The Offical I Hate Karma, Astrology And Other New Age Crap Thread

[Don Giovanni 0]

i cant believe this thread ended up being so lame

[HollywoodAFD 0]

i cant believe this thread ended up being so lame

I'm pretty sure most of us knew it would

[speedz99 145]

All I merely meant to say was that I'm bothered by people who think Christianity (or other religions, but since I live in America I am mostly exposed to that particular religion) is stupid but then actually apparently think they can just make up their own rules of who gets into heaven.

I haven't come across anyone that rails against christianity for being stupid but still believes in heaven. Seems strange.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I haven't come across anyone that rails against christianity for being stupid but still believes in heaven. Seems strange.

Well it is strange, LOL. That's kind of the point. I'm surprised that you haven't come across even one person like that though. I know a bunch.

[vbnautilus 48]

Well it is strange, LOL. That's kind of the point. I'm surprised that you haven't come across even one person like that though. I know a bunch.

I mean it really depends on what you mean by heaven, right? I think heaven/hell are supposed to be metaphors for the way your life will end up depending on how you live it.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I mean it really depends on what you mean by heaven, right? I think heaven/hell are supposed to be metaphors for the way your life will end up depending on how you live it.

I think you'll have to clarify what you mean by "the way your life will end up" for me. What I was talking about are people that believe in an afterlife called "heaven" where they will get to live happily ever after for eternity as a reward for living what they personally consider to be a good life. Some of these people also think that Christianity is "wrong" or "stupid." I, naturally, find this amusing. This belief doesn't sound like the metaphor you're referring to.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think you'll have to clarify what you mean by "the way your life will end up" for me. What I was talking about are people that believe in an afterlife called "heaven" where they will get to live happily ever after for eternity as a reward for living what they personally consider to be a good life. Some of these people also think that Christianity is "wrong" or "stupid." I, naturally, find this amusing. This belief doesn't sound like the metaphor you're referring to.

That belief is ridiculous whether or not it is accompanied by christianity or islam or anything else. Basically I see the useful version of heaven/hell is that if you do bad things, your life will end up in suffering. E.g. you kill someone and are stuck with guilt the rest of your life. That's hell.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

That belief is ridiculous whether or not it is accompanied by christianity or islam or anything else.

Well yeah, I agree with that. The thread is about bagging on less common "religious" beliefs though.

[antistuff 0]

why is the idea of karma new age crap? perhaps you misunderstand.karma pretty much means action. whenever you do something there will be a reaction to it. if you roll a ball up a hill it will roll back down.

[crowTrobot 2]

why is the idea of karma new age crap? perhaps you misunderstand.karma pretty much means action. whenever you do something there will be a reaction to it. if you roll a ball up a hill it will roll back down.

false analogy. karma by any meaningful definition requires some sort of metaphsycial force connecting actions and consequences.

[theresa113 0]

why is the idea of karma new age crap? perhaps you misunderstand.karma pretty much means action. whenever you do something there will be a reaction to it. if you roll a ball up a hill it will roll back down.

false analogy. karma by any meaningful definition requires some sort of metaphsycial force connecting actions and consequences.

I think you are both right by definition. (It just depends on what you are referring to)kar⋅ma   /ˈkɑrmə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kahr-muh] Show IPA Pronunciation–noun1. Hinduism, Buddhism. action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation: in Hinduism one of the means of reaching Brahman. Compare bhakti (def. 1), jnana.2. Theosophy. the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one incarnation according to that person's deeds in the previous incarnation.3. fate; destiny.4. the good or bad emanations felt to be generated by someone or something.Origin:1820–30; < Skt: nom., acc. sing. of karman act, deed

[crowTrobot 2]

I think you are both right by definition. (It just depends on what you are referring to)kar⋅ma   /ˈkɑrmə/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kahr-muh] Show IPA Pronunciation–noun1. Hinduism, Buddhism. action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation: in Hinduism one of the means of reaching Brahman. Compare bhakti (def. 1), jnana.2. Theosophy. the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one incarnation according to that person's deeds in the previous incarnation.3. fate; destiny.4. the good or bad emanations felt to be generated by someone or something.Origin:1820–30; < Skt: nom., acc. sing. of karman act, deed

metaphysical connections are intrinsically implied by any meaningful cause-and-effect definiton of karma. that's why the notion is "new age crap"

[antistuff 0]

false analogy. karma by any meaningful definition requires some sort of metaphsycial force connecting actions and consequences.

there is nothing metaphysical about it. it does not refer to some magic force that keeps score and makes sure everybody gets what they deserve. i found a better explanation on wikipedia than i could have come up with

The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others.

[theresa113 0]

There is cause and effect in everything we do.We smile at someone, they smile back. We mix a particular to chemicals together and we will get an explosion.It is the basis of morality. We teach our kids cause and effect all of the time... study hard and you will get good grades, etc.Karma the term is used very loosely in today's society. When someone says it is Karmic, I do not automatically think they are talking about metaphysics.

[vbnautilus 48]

metaphysical connections are intrinsically implied by any meaningful cause-and-effect definiton of karma. that's why the notion is "new age crap"

It is the natural principle of cause and effect. I don't see why you think that definition makes it meaningless.You reap what you sow. Nothing metaphysical about that.

