nl strategy

[justblaze 0]

EQUITY EDGE. that is all you need to raise PF. You dont think you had an edge here?

[Forbidden Void 0]

Maybe I'm still too ingrained in my old school limit poker ways. I just don't see what stepping on a pot I should have had zero chance of losing accomplishes. Sure, he gets out in this situation, but I think more often than not he's NOT going to have QJ suited here. In which case, I win an overwhelming majority of the time after the river.LOL... I do hope for him to be in that situation calling almost with a dead draw.I don't hope for him to catch his crap.Which is why I'm ticked about this hand.Options = 1. he folds the hand, I win. 2. he stays, and catches craziness on the turn and river, I lose. Question was, "It happens. How do I lose less when it does?"

[guinevar 0]

Maybe I'm still too ingrained in my old school limit poker ways.  I just don't see what stepping on a pot I should have had zero chance of losing accomplishes.  Sure, he gets out in this situation, but I think more often than not he's NOT going to have QJ suited here.  In which case, I win an overwhelming majority of the time after the river.LOL... I do hope for him to be in that situation calling almost with a dead draw.I don't hope for him to catch his crap.Which is why I'm ticked about this hand.

So if you're an overwhelming majority to win, why not bet more? This isn't limit poker you were playing anyhow. Stomping the pot wins it when he hasn't made his draw. 100% chance of winning is better than 83%.

[Forbidden Void 0]

Point.Heh. Maybe I should just go back to grinding 10/20 limit.

[Sick Daddy 0]

Question was, "It happens. How do I lose less when it does?"

Bet more to drive him out, winning the pot, or bet less and let him catch for free.If you play this scenario to the end of the turn, 9 out of 10 you win. you may lose $80 the one time, but you win $80 9 times.(numbers made up to make me appear smart )

[justblaze 0]

Point.Heh.  Maybe I should just go back to grinding 10/20 limit.

uhh, you moved from 10-20 limit to 1-2 NL? seems like a step backwards.

[Forbidden Void 0]

I've never played a NL cash game, so I wanted to start small.It's easier for me to put up 200 for this game than the 500 I usually play with at 10/20.

[NickTheKid 0]

This is the smasheroo meathod, it works for stuff such as 25$ N/L games.Only play Ax SUTIED and pocket pairs, ONLY LIMP WITH THEM, if you hit a draw or a set, bet large.If you hit AA or KK, push right away no matter what.

[quickstilz 0]

I think there is some general confusion as to how powerful a starting hand AK really is.I do NOT want to get into a heads up match with someone preflop with this hand.

Yes you do. This is no-limit.

Personally, I raised 4x the BB preflop. So what if I raise to 6x the BB. or 8x to get out that person that calls with JQ? The problem you run into there is now you have invested more money on a heads up play than this hand is worth. My odds of hitting a pair on the flop are what? 50%

Raising 6x BB or 8x BB is a bad play if you're not playing the player but the cards. Also, hitting a pair on the flop is about 30% (though I might be incorrect).

What do I bet then, from the BB on a flop of Q96 rainbow? Sure if I hit I bet, and a smaller PP folds.

Yes, you should bet about 2/3 of the pot. This is no-limit. From your opponent's point of view, you may have AA, KK, AQ, or even JJ, 1010.

Most players won't call Ax for more than 4x the BB, so I lose my chance to milk them.

You cannot milk your opponent in no-limit unless you know your opponent very well or you have better than TPTK.

The point I think here is that with AKs I WANT people to stay in.

Pre-flop yes. But after that flop, it's better to have 1 opponent.

I would have thought that an 8x BB raise on the flop said I had something. This guy was down two cards... His call was worse than anything I did. He didn't reraise after any of my bets, so there's no way I can expect a steal. And I didn't raise on the river, and so saved myself from an embarrasing defeat at the hands of a flopped set.

It is better to explain in terms of pot-size, not xBB.

