Double Or Nothing I Have No Clue What To Think Here

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Villain took a long time to play after the flop. I was worried about aces, but made a small raise to see where I was at. After the turn I had him off of aces and tried to milk it. Critique on all streets would be good. I don't know whether I messed up somewhere or lost the minimum.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.10 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG+1 (t1325)UTG+2 (t1355)MP1 (t1270)MP2 (t1365)MP3 (t1775)CO (t1520)Button (t955)SB (t2475)Hero (BB) (t1955)UTG (t1005)Hero's M: 7.82Preflop: Hero is BB with K , K 8 folds, SB raises to t200, Hero calls t100Flop: (t500) 7 , 7 , 8 (2 players)SB bets t100, Hero raises to t300, SB calls t200Turn: (t1100) 8 (2 players)SB bets t100, Hero calls t100River: (t1300) 8 (2 players)SB bets t600, Hero calls t600Total pot: t2500Results in white below: SB had 6 , 8 (four of a kind, eights).Hero mucked K , K (full house, eights over Kings).Outcome: SB won t2500

[patho 0]

Villain took a long time to play after the flop. I was worried about aces, but made a small raise to see where I was at. After the turn I had him off of aces and tried to milk it. Critique on all streets would be good. I don't know whether I messed up somewhere or lost the minimum.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00+$0.10 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 10 Ante (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flop | saw showdownUTG+1 (t1325)UTG+2 (t1355)MP1 (t1270)MP2 (t1365)MP3 (t1775)CO (t1520)Button (t955)SB (t2475)Hero (BB) (t1955)UTG (t1005)Hero's M: 7.82Preflop: Hero is BB with K , K 8 folds, SB raises to t200, Hero calls t100Flop: (t500) 7 , 7 , 8 (2 players)SB bets t100, Hero raises to t300, SB calls t200Turn: (t1100) 8 (2 players)SB bets t100, Hero calls t100River: (t1300) 8 (2 players)SB bets t600, Hero calls t600Total pot: t2500Results in white below: SB had 6 , 8 (four of a kind, eights).Hero mucked K , K (full house, eights over Kings).Outcome: SB won t2500

I think you would have been better off reraising preflop if you wanted to find out where you're at. You would have to use your own judgment as to how much though. Depends how that player was playing as well as how the tables was, ie. loose, tight, etc.

[MovingIn 0]

I can see the PF flat as an action call, since a healthy 3bet probably folds most of villain's range and then all you get is the minraise. I can see arguments for either flatting or 3betting pre. But once the flop comes, villain's probably not folding no matter what you do. EDIT: I only say that in case we're thinking of plays that would fold villain postflop. Not sure you can here. With a WA/WB flop, it's pretty simple: he's either folding to any bet or staying in.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Pre-flop I felt that the call would more likely get me more chips than the re raise.

[KoRnholio 2]

Shove river. He is calling any pp above 9's, perhaps even with ATC to play the board.

[SGFULTON83 0]

I would re-raise preflop here 99.9% of the time, with all intentions of getting it all-in obviously. Also by re-raising we get more money in the pot on the flop to be able to get it all-in here without it being to much of an overbet.

[XXEddie 0]

I can see the PF flat as an action call, since a healthy 3bet probably folds most of villain's range and then all you get is the minraise. I can see arguments for either flatting or 3betting pre. But once the flop comes, villain's probably not folding no matter what you do. EDIT: I only say that in case we're thinking of plays that would fold villain postflop. Not sure you can here. With a WA/WB flop, it's pretty simple: he's either folding to any bet or staying in.

So? Its a DoN. Even 'just the minraise' is fine because you get that 200 + the other 9 antes. So you're picking up 290 pretty easily. Taking away what should bet a 3-bet preflop, IPITS.

[pokerinc 0]

get rid of results first off, 2nd yeah I shove river and raise pre flop. this is a double or nothing? I don't have to get all the chips, just outlast five donks, I'm raising pre b/c why bother w/ the flop

[MovingIn 0]

So? Its a DoN. Even 'just the minraise' is fine because you get that 200 + the other 9 antes. So you're picking up 290 pretty easily. Taking away what should bet a 3-bet preflop, IPITS.

True. DoN's are more of a win-and-squat game, so taking a small, easy pot doesn't mean any big lost opportunity. The argument for flatting has a lot more merit in a regular STT or MTT, where you need more than a double up.

[bwstacker1 0]

i would have went all in preflop he would have folded. but u would not have got your head cracked either. BB power position. use it. that is how a person loses with pockets. you have to draw powerful handsa to be in hand to win. PP usaully lose when you slow play them if you dont hit set off of flop. you should be aware there was hands that was superior to yours also. so take pot earlier net time. you might win more. no more results.

[DonkSlayer 1]

My suggestion would be to stop playing these stupid fcking DoN's because 1. you're not playing better than you would in a normal game, it forces you to think about hands more than you should and 2. because they're fcking stupid. Reraise PF, allin is fine, or a big committing raise that you can stick it in on the flop is fine too. The river is a fold....WHAT DOES VILLAIN HAVE HERE THAT YOU CAN BEAT??!!??

