is a sideways box. From there, it's basically up to the players. Sure you can tell them how aggressive or passive to be, what to do when the shot comes, but the best penalty killers in the league aren't the best because they're coached that much better than the rest. Mike Richards, Datsyuk and Zetterberg all come to mind (Although Babcock IS a great coach too).

Great post.... I both agree and disagree with you. For sure, instincts on the PK are the best asset you have, and completely irrelevant to the coach. However, the aggressiveness, or passiveness on the PK are all up to the coach. And a lot of teams now are switching to a rolling umbrella (it used to be called the soft box...TEE HEE), where the box bulges up top or caves down below, with a more passive puck pursuit, and more emphasis on collapse. Whether you pursue the puck below the redline, whether you want your D to pin or not, whether you want to be hard on the shooter, or take away the lanes, are all coaching decisions, as well as the personnel out there. And when your PK is blowing goats in record numbers, and YOU AREN'T CHANGING ANYTHING, then I think a lot of blame has to lie on the coach. Wilson has made virtually no adjustments on their PK, and I've been watching...

[00Lenny 0]

Great post.... I both agree and disagree with you. For sure, instincts on the PK are the best asset you have, and completely irrelevant to the coach. However, the aggressiveness, or passiveness on the PK are all up to the coach. And a lot of teams now are switching to a rolling umbrella (it used to be called the soft box...TEE HEE), where the box bulges up top or caves down below, with a more passive puck pursuit, and more emphasis on collapse. Whether you pursue the puck below the redline, whether you want your D to pin or not, whether you want to be hard on the shooter, or take away the lanes, are all coaching decisions, as well as the personnel out there. And when your PK is blowing goats in record numbers, and YOU AREN'T CHANGING ANYTHING, then I think a lot of blame has to lie on the coach. Wilson has made virtually no adjustments on their PK, and I've been watching...

Yeah, the brutal PK being stagnant is tough to find an excuse for (Staal just scored ,) although again, I can't help but cut Wilson a BIT of slack. His defence are playing well below what they're capable of, Schenn in particular, although I forgive him too because expectations were and continue to be HUGELY unrealistic for him. Who is our#1 penalty killer up front? Stajan probably? That's a tough situation for ANY coach. And the leafs tie it up within one post! (Great work by Stempniak) I dunno, I try to keep faith in Burkie at least, I know he isn't sitting on his hands with his thumbs up.PS Serge: I've been trolling all the forums (hockey in particular) for some time now, eventually came out from under the bridge for the poker forums, but I'll be swinging by the REAL leafs thread regularly too I start and end every day by watching the Wendel Clark All Heart videoPPS Serge: www.downgoesbrown.com GREAT leafs blog

[Zach6668 513]

I love DGB, but Serge hates it because they have the ability to find humour in themselves and their favorite team.

[00Lenny 0]

Really? Man, DGB has to be one of the most die-hard Leaf fans ever. As pessimistic as he seems at times, it's clear that the guy bleeds blue and white until the day he dies. The Brian Burke twitter page had me in tears of laughter for quite a while, heh.

[serge 904]

I love DGB, but Serge hates it because they have the ability to find humour in themselves and their favorite team.

i never said i hated DGB..I hated that tacky video

[00Lenny 0]

Well of course it's tacky, the guy pieced it together from 50+ old VHS tapes that he bought off ebay I can't help but love it though, Wendel is probably my all-time favourite player with the possible exception of Yzerman, so I'm a touch biased. And by that, I mean I'm entirely biased.

[Zach6668 513]

No, Serge meant the DGB + Bloge Salming video with Ron Wilson giving out Xmas presents.

[serge 904]

Well of course it's tacky, the guy pieced it together from 50+ old VHS tapes that he bought off ebay I can't help but love it though, Wendel is probably my all-time favourite player with the possible exception of Yzerman, so I'm a touch biased. And by that, I mean I'm entirely biased.

ya what Zach said..I love that Wendel video

[00Lenny 0]

Ah yeah, those Bloge Salming videos can be a bit much. The only one that REALLY made me laugh was the Leafs/Bruins recap one a month or two ago after we got pasted by the Bruins 8-1 or 8-2 or whatever.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Third worst PK in the history of the NHL...ahead of only two teams in the league and those two teams have games in hand...already traded away their first round draft pick...wow!This team sucks so much I don't think the word "sucks" is accurate anymore.

[mrdannyg 274]

Third worst PK in the history of the NHL...ahead of only two teams in the league and those two teams have games in hand...already traded away their first round draft pick...wow!This team sucks so much I don't think the word "sucks" is accurate anymore.

If our first this year turns into Hall/Fowler/Seguin, that is just f'ing disgusting. I don't know what else to say.