I guess I just want to know if anyone has effected a decent strategy to MINIMIZE losses on hands like this. This guy was in the hand. I guess I could have bet more after turn, but why? He wasn't raising, so the only thing I could guess from that is he was drawing for the same flush I was, or he had hit the Ace, in which case I still had him.

More aggression. And slow down on turn. If he bets out on the river, you're probably dead. A voice inside your head is saying, "but he was drawing ... I had him beat until the river." Yes you did, but the river plays.

If he wasn't looking for either of those things, he had a set, and I'm supposed to bet big on that because he might FOLD? A set? Right.

He won't fold. But you can if he shows more aggression that you have applied. This is no-limit. You lose your whole stack here. Not just a Big bet.I would like to comment on your other posts as well but no time. In short, the plays you did regarding the hand screams passiveness. Moreover, TPTK isn't quads. You can fold them. Below is what I would do and accept it if I get outdraw.Raise 4x BB ($8 ) preflop.SB bets $4. I would raise it to at least $20 (preferably $25) since the pot more than $32.Turn: This is subjective. You can check here. But from looking at the board, I'm afraid he might be on flush draw so I make him pay for it. A bet of $35 to $40. If he calls and comes out betting on the river, I know I am beat and can safely fold. If he draws and misses, he will likely check. If he bets big, I give him props for making a very bold move.River: you let him draw very cheaply and paid him off with a river call.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

You guys ever play with instincts?? Or on the pure knowledge of how other people play. There are situations where ill play a terrible hand if i know i can stab a pot or raise with a small ace and represent strength. Then again i dont play online much.

[MarionSauce 0]

You guys ever play with instincts?? Or on the pure knowledge of how other people play. There are situations where ill play a terrible hand if i know i can stab a pot or raise with a small ace and represent strength. Then again i dont play online much.

No, I only do those raisings with small aces with a short shortshort handed table. No.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

hey marion wanna play heads up for money. Live. Then ill take you out to dinner. With your money.wow what a guy

[fatmanonguitar 0]

You seem to contradict yourself in this thread. You intentionally bet low enough to string people along to the river because you "want callers" and then you complain about getting sucked out on the river. By the way you describe your game, you probably win very few pots without a showdown. That can't be profitable in No-Limit. Protect your TPTK by making draws expensive.

[ForbiddenVoid 0]

Like I said, this is probably an affect of only playing in limit cash games. I'm not used to cash games for NL, so thanks for the help.

[ldudeus 0]

BTW, regarding a much eralier post...the chances of hitting a pair on the flop with Ak is about 33% :-)

[ldudeus 0]

BTW, regarding a much eralier post...the chances of hitting a pair on the flop with Ak is about 33% :-)

[quickstilz 0]

You guys ever play with instincts?? Or on the pure knowledge of how other people play.

I wouldn't try playing on instincts online. It's much more profitable playing ABC poker and value-betting. Getting cute kills you.

There are situations where ill play a terrible hand if i know i can stab a pot or raise with a small ace and represent strength. Then again i dont play online much.

Before any action has taken place (assuming preflop), how do you know if you can stab at a pot? Let say you raise a small ace to represent strength and the flop comes out Ace x x. Now what? Isn't it the same idea if you raise with 2 7 offsuit? At least with 2 7o, you're willing to go all the way if you're bluffing whereas with a weak ace, you have to fold when there's too much aggression.Lastly, online is ABC poker.

[Patricnz 0]

whoa whoa whoa! this it totally opposite to what i understood. My understanding is that AK should be a hand you should try and isolate with. You do NOT want a lot of other people in the hand. Is this true or not?unlike AA and KK Ak improves in mutiway pots so its not necessary to isoltae with itthats my understanding

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

Raising with a 2-7 is foolish. At least when u represent strength with a small ace and you make your ace on the flop, you can bet with strength and leave yourself a couple of out just in case you do get called down. If you get called out to somebody with a higher ace then o well, you werent the first player to stab it.instinct comes with experience and knowledge of the game. position has alot to do with it.Thats how players like DN and gus hansen have become winners with rather loose play.

