Hand Reading

[Sheiky 0]

In analysing where money is won and lost on the poker table, it's clear to me that hand reading is by far and away the most important skill required to be a successful player. It helps to know how big you're 4-bets should be or how you should alter your game when playing deep stacked, but ultimately it all comes back to how well you can read you opponent's range. The secondary part - how to play against that range - is important, but relatively simple if you can get a good enough grasp on what hand your opponent has.I also think that in general, because of the way the game works, too much poker advice is given on the wrong issues. This is because to teach via an article or forum post, you have to talk about something in generalised terms, such as the concept of 'pot control' or the value of naked pairs in PLO. Generalisations (don't fold overpairs against fish for example) though useful, are often counter productive in the long run. To illustrate this point, I think there are two main types of hand reading that players use. Type 1.This is what begining players and intermediates typically use. Because an inexperienced player doesn't really understand that much about the game, they have to analyse their opponents had based on advice given to them by other players. This means that when facing a decision, their thought process is something like 'Oh I have top pair, my brother told me not to fold top pair, hence I will call this guys river bet'.As the player plays more and gets more experienced with certain situations, as well as listening to other players talk about the game, he starts to analyse decision in a slightly different way. Now, he'll think more like 'Ah, top pair, from my 10,000 hands of play I know that top pair is usually a winning hand in this situation, therefore I will call' The good things about this approach is that it takes less mental energy and can be learnt quickly, normally to decent results at low levels. The flaws however are very limiting. As the player is analysing situational hands in relation to other situations, he's bound to miss out on key bits of situation specific information that would have altered this situation. Hopefully this is clearer when I explain type 2.Type 2.I believe this approach to hand reading is a big factor that separates the great players from the good players. Instead of analysing there own hand strength in relation to previous similar instances, a player instead views every situation as separate and uses every piece of information he has to work out his opponents holding. He thinks back to other hands he's seen this guy play and he puts himself in his opponents shoes to try to understand what type of hands he could be holding. 'I have top pair, but what does that even matter?' The expert recognises that hand strengths are completely relative and largely ignores his own holding, instead focusing on his opponents hand. A type 1 hand reader will look at his hand absolute hand strength and make a judgement as to whether the previous actions rates his hand to be good. Say, against a 3rd barrel he will say he will recognise only that his opponent is representing strength. More specifically, he will look at his own hand and think if it is worth calling 3 barrels. A more advanced hand reader will recognise that the 3rd barrel may not be strength at all, it could be the exact opposite. He will take into account his opponents tendencies and that figures out what his most likely range is. Only after all that will he come back to his own hand, and this time only to see whether he can beat what he views his opponents most likely holding to be.From playing and reading forums, I believe that a lot of players probably struggle because they approach the game too much like type 1 and not enough like type 2. They won't even think they do because after all, they post on a poker forum and fully understand that hand values are relative. However, even though I think most people understand this, I don't think everyone puts it into practice all of the time. I imagine that a lot of players switch to auto-pilot and regress into 'I have top pair, I call' thinking instead of analysing every situation as separate and visualising the game through their opponent's eyes.I think a common tendency is for players too focus far too much on their own hand, and far too little on their opponents.Thoughts?

[trystero 0]

When I've taught some of my friends how to play poker, I've done so with razz because it forces them read their opponents' boards (total novices, don't even know the hand rankings). Unlike in stud games, HE promotes the illusion that only your cards matter. For a while, most players don't even consider "reading" the other hands. They literally cannot see them, so they don't even bother. This causes perhaps the largest disparity of skill in NLHE (except, of course, for the skill of separating playable from unplayable hands): the notion that your opponent has cards, too, and that you can figure them out.

[blackmont 0]

1 - what do i have2- what do i think he has3 - what do i think he thinks i have4 - what do i think he thinks i think he hasHand reading is only a fraction of what a good player needs in his or her arsenal. It doesnt matter if you can put someone on a draw, or a over pair. you need to know what they are thinking, and you need to know what you need to do to exploit them.How can you convince the player you're weak when you're strong, and vice versa. How can you get him to laydown a better hand, and how can you off his game by laying down a worse hand correctly.reading hands and betting patterns is important, however its only the first steps.

[SlapStick 0]

I'm not really skilled enough at it to comment on the article but good work, stuff like this is always appreciated.And shouldn't it be My thoughts on....Hand reading

[Dice_3008 1]

Looking at my own game I believe I'm about average to slightly above average at putting people on hands. My biggest problem is playing people who play anything from any position regardless of how many raises or whose doing the raising/calling. I find myself lost in big hands against these players often laying down the best hand or spewing money because I just don't believe them. Maybe that's my problem, I'm trying to assign them a specific hand rather than a range of hands.