[theresa113 0]

I was thinking about the Karma thing even more last night and how we use that word so loosely. It is just like when someone is a dick at work to everyone and then they get fired. People will say it is Karma but what they actually mean, he was a jerk and as soon as no one needed him around anymore they got rid of him. Cause and effect. Nothing mystical. Just the facts. And if you are jerky to everyone the effect is that people will look for things to help fire you. You are nice to people and you mess up, they will look for things to help keep you.So when it comes to all of the religious or new agey terminology for reap what you sow or Karma or anything like that, I have no issues with it. Whether you believe in God or not, whether you consider your self spiritual or not, the fact is that you do to a certain extent get back what you put out there.

[Spademan 94]

My lord.People really have this much trouble with "karma"?Ugh.This for that. Quid pro quo. Jesus, it's really not some mystery. Even physics intimates the idea these days: the observer dictates reality.Seriously? Metaphysics? Such a concept has anything to do with it? Hume didn't believe that cause necessarily leads to effect. He was right. Just because it has always happened doesn't mean it will always be thus. You jump off a building, you fall. Simple enough. Doesn't mean it will always be thus. You jump off a building, maybe you fly. Maybe. Even if nothing changes about the mass of the earth. Maybe nothing changes about the physics of it. Maybe you don't fall, maybe you fly.But usually, if you jump of a building, you fall. It's so fucking simple. Who cares about metaphysics? It's so easy. Always. It is like A BALL TOSSED IN A SWIFT FLOWING RIVER. IT is SO FUCKING EASY.SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[crowTrobot 2]

there is nothing metaphysical about it. it does not refer to some magic force that keeps score and makes sure everybody gets what they deserve.

it definitionally does. you're redefining it.

The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others.

this obviously implies metaphysical connections.

[crowTrobot 2]

Even physics intimates the idea these days: the observer dictates reality.

not sure why you'd think QM is relevant to the concept of karma, but most physicists these days believe environmental decoherence collapses the wave function anda conscious observer isn't required.

Seriously? Metaphysics? Such a concept has anything to do with it? Hume didn't believe that cause necessarily leads to effect. He was right. Just because it has always happened doesn't mean it will always be thus. You jump off a building, you fall. Simple enough. Doesn't mean it will always be thus. You jump off a building, maybe you fly. Maybe. Even if nothing changes about the mass of the earth. Maybe nothing changes about the physics of it. Maybe you don't fall, maybe you fly.But usually, if you jump of a building, you fall. It's so fucking simple. Who cares about metaphysics? It's so easy. Always. It is like A BALL TOSSED IN A SWIFT FLOWING RIVER. IT is SO FUCKING EASY.SHUT THE FUCK UP.

normally i'd think this is more of the same type of sarcastic mockery you use to level other religious belief since it's just as nonsensical, but since you seem to actually bea proponent of some form of modern buddhism i'm a little confused

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

why is the idea of karma new age crap? perhaps you misunderstand.karma pretty much means action. whenever you do something there will be a reaction to it. if you roll a ball up a hill it will roll back down.

Did you read the OP or just the thread title?

[crowTrobot 2]

It is the natural principle of cause and effect. I don't see why you think that definition makes it meaningless.

it you limit it in that sense it's kind of an obvious, pointless concept. if i drop a rock it's karma that it falls?

You reap what you sow. Nothing metaphysical about that.

except you don't always reap what you sow. there may be trends, but there's way too many outside variables other than justour own "good" and "bad" actions that determine what happens to us. a kind person may have others be kind to him under mostcircumstances, but kind people also frequently suffer for their actions under other circumstances. if you redefine karma as good deeds being more likely to lead to good consequences under specific circumstances where it's likely that they will, you're just stating the obvious. any meaningful definition of karma goes beyond that, and necessarily introduces some sort of extra-physicaldirecting force or law.

[vbnautilus 48]

it you limit it in that sense it's kind of an obvious, pointless concept. if i drop a rock it's karma that it falls?except you don't always reap what you sow. there may be trends, but there's way too many outside variables other than justour own "good" and "bad" actions that determine what happens to us. a kind person may have others be kind to him under mostcircumstances, but kind people also frequently suffer for their actions under other circumstances. if you redefine karma as good deeds being more likely to lead to good consequences under specific circumstances where it's likely that they will, you're just stating the obvious. any meaningful definition of karma goes beyond that, and necessarily introduces some sort of extra-physicaldirecting force or law.

It's a principle, and it is intended to be an obvious principle. Obvious != meaningless. In general, good stuff leads to more good stuff, yes. Why you think this is a re-definition? You apparently have taken the corrupted-by-new-age-metaphysical-crap version as canonical.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Karma is just a way of saying "Told ya so".If someone is generally an ass...when something bad happens to them... people want to say "He got what he deserves...because of Karma".If someone is good and something good happens to them... "He deserved that...good Karma".Just because you are 'good'... doesn't necessarily mean that good things are coming your way.... just that others may focus on those things more.

[crowTrobot 2]

It's a principle, and it is intended to be an obvious principle.

it's NOT a principal. that's my point. bad things frequently happen to good people, and vice versa. the exact sameactions may lead to good or bad results for different people.

Obvious != meaningless.

obvious equals pointless. if you find meaning in pointlessly stating the obvious good for you.

Why you think this is a re-definition?

because you are explicitly adding the part where you're only referring to what can be traced directly topurely physical cause and effect. no traditional defintion of karma has ever done that, and mostpeople that use the term whether they realize it or not use it in a way that implies something more.

[HollywoodAFD 0]

This is scary... I agree with Crow on this one.Luckily Karma has nothing to do with religion.