[SapphireTiger 0]

according to sklanksky in SSHE, he says any big suited broadway cards will play well against many or few opponents.

[pockethulk 0]

Your raise of 4x was good, especially considering you would most likely be out of position should someone call, don't let them get position on you cheaply. BTW, I don't mind the SB call with QJh after the other 2 players call, that was the only thing he did right. IMHOOn the flop, when you raised the initial bettor it was a decent enough of a raise for someone with less than a 3% chance to be wise enough to fold. You have a powerful draw to go with your TPTK so you don't want to push too hard. You would love for someone to catch the 2nd best hand.The goods new was that this person was a bad player and called, with his hand it is exactly what you want. Should you have been up against a set you would have found out quickly as you would be facing another big reraise to chase you out incase you have a flush draw.On the turn you bet about 1/4 the pot which gives the SB 5-1 odds to which his hand still isn't good enough to call with, at this point he is about 11-1. The only reason to justify this call is if he thinks he can get the rest of your chips should he hit his hand, but his play on the river doesn't reflect that.On the river he bets 1/4 the pot, this either means "please call" or its a weak bluff. Some players will also make this play when they are bluffing if they think that you are an aware player and will interpet it as "please call". You're call is acceptable assuming you have little knowledge of the player.Basically at no point did you not bet enough to make it incorrect for the player to fold after the flop...therefore there is nothing you should have done differently. If you did not have the nut flush draw to go along with it then it would have been correct to bet a little more...maybe the size of the pot or so.No-limit is a tough game no matter how good you are. You can lose all your profits in one unlucky hand. The worst part is that most casino's have a cap on the buy-in which can make it difficult to get your money back while the big stacks push you around. This is why pot-limit makes for a good cash game, you can lose 3 out of 10 big pots and still be a winner, in no-limit the first lost might send you home :?I would advise anyone to look for uncapped games where most of the players are buying in at amounts that you are comfortable with. How's that for a strategy?Other than that, stick to tournaments if you must play no-limit and can't find a cash game that suits you.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

sklansky is a weiner

[Forbidden Void 0]

Ok, after reading all of your posts yesterday, I decided to tweak a few things and try again. I jumped onto a 2/4 NL table on stars for about 3-4 hours last night, and it turned out fairly well.I still lost one key pot, but recovered quickly. I owe that one more to not paying attention than anything else.Here it is:I'm dealt QhKh in early position and I throw up a 12 dollar bet after UTG folds to get a feel for the table. One caller and BB calls too.Flop comes 6h9h6dBB checks, so I lead out with $24 on my flush draw.1st player calls, BB folds.Turn shows 6c and I bet out $40 to represent strength here. The call by this other guy felt weak to me on the flop, and I thought 78 suited or maybe middle PP and I thought I might scare him out here.No such luck.River brings me Qc and I hit a small boat. All of a sudden, though, something doesn't smell right. I check my boat and he bets out $36 and is all in. My brain is screaming "he's got you, and now he's trapped you!" And I didn't listen. I call the 36 and he turns over KcKd. I get a little sick to my stomach, but keep on going.I busted that guy later because I was irritated that he would play kings like that. Call, call, call.Is this a common thing on NL tables to play KK like that? I've heard all sorts of horror stories about how kings never win and they cost people more money overall. Do people get gun shy with KK in their hand or what? P.S. I like this NL cash thing, I made 285 dollars in 3 and a half hours on that table. I suppose variance will have it's day though, and I'll be back to making 20-25 an hour at the tables.

[SOWhatKid 0]

make it 8 preflop and you get 1 caller and you take the pot on the flop no problem. Your mistake was I think you were trying to disguise you're hand to much and it wound up losing you the pot at the end

[Guest]

Here's an article written by Rolf Slotboom over at Cardplayer, it might give you an idea of how AK should be played or not played : http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...4079&m_id=65538and part 2http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...4105&m_id=65539