[blackmont 0]

Looking at my own game I believe I'm about average to slightly above average at putting people on hands. My biggest problem is playing people who play anything from any position regardless of how many raises or whose doing the raising/calling. I find myself lost in big hands against these players often laying down the best hand or spewing money because I just don't believe them. Maybe that's my problem, I'm trying to assign them a specific hand rather than a range of hands.

well firstly. If you notice in the strat forums, people will post the hand, but they also post the pokertracker stats, and their own personal reads of the player.a good player (and you should take your own time to practice) is the ability to sit at any table, or view from the sidelines before sitting. and know what type of players each player is.you might not know their exact VP$P or aggression but a good player will know who is a LAG who is a TAG, who is passive etc.. You could even go as far as knowing who has a good knowledge of the game and who doesnt. Once you have established these guidelines you can then start to play according to player. By opening your range when you have position vs the LAG for example. and then tighhtening up when you're OOP.the button goes around and around, and in battle you dont attack a strong opponent head on in at one time. you jab, jab, jab until he gives you an opening.

[Sheiky 0]

1 - what do i have2- what do i think he has3 - what do i think he thinks i have4 - what do i think he thinks i think he hasHand reading is only a fraction of what a good player needs in his or her arsenal. It doesnt matter if you can put someone on a draw, or a over pair. you need to know what they are thinking, and you need to know what you need to do to exploit them.How can you convince the player you're weak when you're strong, and vice versa. How can you get him to laydown a better hand, and how can you off his game by laying down a worse hand correctly.reading hands and betting patterns is important, however its only the first steps.

I think the level thing is severely over rated and a a pretty redundant way of looking at poker. Looking at your own hand in the eyes of your opponent can be very important in places, but I don't think that way of thinking has much merit after that.I would disagree that hand reading if only a fraction of what a good player needs. Think about how easy the game would be if you could see your opponent's cards. Obviously that's an extreme example, but getting as close as you can to that point makes everything else pale in comparison. Most players understand a lot of poker concept as honestly they're not very hard to learn. Most players understand the concept of betting for value and not information, playing in position and checking to avoid getting raised. I don't think any of that stuff is particularly complicated at all.Actually I should say that my point is that a lot of people have a more than adequate grasp of basic and advanced concepts, but are sub par hand readers.

[blackmont 0]

I think the level thing is severely over rated Actually I should say that my point is that a lot of people have a more than adequate grasp of basic and advanced concepts, but are sub par hand readers.

wow. never thought i would see the day. Its probably one of the most advance thinking processes i've ever heard of, poker related or not. trying to compute those 4 steps within a short time while playing is so technical that if you can do it, you're probably going to do extremely well as a player.the thing is, (with your example of being able to see your opponents cards).. thats all well and good for beginners. You can probably narrow it down to 1 exact hand sometimes. if they are that easily readable. but playing people who mix up play, or disguise hands.. its very very important to be playing on the highest level mindset opposed to tryiing to narrow it down to 1 hand.

[NoBBiR 0]

Looking at my own game I believe I'm about average to slightly above average at putting people on hands. My biggest problem is playing people who play anything from any position regardless of how many raises or whose doing the raising/calling. I find myself lost in big hands against these players often laying down the best hand or spewing money because I just don't believe them. Maybe that's my problem, I'm trying to assign them a specific hand rather than a range of hands.

100% it is.

[tskillz187 0]

And shouldn't it be My thoughts on....Hand reading

This.But yeah, hand reading is incredibly important and only comes with playing lots of hands in addition to thinking about why you are doing what you are doing. Don't autopilot. Think about everything you are doing and why it's the right play. Soon it becomes automatic, like breathing, and you just put people on ranges right away, and continue to narrow them through the betting patterns and can often peg someone on a few specific hands or FOS hands and make the right decisions.I mean, obv hand reading is super important, it's poker.

[mtdesmoines 3]

1 - what do i have2- what do i think he has3 - what do i think he thinks i have4 - what do i think he thinks i think he hasHand reading is only a fraction of what a good player needs in his or her arsenal. It doesnt matter if you can put someone on a draw, or a over pair. you need to know what they are thinking, and you need to know what you need to do to exploit them.How can you convince the player you're weak when you're strong, and vice versa. How can you get him to laydown a better hand, and how can you off his game by laying down a worse hand correctly.reading hands and betting patterns is important, however its only the first steps.

I think this is over-rated. I don't know that we should routinely find ourselves in spots where it is necessary to make people lay down better hands, unless they are the type to totally lay down everything.

I think the level thing is severely over rated and a a pretty redundant way of looking at poker. Looking at your own hand in the eyes of your opponent can be very important in places, but I don't think that way of thinking has much merit after that.I would disagree that hand reading if only a fraction of what a good player needs. Think about how easy the game would be if you could see your opponent's cards. Obviously that's an extreme example, but getting as close as you can to that point makes everything else pale in comparison. Most players understand a lot of poker concept as honestly they're not very hard to learn. Most players understand the concept of betting for value and not information, playing in position and checking to avoid getting raised. I don't think any of that stuff is particularly complicated at all.Actually I should say that my point is that a lot of people have a more than adequate grasp of basic and advanced concepts, but are sub par hand readers.

I agree. I think if we remember two or three critical hands vs. each opponent, we're going to know what they think of us, and that information is going to help us act accordingly.