[DonkSlayer 1]

Let me just berate a little more here:If you're posting hands on the internets, you're clearly wanting poker to turn out better than just entertainment...but you're not thinking for yourself, at all. Clearly, you're not, from earlier posts, and this one especially...you're just thinking spur of the moment, being reactionary, and then posting hands because you don't understand how you got in the spot you did, when the real answer is: "I don't think about hands at all, I just want to lose and then post hands and wait for that epiphany that comes so I don't have to think while I'm playing and can still win money."Why on earth, short of you being drunk, did you decide to take the line you did, here? If you were going to slow-play KK because you thought someone who minraised from the SB has to have QQ and you're getting it all in on a low flop(EVEN WHEN ITS ONE OF THOSE FCKING DON'S WHERE NO ONE WANTS TO DO THAT), whhhhyyyyyy did you call such a huge bet on the river? What do you put villain on? Are you thinking about what he has at all, or are you just in love with your KK, no matter how you played it prior in the hand? Villain either has AA, an overpair to the board, or the nutz....he never ever shows up here with anything worse than that. It's a DON...he doesn't want to lose all his chips in a crazy bluff. Couldn't you see that? Didn't you think at all and say "ok, this is the type of tourney, here's the board, he just minraised me, bet every street, and then slam-dunked the river, even though I showed interest in this hand by calling preflop, calling the flop, and calling the turn?"Some tough love for you. Learn and read through your hands you want to post and think about whether you REALLY know what you should've done before you post them.

[Gallo 1]

Let me just berate a little more here:If you're posting hands on the internets, you're clearly wanting poker to turn out better than just entertainment...but you're not thinking for yourself, at all. Clearly, you're not, from earlier posts, and this one especially...you're just thinking spur of the moment, being reactionary, and then posting hands because you don't understand how you got in the spot you did, when the real answer is: "I don't think about hands at all, I just want to lose and then post hands and wait for that epiphany that comes so I don't have to think while I'm playing and can still win money."Why on earth, short of you being drunk, did you decide to take the line you did, here? If you were going to slow-play KK because you thought someone who minraised from the SB has to have QQ and you're getting it all in on a low flop(EVEN WHEN ITS ONE OF THOSE FCKING DON'S WHERE NO ONE WANTS TO DO THAT), whhhhyyyyyy did you call such a huge bet on the river? What do you put villain on? Are you thinking about what he has at all, or are you just in love with your KK, no matter how you played it prior in the hand? Villain either has AA, an overpair to the board, or the nutz....he never ever shows up here with anything worse than that. It's a DON...he doesn't want to lose all his chips in a crazy bluff. Couldn't you see that? Didn't you think at all and say "ok, this is the type of tourney, here's the board, he just minraised me, bet every street, and then slam-dunked the river, even though I showed interest in this hand by calling preflop, calling the flop, and calling the turn?"Some tough love for you. Learn and read through your hands you want to post and think about whether you REALLY know what you should've done before you post them.

sigh. I think we need to calm down just a tad. But fwiw, DS makes some valid points. The most valid I think is his last sentence "Learn and read through your hands you want to post and think about whether you REALLY know what you should've done before you post them."I think we all make the mistake of not reading our hands first and think about how we probably SHOULD HAVE played the hand.

[Gallo 1]

Also Chet, after reading another one of your posts you are sometimes giving waaaaay too much credit to your opponent. You posted a hand where you raised PF and got 1 caller and you said that you thought villain had AK. People don't often call with AK.Then on this hand you put the villain on AA. Why? Because of his minraise? I agree with DS, you probably should've just shoved preflop or shoved the flop.Don't always be scared of monsters under the bed.

[SlackerInc 0]

My suggestion would be to stop playing these stupid fcking DoN's because 1. you're not playing better than you would in a normal game, it forces you to think about hands more than you should and 2. because they're fcking stupid.

QFT! I played, oh, a few dozen of them I think, made a solid ROI, but stopped because I basically hated them. At least the other SnGs I play, I generally enjoy them and can play some hands even when I'm the big stack, and can have the satisfaction of getting down to shorthanded and then HU play and outduelling people.

[DonkSlayer 1]

QFT! I played, oh, a few dozen of them I think, made a solid ROI, but stopped because I basically hated them. At least the other SnGs I play, I generally enjoy them and can play some hands even when I'm the big stack, and can have the satisfaction of getting down to shorthanded and then HU play and outduelling people.

Cheers. I guess they're fine if you're grinding up a bankroll, but why even post a DoN hand? You have to play totally differently and not creatively at all, and really it's gotta be just a math with maaayybe a 2nd-level thinking sprinkled in.

[SlackerInc 0]

Cheers. I guess they're fine if you're grinding up a bankroll, but why even post a DoN hand? You have to play totally differently and not creatively at all, and really it's gotta be just a math with maaayybe a 2nd-level thinking sprinkled in.

I suppose you can play a certain amount of "real poker" in the first blind level or two, and I'm sure there are ways to make moves (especially at higher buyins where people are engaged in meta-thinking). Just not my cup of tea though.

[MovingIn 0]

I'll admit I'm also getting tired of DON hands because the ideal strategy for it is a simplified version of STT NLHE. Basically, win a couple good pots, sit on your stack and wait for the others to busto. I don't see the need for strategic discussion because there isn't much strategy to it.

[SlackerInc 0]

I'll admit I'm also getting tired of DON hands because the ideal strategy for it is a simplified version of STT NLHE. Basically, win a couple good pots, sit on your stack and wait for the others to busto. I don't see the need for strategic discussion because there isn't much strategy to it.

There's got to be some strategy when you're on the bubble and you have the 5th or 6th ranked stack (especially if those two are close in size to each other).Plus you can discuss a pot in a low blind situation near the start.I don't really enjoy these, but I don't enjoy Omaha either--and I wouldn't claim there is no purpose for discussing Omaha strat. Or, more to the point in this forum, discussing strat in turbos.

[MovingIn 0]

Well, bubble strat is bubble strat, and Omaha is certainly not a simple, crippled form of poker. And turbos involve a lot more action than the win-and-squat DONs, since there's a lot of work needed to get in the money in a turbo just like most other tourneys.This hand is neither on the bubble nor in an early situation where everyone is near even. This is another one of those DON 'oh no should I even play this at all?' hands.