Razz Hand From Tonights Neg-o

[XXEddie 0]

PokerStars Game #22368058317: Tournament #108950589, $10+$1 HORSE (Razz Limit) - Level III (60/120) - 2008/11/25 21:29:05 ETTable '108950589 1' 8-maxSeat 2: Larons (2478 in chips) is sitting outSeat 3: edmo123 (1839 in chips) Seat 4: hoodini (3574 in chips) Seat 6: KevinJA8FCP (2469 in chips) Seat 7: Raise, Ha! (3347 in chips) Seat 8: Phil Logan (4293 in chips) Raise, Ha!: posts the ante 12Phil Logan: posts the ante 12Larons: posts the ante 12edmo123: posts the ante 12hoodini: posts the ante 12KevinJA8FCP: posts the ante 12*** 3rd STREET ***Dealt to Larons [Jd]Dealt to edmo123 [Jh]Dealt to hoodini [Js]Dealt to KevinJA8FCP [4c 5h Kh]Dealt to Raise, Ha! [5s]Dealt to Phil Logan [7s]KevinJA8FCP: brings in for 18Raise, Ha!: calls 18Phil Logan: folds Larons: folds edmo123: folds hoodini: folds *** 4th STREET ***Dealt to KevinJA8FCP [4c 5h Kh] [6h]Dealt to Raise, Ha! [5s] [Qs]Raise, Ha!: checks KevinJA8FCP: checks *** 5th STREET ***Dealt to KevinJA8FCP [4c 5h Kh 6h] [Ts]Dealt to Raise, Ha! [5s Qs] [Kd]KevinJA8FCP: bets 120Raise, Ha! said, "wtf?"Raise, Ha!: folds Uncalled bet (120) returned to KevinJA8FCPKevinJA8FCP collected 108 from potKevinJA8FCP: doesn't show hand I am not claiming to be a good Razz player, but after the hand Raise, Ha was trying to tell me that betting there was bad and that I should have 'checked behind and seen what develops' I don't get why though? He did not raise when he entered the pot, so it is hard to give him credit for a great holding...right?? So how can he even call a bet with the Q and K now. If he does call, and I catch an A, 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, or J I have him board-locked, because on 6th, he can't have anything better than a Q low.I really am trying to understang Raise, Ha!'s point but I just dont get it. Can someone explain to me why checking would be the better play?

[scottyno 0]

it wouldnt, your bet is easily the best play, you know that no matter what he has you are decently far ahead and your hand is disguised to him. You should bet betting 5th in this case with any down cards, whether you have KKK or K45. He was probably just pissed that he had the best hand on 3rd, maybe even limped utg with a monster, and then it turned to crap and he had hoped to see a free card on 6th. Checking makes no sense for you because if you happen to draw bad and he draws good he could have the best hand, but its too hard for him to call you on 5th since the pot is small and he knows hes probably going to need to hit 2 cards to win.

[Pdiddydog 0]

it wouldnt, your bet is easily the best play, you know that no matter what he has you are decently far ahead and your hand is disguised to him. You should bet betting 5th in this case with any down cards, whether you have KKK or K45. He was probably just pissed that he had the best hand on 3rd, maybe even limped utg with a monster, and then it turned to crap and he had hoped to see a free card on 6th. Checking makes no sense for you because if you happen to draw bad and he draws good he could have the best hand, but its too hard for him to call you on 5th since the pot is small and he knows hes probably going to need to hit 2 cards to win.

This plus betting 4th would have been also ok since both of you have a face card and your 3 low could likely be better then Raise Ha's 3 low.

[XXEddie 0]

it wouldnt, your bet is easily the best play, you know that no matter what he has you are decently far ahead and your hand is disguised to him. You should bet betting 5th in this case with any down cards, whether you have KKK or K45. He was probably just pissed that he had the best hand on 3rd, maybe even limped utg with a monster, and then it turned to crap and he had hoped to see a free card on 6th. Checking makes no sense for you because if you happen to draw bad and he draws good he could have the best hand, but its too hard for him to call you on 5th since the pot is small and he knows hes probably going to need to hit 2 cards to win.

Thanks, scotty. This was excatly my thinking, that he was just mad that he drew bad. I did too though, I changed the HH. I actually had T6 in the hole and hit two pair.One more question scotty, since you are one of the best Razz players here. With a K, 3 Js and a 7 showing. If he is gonna come in, with a 5 showing, shouldn't he always raise considering all the other door cards?

[gouldjr27 0]

Maybe it is just me, but if I am "Raise, Ha" I am popping it on 3rd to see what kind of hand you brought it in with. It could define your hand, but at the same time possibly steal the pot. On your part, you had the best hand, why not bet?

[checkymcfold 0]

i would lead/cap fourth and all further streets.

[scottyno 0]

Thanks, scotty. This was excatly my thinking, that he was just mad that he drew bad. I did too though, I changed the HH. I actually had T6 in the hole and hit two pair.One more question scotty, since you are one of the best Razz players here. With a K, 3 Js and a 7 showing. If he is gonna come in, with a 5 showing, shouldn't he always raise considering all the other door cards?

the way i play i'd never be limping in his spot if i was going to play the hand, however a lot of players will limp utg in a spot like that if they have a 3 card wheel and there arent many other low cards to try and trap people later.