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f*ck this, im proving this whole thread wrong and playing 1/2 live for a living in 2009.(im only kidding a little bit)serious question: what kind of starting bankroll would one recommend for this? 30 buy ins? 50?
uh like 15 should be way more then enough
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I kept track of my 1/2 home game sessions for a year. I played an average of 15 hours a week at 3 different games and averaged exactly $35 an hour. This was 75% home games and 25% Atlantic City.
im gonna guess the 75% of home games were not raked.
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wow you really are a troll. please never respond to a post of mine again. this one included.
awww its cute how you get mad cause people are pointing out that your friend is a retard. Youre soooo getting laid tonight
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No, I'm serious.Some people don't like real jobs. Do you disagree?
Anyone over the age of 25 would understand why playing 1-2NL for a living is worse than meetings and other "real work". Would you drive around the desert in an air conditioned car for 8 hours a day if you could pick the times you did it and would be guaranteed to find $25 every hour?Edit: And most people under 25, but 100% of people over.
wow you really are a troll. please never respond to a post of mine again. this one included.
1) Relax, it was a joke2) How come you never responded to my post about optimal winrates?
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im gonna guess the 75% of home games were not raked.
They actually were super raked lol. 10% to $5 plus $2 for high hand bonus which I rarely won because of stupid "river card must show" rules and $1 for a bad beat jackpot that I also never won.
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Anyone over the age of 25 would understand why playing 1-2NL for a living is worse than meetings and other "real work". Would you drive around the desert in an air conditioned car for 8 hours a day if you could pick the times you did it and would be guaranteed to find $25 every hour?Edit: And most people under 25, but 100% of people over.
To answer your question literally, no, I wouldn't quit my job today and drive around in the desert for $25/hr.Lots of jobs suck more than that, though, and I might find myself in a situation where that was my best option. If the driving around in the desert allowed me to meet some life goal that required the flexibility, I would do it.And, strangely enough for a person on this forum, I kinda like playing poker more than driving around in the desert.
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Anyone over the age of 25 would understand why playing 1-2NL for a living is worse than meetings and other "real work". Would you drive around the desert in an air conditioned car for 8 hours a day if you could pick the times you did it and would be guaranteed to find $25 every hour?Edit: And most people under 25, but 100% of people over.1) Relax, it was a joke2) How come you never responded to my post about optimal winrates?
i guess you baited me into another post. 1) mainly because im convinced that im right and that you didn't even really think about what was being said. buying into your average 2/5 live game with 50bbs compared to 100bbs will have a negligible effect on winrate. in fact, i don't think its far fetched to say that for some players they will actually do better since they will have more money in front of them when they are winning and less when they are losing. he wasn't talking about buying for 50bbs, shoving with a top 8% hand preflop, and then leaving when he doubled up. your posts were an obvious knee jerk reaction to short stacking which for some reason runs rampant among poker message boards. my guess is that its because they've figured out how to play with 100bbs and don't know how to do anything else. if playing with a short stack is so stupid then why does everybody hate on everybody who does it so much? 2) your posts are always argumentative and negative in tone. and while im happy to discuss and debate something like this with you (or anybody else) until the cows come home something i am not interested in is internet dick waving contests and arguments. if you are usually joking, like you said you were this time, you should know that it doesn't come across that way. maybe be a little less "i know everything", or at least be funny about it or something. k? :club: and you would really rather work in an office from 9-5 than drive a car around the desert all night picking up dollars? i know that im kinda anti social and even slightly agoraphobic, but damn, if you are making the same doing both i really think that anybody who wouldn't pick the car is kind of insane.
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To answer your question literally, no, I wouldn't quit my job today and drive around in the desert for $25/hr.Lots of jobs suck more than that, though, and I might find myself in a situation where that was my best option. If the driving around in the desert allowed me to meet some life goal that required the flexibility, I would do it.And, strangely enough for a person on this forum, I kinda like playing poker more than driving around in the desert.
If you are smart enough to play 1/2 for a living, you're more than likely smart enough where that will never be your "best option", though I suppose anything is possible.There are a million reasons why playing live poker professionally for all but the highest stakes are not a smart move. It's why you don't see any 25 year olds playing 1/2 or 2/5 live for a living.
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i guess you baited me into another post. 1) mainly because im convinced that im right and that you didn't even really think about what was being said. buying into your average 2/5 live game with 50bbs compared to 100bbs will have a negligible effect on winrate. in fact, i don't think its far fetched to say that for some players they will actually do better since they will have more money in front of them when they are winning and less when they are losing. he wasn't talking about buying for 50bbs, shoving with a top 8% hand preflop, and then leaving when he doubled up. your posts were an obvious knee jerk reaction to short stacking which for some reason runs rampant among poker message boards. my guess is that its because they've figured out how to play with 100bbs and don't know how to do anything else. if playing with a short stack is so stupid then why does everybody hate on everybody who does it so much? 2) your posts are always argumentative and negative in tone. and while im happy to discuss and debate something like this with you (or anybody else) until the cows come home something i am not interested in is internet dick waving contests and arguments. if you are usually joking, like you said you were this time, you should know that it doesn't come across that way. maybe be a little less "i know everything", or at least be funny about it or something. k? :club: and you would really rather work in an office from 9-5 than drive a car around the desert all night picking up dollars? i know that im kinda anti social and even slightly agoraphobic, but damn, if you are making the same doing both i really think that anybody who wouldn't pick the car is kind of insane.
Regarding #2) I can definitely be an ass sometimes, I admit that readily. Sorry if I offended you. Which leads to...#1) This is part of the reason I was so harsh and sarcastic about this topic. I'm wrong about a ton of shit poker related, a TON. I have just yet to see any evidence that short stacking is a more optimal way to make money than buying in full, and I have seen tons of evidence against it.And regarding the last point...if people would rather drive around the desert without social interaction, never challenging themselves, being bored out of their mind all day, developing no skillset, providing no service to society, leaving huge holes in their resume, having no benefits, and (worth mentioning twice) being MIND NUMBINGLY BORED all day, more power to em. I'll take the 9-5, thanks.
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I have played a lot of 1/2 and 2/5 NLHE in Vegas over the last few years. If you avoid the Mirage and Caesars and stick to the MGM and other donk rooms then you could make decent money playing 1/2. But you cant win 40 bucks an hour unless you are good enough to move up much higher than 1/2. And even then you would need good cards.

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Regarding #2) I can definitely be an ass sometimes, I admit that readily. Sorry if I offended you. Which leads to...#1) This is part of the reason I was so harsh and sarcastic about this topic. I'm wrong about a ton of shit poker related, a TON. I have just yet to see any evidence that short stacking is a more optimal way to make money than buying in full, and I have seen tons of evidence against it.And regarding the last point...if people would rather drive around the desert without social interaction, never challenging themselves, being bored out of their mind all day, developing no skillset, providing no service to society, leaving huge holes in their resume, having no benefits, and (worth mentioning twice) being MIND NUMBINGLY BORED all day, more power to em. I'll take the 9-5, thanks.
that thread wasn't really about short stacking though, it was about buying in for 50bb instead of 100bb. we could be splitting hairs, but to me short stacking is buying in short, using the fact that you're short to your advantage somehow, and then leaving when you get deep enough that you can't use it to your advantage anymore. for some evidence for short stacking, maybe its apples and oranges but the player with one of the highest winrates in the 5/10 nlo8 game shortstacked exclusively. however, he was not just buying in short and waiting for a good hand to double up. in fact, he made most of his money when he shoved and somebody folded and used the profit from that so he could get it all in as a 60/40 dog a whole lot. if you start thinking about using your short stack for fold equity instead of getting it in with the best hand you have opened up a whole new can of worms, one that you will almost never hear discussed.driving around in a car for 5 days a week 8 hours a day provided i could do it when i wanted to actually wouldn't bore me. going to work everyday depresses me. like i said above, i do have social problems, and its probably a good thing that more people aren't like me or the world would be filled with a bunch of grifters with nobody to grift from (hyperbole, im only 1/3 a thief).
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I have played a lot of 1/2 and 2/5 NLHE in Vegas over the last few years. If you avoid the Mirage and Caesars and stick to the MGM and other donk rooms then you could make decent money playing 1/2. But you cant win 40 bucks an hour unless you are good enough to move up much higher than 1/2. And even then you would need good cards.
you should be able to do around $40 at 2/5 i think, no?
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Anyone over the age of 25 would understand why playing 1-2NL for a living is worse than meetings and other "real work". Would you drive around the desert in an air conditioned car for 8 hours a day if you could pick the times you did it and would be guaranteed to find $25 every hour?
Couple of questions regarding the conditions mentioned above:1. Do we have control over music in said car?2. Are we allowed to talk people via cell phone?3. Are we paid mileage in addition to finding the $25 dollars an hour?4. When I get into the inevitable car accident, will I be able to sue the hell out of the person who hit me (obv I'm not going to be at fault) and make extra money?
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I didnt read this whole thread so if some of this was mentioned already sorry...but...#1 To get an accurate reading on if you will be able to sustain an acceptable win rate I feel you would have to play 8 hours a day 5 days a week (or whatever you deem appropriate to make the income you require) for about 5 months. Then you would have to calculate your win rate between months 3 and 5 and that will most likely be a good indication of a win rate that you can expect to experience in the long run. Why do I feel between 3 and 5 months? Because you need to see how you will react to being in a poker room non stop. You are sitting at a table for long periods of time with people who in some cases wont want to say a word to you. Sure this is a lot of fun but when you are forced to do it everyday for a long period of time there is a chance that it just wont be for you and will have a negative effect on your game. Your lifestyle may also become completely different which can effect you as well (im not sure how you live now so I dont know what would change) but you would be keeping weird hours, most likely eating casino fast food way too often (which is unhealthy), and in an environment where alcohol is always available. You also will be working a job where you are your own boss and if you are not motivated to work you can either not work or even worse work at less than 100% and lose money. You also need to see how you deal with the swings when you are actually paying their bills with the money rather than just playing for fun. All of these factors can have a negative effect on a player and it is important for a person to see how they react to these factors before they just call themselves a professional. It isnt that hard for a player to play a strong game going to a casino everyday for a week on vacation then going back to the real world. It is a completely different animal going day after day for months.#2 Why would anyone ever commit to being a pro 1/2 player? Why wouldnt you at least say that you are committing to starting at 1/2 looking to improve, build a br, and move up levels where you will be able to make more money.#3 Why wouldnt he play online where the games are probably tougher but to make up for it you will be able to see way more hands, have more games to choose from, have pokertracker to take notes on players rather than guessing what tourists can play and what tourists cant, rakeback, and the option to multitable.EDIT: This is post #69 in this thread which I must point out is something special

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Couple of questions regarding the conditions mentioned above:1. Do we have control over music in said car?2. Are we allowed to talk people via cell phone?3. Are we paid mileage in addition to finding the $25 dollars an hour?4. When I get into the inevitable car accident, will I be able to sue the hell out of the person who hit me (obv I'm not going to be at fault) and make extra money?
1) Yes2) yes3) No4) NoNo TV's or internet either
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Couple of questions regarding the conditions mentioned above:1. Do we have control over music in said car?2. Are we allowed to talk people via cell phone?3. Are we paid mileage in addition to finding the $25 dollars an hour?4. When I get into the inevitable car accident, will I be able to sue the hell out of the person who hit me (obv I'm not going to be at fault) and make extra money?
5. Can we move to the $50 desert after we crush $25?
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1) Yes2) yes3) No4) NoNo TV's or internet either
Okay, with that information given I pass. :club: If you said yes across the board I'd be much more willing to deal.
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Ive got experience playing 1/2 for a living in LV.Can you make 40$ an hour playing 1/2nl? YesHow many people in town make 40$ and hour? Maybe 3 or 4. Can you make a living off of 1/2nl? Yes. If you are just a grinder who plays smart basic poker better than the average player, you might only pull 10-15/hr at 1/2. I would not suggest making a living off of 1/2 then. But if you are a supertalented special player, 25 or more per hour can be made, adding up to 50-100k a year can be made, provided u can put in the req'd hours. Here would be my suggestions to achieving your 40/hr goal:- only tip 1 per hand, unless its over 150 or more, then you can tip 2 or more. (it all adds up to your 40$)- dont drink and play, as you honestly have to count all that money spent into your hourly win rate- dont play at the casino during a freeroll promotion where they require you to play xhours in a month, as it will be more likely filled with grinders and serious players during these months (unless u excel playing against these opponents, of course)- try to play most of your hours btw 5pm-5am, as this is when u will encounter more fish , tourists, people partying and having fun, etc.- u dont have to buy in for table max. if max is 3, buy in for 250. if max is 2, buy in for 150-175. more of your mistakes will come from your first few minutes of the table as you may get caught into hands w/o really knowing the opponents. Plus its more likely you are not in the zone that early in the session.- never start a hand with below 50bb. If you lose a pot and are down to 65 dollars, and dont wanna addon or cant, then get up and leave dont play the last 65.- play long sessions at the same table. 40/hr is impossible if u hit and run and never play a big stack at your table. The longer you are there, the more you should know your opponents, plus, the bigger your stack grows, the more you can open up your game and play some aggressive poker which is neccessary to reach 40/hr. I'd say if you just wait for good spots and let people spew to you, you can max out at 25-30hr, but you said you want 40, so sometimes as bigstack you may have to play the aggro style.- if you need days off during the week, try to not make them thurs fri sat nights, as these should be more juicy in general. most tourists fly home on sundays and arent there mon-wed either. - get players cards for all the rooms you play, as you should get 1$per hour towards food.

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How can you live on $40 an hour?
i know you're being cute, but im constantly amazed by the numbers some people come up with as what they need to earn to live. i know mom/dad/single child families who survive on 700ish a week, in new york city, which is not exactly a cheap place to live.
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I think I need to chime in here, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeed because I'm probably the only person here who can answer your question.I played live poker in Oklahoma City (1/2 nl at the local casino) for 4 years to support myself and my wife who does not work, and we lived really well. Here is a picture of our old house while I was playing poker:nice%20house.JPGAnd here is a picture of my wife:GStone_080704.jpgI logged my statistics into an excel sheet after every session and over about 6500 hours of live play over those years (total) my win rate was around $65/hour. During that time period I think I played about 5000 hands, and most of the profit came from one big pot at 1/2nl when me and this guy were in a 30 hour grudge match. We both had over $100,000 in front of us at 1/2 and the dealer dealt us AA against AA. We got all in preflop for $100,000 each and I made a flush. I will never forget that day, because that is also the day I got robbed for $200,000.Since then, I have moved houses. I live here now:R052_04.jpgIt's not like my old house and I wish I never played 1/2 nl live for a living. I had to move away from beautiful Oklahoma City and now I live about 80 miles north of Boise. My wife wants to go back to Oklahoma City but I'm too scared because there was a ton of crime. Now I make potato farm part time and sell wool part time from my sheeps. Oh, also, now my wife looks like this I am not sure what happened but I think it is the fault of live poker and my good win rate0303052grandma1.jpgi hope i helped good luck and let me know if u can do as well as I used to do. chase the dream and dont let life get you down or you might end up living 80 miles north of boise in a shack with a wife that ages funny

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